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Old 04-28-2017, 12:25 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
I think you will discover there are three tanks or one of the tanks has two compartments.

The air system should be plumbed with a wet tank first and then a front and rear tank. If your bus has an air operated door, air suspension, or air driver's seat you should have a fourth tank.

The wet tank should fill up first with the rear and front tanks filling next. The last tank to fill would be the fourth tank. Each tank will have a one way valve that allows air pressure to go only one direction. That way, if one tank or the related system should get a leak it won't suck down the air pressure in the other tanks.

It would appear as if you have gotten yourself a pretty nice little bus. The fact it isn't yellow means you have one less job you have to do.
Thanks Cowlitzcoach! It does have a air operated door/ driver's seat but I don't think it has air suspension. Could only identify 2 tanks in the front of the bus one was mounted parallel the other horizontal. Took a shot above the entryway of the emergency air release. Can I tap into any of this for the air tools?



I'm gonna crawl under again tomorrow with better lighting to take pictures to identify the tank configuration.
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Old 04-28-2017, 01:29 AM   #22
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Thanks Cowlitzcoach! It does have a air operated door/ driver's seat but I don't think it has air suspension. Could only identify 2 tanks in the front of the bus one was mounted parallel the other horizontal. Took a shot above the entryway of the emergency air release. Can I tap into any of this for the air tools?



I'm gonna crawl under again tomorrow with better lighting to take pictures to identify the tank configuration.
None of those lines are large enough to provide enough volume to run anything, even a tire inflator.

You do not want to tap into either the front or rear tank. You do NOT want to risk compromising your braking ability or efficiency. If you want to run some air tools install an air chuck on the 4th tank or a line with a chuck ending near the skirt. Just be aware that most vehicle air compressors were not designed and built to operate something like an impact wrench or grinder.

Much like trying to use the engine alternator to keep the house batteries charged up isn't such a good idea using the engine to turn an air compressor isn't such a good idea except for emergencies.
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Old 04-28-2017, 06:38 PM   #23
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Hi! Awesome bus! Quick question- Did this guy come smog certified? I'm in SoCal and trying to figure out what kinds of buses are smog certification exempt or smog compliant. Thanks!
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Old 04-29-2017, 12:30 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
None of those lines are large enough to provide enough volume to run anything, even a tire inflator.

You do not want to tap into either the front or rear tank. You do NOT want to risk compromising your braking ability or efficiency. If you want to run some air tools install an air chuck on the 4th tank or a line with a chuck ending near the skirt. Just be aware that most vehicle air compressors were not designed and built to operate something like an impact wrench or grinder.

Much like trying to use the engine alternator to keep the house batteries charged up isn't such a good idea using the engine to turn an air compressor isn't such a good idea except for emergencies.
Cowlitzcoach,
I agree, gonna just get a air compressor for now. Thanks for pointing out the risks.

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Originally Posted by justkate View Post
Hi! Awesome bus! Quick question- Did this guy come smog certified? I'm in SoCal and trying to figure out what kinds of buses are smog certification exempt or smog compliant. Thanks!
Hi Kate, great question for California!!

This bus did not come smog certified. That is why the dealer sold the bus at this price. He was not budging on price or anything else for that matter.
I thought this was odd but I wanted this bus so I put up with it. If it was smog certified it would have been $9k+ more.

I was not looking for a smog certified bus. The reason is that the DMV does not require it for private owners, even if you are registering as a bus. The DMV lady took one look at the paper stating that it was not certified and handed it back to me saying it was not needed.

Right now I'm on a race with time. After getting my temp registration yesterday I now have 30 days to convert or they send me commercial plates for a bus.

Working on a write up for this since there were so many questions on how to properly navigate the DMV / CHP.

The DMV does not normally get a lot of these so there is a learning curve. Don't take no for an answer and don't let them bounce you to CHP. If you get stuck in the DMV process somewhere pm me, I'll do my best to help.
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Old 05-02-2017, 11:23 PM   #25
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Finally getting some heavy lifting out of the way. Removed most of the seats. Found lots of sand, volcano dust, pieces of coral, few legos, and enough change to buy coffee.


No plywood, but most of the screws are completely worn down.



One seat left near the emergency exit.

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Old 05-03-2017, 09:02 AM   #26
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What! You took out the seating for 74 of your closest friends?

It looks like that floor is taking some serious scraping.
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Old 05-04-2017, 09:55 AM   #27
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Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
L.E.,
VERY nice bus. I have the same yr and wish it was as clean. I also wish I had the MD3060. Didn't know it was an option in '99. If/when my MT643 goes, I'll have to look at what's needed to use the MD 3060.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
The air system should be plumbed with a wet tank first and then a front and rear tank. If your bus has an air operated door, air suspension, or air driver's seat you should have a fourth tank.
Rear air suspension, air driver's, and air door; I have 5 air tanks. 3 up front and 2 in the rear. I haven't looked to see where the air lines go but seems excessive to me. Maybe it's front right brake, front left brake, rear right brake, rear left brake, and door, seat, & suspension? That would total 5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LincolnEcho View Post
This bus did not come smog certified. That is why the dealer sold the bus at this price. He was not budging on price or anything else for that matter.
I thought this was odd but I wanted this bus so I put up with it. If it was smog certified it would have been $9k+ more.
Did you say how much you paid for the bus? If you did, I missed it.
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Old 05-04-2017, 11:22 AM   #28
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L.E.,
VERY nice bus. I have the same yr and wish it was as clean. I also wish I had the MD3060. Didn't know it was an option in '99. If/when my MT643 goes, I'll have to look at what's needed to use the MD 3060.

Rear air suspension, air driver's, and air door; I have 5 air tanks. 3 up front and 2 in the rear. I haven't looked to see where the air lines go but seems excessive to me. Maybe it's front right brake, front left brake, rear right brake, rear left brake, and door, seat, & suspension? That would total 5.

Did you say how much you paid for the bus? If you did, I missed it.
I am not sure exactly how your tanks are plumbed but it most likely is plumbed with the wet tank, red tank, green tank, front accessory tank, and rear accessory tank.

Having two accessory tanks allows for faster operation of the accessories because you have the volume and pressure to move a lot of air. With a small tank, every time you opened or closed the service door the volume would reduce which would reduce the pressure to the point the compressor would kick back on. Same with the rear suspension--every time it adds to the air bag the tank volume would go down enough that the pressure would decrease to the point the compressor would kick on again. Large volumes require removing a lot of volume before the compressor kicks on again.

The compressor probably doesn't run less time but it would run fewer times. The reduction of cycles extends the life of the compressor and pressure switch.
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Old 05-04-2017, 11:28 AM   #29
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Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
I am not sure exactly how your tanks are plumbed but it most likely is plumbed with the wet tank, red tank, green tank, front accessory tank, and rear accessory tank.

Having two accessory tanks allows for faster operation of the accessories because you have the volume and pressure to move a lot of air. With a small tank, every time you opened or closed the service door the volume would reduce which would reduce the pressure to the point the compressor would kick back on. Same with the rear suspension--every time it adds to the air bag the tank volume would go down enough that the pressure would decrease to the point the compressor would kick on again. Large volumes require removing a lot of volume before the compressor kicks on again.

The compressor probably doesn't run less time but it would run fewer times. The reduction of cycles extends the life of the compressor and pressure switch.
Makes sense I guess. They are fairly small tanks. I'll have to check the manual but they certainly aren't painted red and green. Not sure about wet either. I haven't seen a seperator anywhere but then I haven't gone looking for one either. There is an air dryer mentioned in the manual tho.
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Old 05-04-2017, 11:37 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LincolnEcho View Post
...
Speaking of manuals...

Owner's Manual
http://www.centralstatesbus.com/1999...s/Ops_list.pdf

Service Manuals
Service Manuals for Blue Bird School Buses
https://www.centralstatesbus.com/2003_BBAA/a3mtocs.html

I have the individual sections downloaded. I also have the manuals all rolled up into one pdf. I received the same on CD directly from Blue Bird via snail mail. I might could figure out how to add you to MyDrive (google) but that would require some research. Anywho, if you need any of these and can't get them off the internet, give me a holler.
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Old 05-04-2017, 11:51 AM   #31
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Makes sense I guess. They are fairly small tanks. I'll have to check the manual but they certainly aren't painted red and green. Not sure about wet either. I haven't seen a seperator anywhere but then I haven't gone looking for one either. There is an air dryer mentioned in the manual tho.

The wet tank is the first tank. It is called the wet tank because it is hoped most of the moisture will fall out of the air in that tank and not go onto the other tanks.

The red and green tank are for the front and rear brakes (I can never remember which is which). The front and rear air systems are independent of each other so that if you lose air pressure to the front brakes you can still use the treadle valve to brake the bus with just the rear brakes. Exhausting all of the air out of the front tank won't set up the spring brake on the rear axle.

All of the tanks are equipped with one way valves so air pressure can go out from the compressor to them but if one tank should lose pressure it won't suck any of the other tanks down.
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Old 05-04-2017, 12:31 PM   #32
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Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
The wet tank is the first tank. It is called the wet tank because it is hoped most of the moisture will fall out of the air in that tank and not go onto the other tanks.
I figured as much.

Quote:
The red and green tank are for the front and rear brakes (I can never remember which is which). The front and rear air systems are independent of each other so that if you lose air pressure to the front brakes you can still use the treadle valve to brake the bus with just the rear brakes. Exhausting all of the air out of the front tank won't set up the spring brake on the rear axle.
Red, Right, Returning. Starboard (right) side side SHOULD be red. That said, it's probably the opposite.

Note to self: google treadle valve.
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Old 05-05-2017, 08:49 PM   #33
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What! You took out the seating for 74 of your closest friends?

It looks like that floor is taking some serious scraping.
That glue was not giving way! went through 2 heavy duty hand scrapers and one long handle scraper. Finally got most of the rubber floor out to find some superficial rust spots. Now I have 74 of my closest friends waiting for a ticket to ride on the one stubborn seat that refuses to come out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewerbob View Post
L.E.,
VERY nice bus. I have the same yr and wish it was as clean. I also wish I had the MD3060. Didn't know it was an option in '99. If/when my MT643 goes, I'll have to look at what's needed to use the MD 3060.

Rear air suspension, air driver's, and air door; I have 5 air tanks. 3 up front and 2 in the rear. I haven't looked to see where the air lines go but seems excessive to me. Maybe it's front right brake, front left brake, rear right brake, rear left brake, and door, seat, & suspension? That would total 5.

Did you say how much you paid for the bus? If you did, I missed it.
Thanks Brewerbob!! Don't know too much about the MD3060 except it has a 6th gear that has yet to be unlocked. From what I've read the MT643 issues appear very early on and usually replaced by Allison under warranty. If you're not experiencing hard shifting or locking up hopefully you've got a winner.

paid 6k plus tax for the bus. I thought it was semi-reasonable for the condition. Can't say I don't grin every time I'm on the bus working and someone drives by and asks "did you bring that here from Hawaii?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewerbob View Post
Speaking of manuals...

Owner's Manual
http://www.centralstatesbus.com/1999...s/Ops_list.pdf

Service Manuals
Service Manuals for Blue Bird School Buses
https://www.centralstatesbus.com/2003_BBAA/a3mtocs.html

I have the individual sections downloaded. I also have the manuals all rolled up into one pdf. I received the same on CD directly from Blue Bird via snail mail. I might could figure out how to add you to MyDrive (google) but that would require some research. Anywho, if you need any of these and can't get them off the internet, give me a holler.
I have been looking for this all over the internet. thank you!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
The wet tank is the first tank. It is called the wet tank because it is hoped most of the moisture will fall out of the air in that tank and not go onto the other tanks.

The red and green tank are for the front and rear brakes (I can never remember which is which). The front and rear air systems are independent of each other so that if you lose air pressure to the front brakes you can still use the treadle valve to brake the bus with just the rear brakes. Exhausting all of the air out of the front tank won't set up the spring brake on the rear axle.

All of the tanks are equipped with one way valves so air pressure can go out from the compressor to them but if one tank should lose pressure it won't suck any of the other tanks down.
Not seeing any identifiers on any of the tanks. I have to find a safe place that I can take it to get better shots of the underside.



Please keep posting your responses and advice, you have all been so helpful!! Thank you!!
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Old 05-05-2017, 09:03 PM   #34
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cowlitz - what would an extra large tank have been used for? on my DEV bus.. the air comes from the compressor discharge into the AD-4 air dryer.. then from the dryer it goes to a 3 partitioned tank.. presumably wet-1-2.

there is also an extra much Larger single tank that sits unconnected... when i got the bus the only thing hooked to it was the stop sign.. not even an air inlet.. both tanks look factory.. I pressure tested that l;arge tank by plugging the empty port with a shraeder and pumped it to 120 PSI with my shop compressor and it was still at 115 2 days later..

is that supposed to be my wet tank? and if so should it be before or after my air dryer? could it have been some sort of drying tank if the bus wasnt shipped with a dryer? (the bus is a 1990 chassis)..

-Christopher
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Old 05-06-2017, 07:47 AM   #35
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cowlitz - what would an extra large tank have been used for? on my DEV bus.. the air comes from the compressor discharge into the AD-4 air dryer.. then from the dryer it goes to a 3 partitioned tank.. presumably wet-1-2.

there is also an extra much Larger single tank that sits unconnected... when i got the bus the only thing hooked to it was the stop sign.. not even an air inlet.. both tanks look factory.. I pressure tested that l;arge tank by plugging the empty port with a shraeder and pumped it to 120 PSI with my shop compressor and it was still at 115 2 days later..

is that supposed to be my wet tank? and if so should it be before or after my air dryer? could it have been some sort of drying tank if the bus wasnt shipped with a dryer? (the bus is a 1990 chassis)..

-Christopher
A tank hooked to the stop paddle would be the 4th tank.

There must be some line hooked to it for a feed line, even if it was a tire valve so it could be easily pumped up with shop air. I think you will find a line going into it on the top somewhere where you can't see it.
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Old 05-08-2017, 07:05 AM   #36
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Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by LincolnEcho View Post
That glue was not giving way! went through 2 heavy duty hand scrapers and one long handle scraper. Finally got most of the rubber floor out to find some superficial rust spots. Now I have 74 of my closest friends waiting for a ticket to ride on the one stubborn seat that refuses to come out.
Two words; angle grinder!!

Quote:
Thanks Brewerbob!! Don't know too much about the MD3060 except it has a 6th gear that has yet to be unlocked. From what I've read the MT643 issues appear very early on and usually replaced by Allison under warranty. If you're not experiencing hard shifting or locking up hopefully you've got a winner.
No issues just no overdrive.

Quote:
paid 6k plus tax for the bus. I thought it was semi-reasonable for the condition. Can't say I don't grin every time I'm on the bus working and someone drives by and asks "did you bring that here from Hawaii?"
$6k is higher than I wanted to go sight unseen. But you were local to the bus so that helps. Still have Hawaii tags on it?

Quote:
I have been looking for this all over the internet. thank you!!
That is as good as it gets apparently. I was looking for something that showed the ABS sensor in detail. The CD version I got from Blue Bird had a picture but no assembly instructions. It simply slides out but I'm used to the auto FSM.
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Old 05-24-2017, 02:21 AM   #37
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Still at it

Iíve been busy gutting the bus for the CHP inspection, hereís a quick catch upÖ

Parking had become an issue. It got to the point that some lady on a battery-operated scooter came over to ask if it was my bus and proceeded to use colorful words to convey her displeasure and demanded I remove the bus from blocking her lovely view of other apartments. I tried to explain it was parked legally, but she wasnít having it. Her verbal onslaught just went on and on, so I moved it to a different spot fearing she may raise her level of crazy.

I took it to a mechanic that provided a list of things that need to be done. The biggest issues were the brakes and drums. After calling the dealer to let them know of the findings, I drove it to their repair facility so they can inspect the brakes. After the inspection, they decided to cover the brakes.

Theyíre working on the bus so it gives me some time to focus on non-skoolie stuff and catch you all up too.

Wet tank air hose: After researching how these systems work, and speaking with folks that work on these systems regularly, my conclusion is: Do not tap into any part of the bus air supply system unless you are sure of your skills in the event of a brake failure. Iím going to take a simpler route and snag an inexpensive compressor down the road.

Floor: Iím down to the glue and going through wire wheels like crazy. Open to ideaís on getting that glue off the floor. All the bolt and screw holes need to be patched with fiberglass.

Ceiling: All the ceiling panels and insulation has been removed. The plan is to prime it, add some roof flashing (as a radiant barrier and sound deadening) then some Ĺ inch insulation and cover it with some tongue and grove boards.

Walls: Iím not going to remove the wall panels, insulation, or windows for now. They will be primed and painted in the meantime.

Temporary facilities for CHP vin verification inspection: house power with batteries & plug out, lights, composting toilet (bucket), electric fridge, gas heater, gas stove, sink, fresh / grey water tanks and bed.
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Old 05-24-2017, 07:31 AM   #38
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Yes you can tap into the air system... here is how you do it..

you should have 3 tanks.. or should have a single tank with 3 sections on it...
you can tap into the 3rd tank... you install what is called a "protection valve" onto the tank and then come off of that valve with your accessories..

the protection valve's purpose is that if one of your accessories fails or leaks badly, the protection valve will not allow the air pressure to go below 60-80 PSI of air pressure which preserves your braking abilities....

protection valves is how air seats, and air ride rear suspensions, air door, air shutters, are connected to the bus air system properly.. and this is the approved way to do it.

-Christopher
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Old 05-24-2017, 10:17 AM   #39
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Yes you can tap into the air system... here is how you do it..

you should have 3 tanks.. or should have a single tank with 3 sections on it...
you can tap into the 3rd tank... you install what is called a "protection valve" onto the tank and then come off of that valve with your accessories..

the protection valve's purpose is that if one of your accessories fails or leaks badly, the protection valve will not allow the air pressure to go below 60-80 PSI of air pressure which preserves your braking abilities....

protection valves is how air seats, and air ride rear suspensions, air door, air shutters, are connected to the bus air system properly.. and this is the approved way to do it.

-Christopher
Not saying it can't be done by someone who knows what they are doing... Just that if anyone starting out is on the fence over this, stay on the safe side and get more familiarity of the bus systems before tapping into a critical system.
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Old 11-25-2017, 07:39 PM   #40
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Update

It’s been a while since my last post and it’s been one amazing adventure right after another.
Starting with a former Marine and his family. He painted the outside of the bus dessert tan, and helped me start the interior design. An Army veteran “Moose” and his charming girl helped to install the final key requirements that got me a “House Car” and smog exemption registered in California!! that was just the beginning.

I had committed to volunteering at the 2017 Solar Decathlon in Denver so “Helga” had to be ready for her first trip. At the Solar Decathlon I met so many amazing people that wanted to help my cause LincolnEcho.org Some of them former military themselves, shared their contacts and gave me so much advice to be able to help other veterans. The teams that participated all gave me tons of material to build the inside of the bus. Everything from pink foam insulation to radiant floor channel. The management office even donated 3 terminals that will allow homeless veterans to come onboard and communicate with their friends / family / V.A. doctor, print forms and grab a sandwich out of the fridge that was also donated along with a microwave oven. My new friends in Denver James & Steve helped build the inside framing / flooring and kitchen cabinet / storage. Still a lot of work left to do before I head to Montana next spring. James designed and built the area where the terminals will be installed.

So far “Helga” has been working good on the trip, she cruises around 70. I tried to get 6th gear unlocked but the shop could’t do it. They did check transmission and did a factory reset on it. I got the engine oil analyzed and changed, also ordered an air filter.

Thank you to everyone who has pitched in to get the project as far as it has, I appreciate all that you've done.


































More to come...
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