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Old 07-27-2018, 05:29 PM   #41
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So you are ok with a 30 amp cord with 2 male ends on it? That is how people get killed. Early cremation.



John





John
Ah yes. THIS is the kind of info I am looking for. So yes, that is clearly usafe. What about if itís hard wired directly into said box with an item like pictured? Then from there plugged into which ever power source is being used.
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Old 07-27-2018, 07:58 PM   #42
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You have to keep the dc and thee ac separate at all times.

Why don't you just go for an autotransfer switch and be done with it?

Forget my first suggestion altogether, you will get hurt or hurt someone eventually.

Your method would still allow backfeeds which are dangerous to humans and could take the grid down to an extent. And they will know who caused the outage or killed someone working on the system somewhere. You may have to pay for damage done to the transformers feeding the grid and God help you if anyone gets hurt.



Just feed the air conditioner once from your breaker panel and let the transfer switch do it's thing.
Get an electrician to do it right for you as I have this feeling you think you can do this and save a few bucks.
I have no more to offer you.



Good luck


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Old 07-27-2018, 08:37 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by BlackJohn View Post
You have to keep the dc and thee ac separate at all times.

Why don't you just go for an autotransfer switch and be done with it?

Forget my first suggestion altogether, you will get hurt or hurt someone eventually.

Your method would still allow backfeeds which are dangerous to humans and could take the grid down to an extent. And they will know who caused the outage or killed someone working on the system somewhere. You may have to pay for damage done to the transformers feeding the grid and God help you if anyone gets hurt.



Just feed the air conditioner once from your breaker panel and let the transfer switch do it's thing.
Get an electrician to do it right for you as I have this feeling you think you can do this and save a few bucks.
I have no more to offer you.



Good luck


John
There is a reason I am asking these questions. To prevent the doom and gloom you predict. To be clear I am not installing 12v to run anything from the generator or shore, is that the source of your concern?

I am hear for help, not to just shove a fork into the nearest outlet. Help is needed, and appreciated.
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Old 07-27-2018, 08:51 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Huskerbus View Post
There is a reason I am asking these questions. To prevent the doom and gloom you predict. To be clear I am not installing 12v to run anything from the generator or shore, is that the source of your concern?

I am hear for help, not to just shove a fork into the nearest outlet. Help is needed, and appreciated.



No dc I get, sorry. I misspoke meaning your gen needs to be connected separate from the ac source, panel. The panel needs to be connected to either or but not both sources at the same time. Thus a transfer switch.
Your cording solution allows a backfeed from the gen into the panel thereby making it hot when it shouldn't be.
Show us the air cond that you are using. I know you want simple and I told you how to do that safely. Then you countered with a solution of buying a cord that is not even produced to do the job.

Another way is a double pole, double throw switch to allow shore power or gen power depending on how the switch is thrown (made).
You may have to spend some money for these parts but it is the only sure safe way to do this job.


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Old 07-27-2018, 09:02 PM   #45
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No dc I get, sorry. I misspoke meaning your gen needs to be connected separate from the ac source, panel. The panel needs to be connected to either or but not both sources at the same time. Thus a transfer switch.
Your cording solution allows a backfeed from the gen into the panel thereby making it hot when it shouldn't be.
Show us the air cond that you are using. I know you want simple and I told you how to do that safely. Then you countered with a solution of buying a cord that is not even produced to do the job.

Another way is a double pole, double throw switch to allow shore power or gen power depending on how the switch is thrown (made).
You may have to spend some money for these parts but it is the only sure safe way to do this job.


John
Thank you for your continued help. Attached is hopefully helpful. I at no point will be capable of having the generator and shore power attached at the same time. As shown in the drawing, it will be running from shore. If I wanted to use generator, I would physically unplug the shore from the pedistal and walk back to the generator and plug it into that.

Is this safe, and usable?
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Old 07-27-2018, 09:14 PM   #46
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[QUOTE=Huskerbus;282995]Thank you for your continued help. Attached is hopefully helpful. I at no point will be capable of having the generator and shore power attached at the same time. As shown in the drawing, it will be running from shore. If I wanted to use generator, I would physically unplug the shore from the pedistal and walk back to the generator and plug it into that.

Is this safe, and usable?




Quick answer is firm "NO."


Why you ask?


When on the gen power, the air cond power lugs are connected back to the breaker panel. There is no separating them because there will be only one connection point in/at/on the air conditioner. So, the power from your
gen supply cable is also running back to the panel for ac. That is 30 amps going back and that can really hurt someone or equipment when that backfeeds on the neutral connection.


There is no simple way to do safely what you want and need. That I can see. Anyone else out there no anything?


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Old 07-27-2018, 09:17 PM   #47
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[QUOTE=BlackJohn;283001]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskerbus View Post
Thank you for your continued help. Attached is hopefully helpful. I at no point will be capable of having the generator and shore power attached at the same time. As shown in the drawing, it will be running from shore. If I wanted to use generator, I would physically unplug the shore from the pedistal and walk back to the generator and plug it into that.

Is this safe, and usable?




Quick answer is firm "NO."


Why you ask?


When on the gen power, the air cond power lugs are connected back to the breaker panel. There is no separating them because there will be only one connection point in/at/on the air conditioner. So, the power from your
gen supply cable is also running back to the panel for ac. That is 30 amps going back and that can really hurt someone or equipment when that backfeeds on the neutral connection.


There is no simple way to do safely what you want and need. That I can see. Anyone else out there no anything?


John
So is this where a safety device such as the auto switch you were referring to would help?
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Old 07-27-2018, 09:26 PM   #48
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[QUOTE=Huskerbus;283003]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJohn View Post

So is this where a safety device such as the auto switch you were referring to would help?

Yes, no backfeeds then, both sources are kept separate from each other and you only have to wire the air cond to the 15 amp breaker in the panel.

The gen will then feed the whole panel, not just the air cond, as you would like it to.

What you might do is add a 30 amp female twistlock as your shorepower panel feed. That would allow you to manually change from gen to pedestal and safe but really inconvenient at times.


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Old 07-27-2018, 09:42 PM   #49
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[QUOTE=BlackJohn;283005]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskerbus View Post


Yes, no backfeeds then, both sources are kept separate from each other and you only have to wire the air cond to the 15 amp breaker in the panel.

The gen will then feed the whole panel, not just the air cond, as you would like it to.

What you might do is add a 30 amp female twistlock as your shorepower panel feed. That would allow you to manually change from gen to pedestal and safe but really inconvenient at times.


John
Okay, getting somewhere. Iím fine spending the money to get this right, just not unnecessary money. Iíll do more research on the inclusion of the transfer switch. Thank you.
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:03 PM   #50
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So you are ok with a 30 amp cord with 2 male ends on it? That is how people get killed. Early cremation.



John

What he said.

I don't see a problem with your idea that your breaker box is plugged in to the generator, OR plugged in to the shore power - but you always wire the things you PLUG IN in with a male connector, and the SOURCES of power with a female plug. You never want a plug with 2 of the same connectors on it.

There are fancy switches and relays that will do it for you, but there's no reason you can't manually go outside, unplug from one source, and plug in to the other.
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:08 PM   #51
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Huskerbus, your plan here is to run the rooftop air isolated from your other systems? So it runs only from the gen or the shore power and not off an inverter right? I ask because if you are, I am in the same spot as you.

John, are you saying, if someone wanted o isolate their rooftop a/c from the other 120 system, an auto transfer switch would be the way to go?

Please correct my thoughts/ideas on this as I'm no expert:

Run 12/2 to transfer switch from a/c (is a breaker, independent of other system needed here since the shore and the generator have either a fuse or a breaker?)

Have male end come out of transfer switch near generator.

Connect male to gen or shore power and have a/c.

John, any thoughts on this? Huskerbus, is this what your trying to do?
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:15 PM   #52
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Huskerbus, your plan here is to run the rooftop air isolated from your other systems? So it runs only from the gen or the shore power and not off an inverter right? I ask because if you are, I am in the same spot as you.

John, are you saying, if someone wanted o isolate their rooftop a/c from the other 120 system, an auto transfer switch would be the way to go?

Please correct my thoughts/ideas on this as I'm no expert:

Run 12/2 to transfer switch from a/c (is a breaker, independent of other system needed here since the shore and the generator have either a fuse or a breaker?)

Have male end come out of transfer switch near generator.

Connect male to gen or shore power and have a/c.

John, any thoughts on this? Huskerbus, is this what your trying to do?
This is very much what I was getting at. Just looking to verify the safety of the setup.
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:21 PM   #53
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Same. My concern is with running the a/c directly from the generator and how the grounding is worked out.
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Old 07-28-2018, 05:30 AM   #54
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So Husker and Ninja, getting back to the discussion.
You both want manual and cheap way to run the air cond?


Well the a/cond can only have one permanent power feed tied into it wherever it gets located. So, if you don't mind the manual switching from gen power to grid power, a run of 10/3 cabtire SO type with a male end on it back to an area that has both access to the breaker panel and the gen itself.
From the gen then, plug in a similar cable but with a female end to go with the air cond feed you just installed.
From the breaker panel, connect another 10/3 cabtire SO to a designated breaker. Size of that breaker depends on the nameplate rating on the air cond itself. Likely 15 amps. might be more, 20 whatever. Using #10 cabtire allows for less resistance in the circuit to supply the air cond so it gets enough power and doesn't overheat like a smaller cable would tend to do with the cycling on and off, of the air cond.
This method allows manual connection for both power sources.
Naturally, the grid connection has its own ground by way of grounding the neutral conductor.
With gen usage, most gens have a ground lug on the frame. Use it and jumper from there to a temporary ground rod you put into the ground.

You might get away without this step, but then it is a safety feature to protect life and equipment. Your choice, I do this. Been laughed at for it but I will have the last laugh. That was just plain trolling and ignorance.


Transfer switches though operate a bit differently than I think you describe Ninja.
They are for switching the grid load over to the gen if a loss of grid occurs. And vice versa, your gen quits, the load goes back on the grid if available.
The benefits to me are constant power so you have heat, cooling, light, power, charging capability, refrigeration etc.
You might not always be at your bus so if your power is off for a length, you loose your food supplies in the fridge etc. You might freeze to death too. Lots of situations to consider.
Cost isn't that prohibitive to do it this way, but you need a gen that has electric start for certain, which might be a few more dollars but well worth it. Could be gas, diesel or propane so many options for that.


I hope this better explains my point of view and the safety aspect as well.
To further understand what I wrote, make a simple line diagram of what has been said in this post and it should become clear.



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Old 07-28-2018, 07:07 AM   #55
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Attached is hopefully helpful.
Please share your entire wiring diagram, that will help a great.

A single cord, manually switched system can work but it depends on the details. For example, a shore/generator power cord with male ends on it MIGHT be ok if you do not have an inverter. If you do, those male ends could be energized and could really mess up your day.
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Old 07-28-2018, 07:43 AM   #56
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Please share your entire wiring diagram, that will help a great.

A single cord, manually switched system can work but it depends on the details. For example, a shore/generator power cord with male ends on it MIGHT be ok if you do not have an inverter. If you do, those male ends could be energized and could really mess up your day.
I donít have one. My current goal, this year, is to just have the ability to use air conditioning. I have the generator, and a 15k ac unit.

I definitely see the error in my original thought of a double male. That will NOT be part of my plans.
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Old 07-29-2018, 09:20 PM   #57
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School bus #6 final resting spot! Time to become Busker!
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Old 02-02-2019, 07:28 PM   #58
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After my full late summer/fall was completely consumed by helping my parents dig a basement under their home and install a foundation, then winter, we finally got out today and got some great work done!

Half the seats have been removed! Floor under the rubber initially looks to be in great shape, but donít expect all to look like that.
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