First Post

[roach711]

Originally Posted by somewhereinusa

Gas heaters have a safety valve. If the fire goes out it shuts off the gas. Cook tops don't have that, they assume you won't be sleeping while you are cooking. Not only in it deadly to breathe, it will explode if it fills the surrounding area and something produces a spark. You also have an exposed open flame.

You've also got carbon monoxide to consider. I would be OK with heating with a cooktop burner, but only when I'm awake.

[yawnzzz...]

Thank you for bringing that to our attention. I was wondering when someone would say that.

[yawnzzz...]

Froze my ass off last night. That stock floor really holds in the heat.

I am going to treat, paint, and seal the rear bedroom area first.
This will give me some place to stay during the remainder of the
renovation.

living space after being torn out.


The old floor.

During the process I found some bus treasure. I found an aluminum penny, 2 quarters, 3 dimes, a chuckey cheese token.
Also I found a new old band aid still in the wrapper, and some used old band aids.

Has anyone ever had leaky windows? The water seems to puddle on the lower window , but I don't know if this is the point of entry for the water. I suspect it leaks in on the sides. Any Ideas? I am about to start filling the voids with caulk.

[bansil]

I have been fighting water leaks during prolonged rain, mine puddles up on the lower ledge and leaks in thru bottom and sides

The windows have like 1/2in foam which has hardened,I said screw taking windows out and used silicone to seal the lower sill and up the sides about and inch,I still have 2 small leaks I have found since we got a couple inches of rain in the last couple days it's a never ending battle

[yawnzzz...]

When you say sill do you mean under the window frame? Inside or the outside of the bus?

I'm contemplating removing the windows and resealing them.

I thought I had small leaks until I pulled up the floor. I found at least a gallon in the right rear corner.

This has been a real tragedy.

[browncrown]

[quote="yawnzzz..."]During the process I found some bus treasure. I found an aluminum penny, 2 quarters, 3 dimes, a chuckey cheese token.
Also I found a new old band aid still in the wrapper, and some used old band aids.quote]

I think these "bus treasure's" are a part of every build...I found all sorts of stuff and also came to the conclusion that 10 year old buble gum sticks better to the bus than Liquid Nails

[Shadoll]

Originally Posted by browncrown

Was going to say, all I found was bubble gum and mice droppings in the heater tube..

[yawnzzz...]

Those mice are a real pests. I have been at war with them for almost a week.
I got 2 mice 2 days in a row then nothing. I have trapped 1 mouse each day thereafter.
I have killed 7 thus far. I believe there will be more to come.
I have had the best luck near the brake pedal.

I have painted phosphoric acid in the rear half of the bus to counter act the rust.
Hopefully I can paint tomorrow.
Then I can start the project again up front.
Now I'm starting to tackle the leaking windows while the floor dries.

Will post some pics tonight.

[yawnzzz...]

Here are the products I will be using on the floor.


Here is what it looked like before the phosphoric.

And here it is after the treatment.

[Tango]

Just for reference --- the tannic acid based converters work substantially better than the phosphoric. There is one called "Restore" by Quest Chemical that I ran tests on for over five years in my business and could not get the treated metal to oxidize no matter what I threw at it. One advantage of this particular brand is that it forms its' own clear acrylic top coat when dry that is a good final finish. The others are only rated as primers and must be protected with some kind of paint over them in order to get the full benefits.

I mention this because I've seen a lot of folks work their a$$es off wire brushing the rust off their floors, then use the phos to treat it without painting over it before putting down their flooring. Not a good idea. Moisture will quickly penetrate the phos layer (just like any other primer) and you are back in the oxidation business in no time at all. Floors are especially demanding because they trap moisture and cannot breathe it out. Rubber flooring applied directly to metal (like in buses) is one of the worst possible combinations as many of you have no doubt noticed by now. Even galvanized metal can completely rust away in just a few years under those conditions. Even putting down a "moisture barrier" does little good because the water vapor that will form on the metal through condensation still has no place to go.

[LuckyChow]

Originally Posted by Tango

Just for reference --- the tannic acid based converters work substantially better than the phosphoric. There is one called "Restore" by Quest Chemical that I ran tests on for over five years in my business and could not get the treated metal to oxidize no matter what I threw at it. One advantage of this particular brand is that it forms its' own clear acrylic top coat when dry that is a good final finish. The others are only rated as primers and must be protected with some kind of paint over them in order to get the full benefits.

Tango, thank you for this information. It's very valuable and the sort of thing you won't get from a label! I've defaulted to POR-15 on my rusted substrates, but it's a bit pricey and unfortunately, not UV stable. And you're absolutely right about rubber over metal trapping moisture. I do not use any vapor barrier over bus floors. Too many things develop leaks over time and the moisture is trapped. I did not lay a moisture barrier under my engineered hardwood floor for this reason.

I've noticed that most school buses have a metal base floor with plywood over the top. Interestingly, the transits and the coaches do not. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but it does make you wonder.

[yawnzzz...]

Here It is with a fresh coat of primer.

Phosphoric acid converts rust Fe2O3 to ferric Phosphate FePO4.

I know the POR-15 is just phosphoric mixed with rustoleum. However It doesn't say this on the can.
You have to refer to M.S.D.S. for Por. When I looked It seemed to have a very low percentage of phosphoric acid.

The Prep and Etch Is 35 to 45 % phosphoric, and it is 15 dollars a gallon.

[lornaschinske]

Originally Posted by LuckyChow

... I've noticed that most school buses have a metal base floor with plywood over the top. Interestingly, the transits and the coaches do not...

Our BlueBird's floor is like the coach's floor was... thick metal with "rubber" flooring extremely well glued to the metal. I know the metal is thick (and heavy... ouch!) because we cut a rectangle out of the floor for the air return on the hydronic heat system. After having the rust bucket Eagle, I fully expected to be using copious amounts of Two Dogs' Homebrewed POR-15 on the BlueBird. I am so tickled that it was not needed. But I am hanging onto the recipe because you never know when you will need something like that... and I'm frugal enough to not want to spend the big bucks for the POR-15 when I have an alternative that is cheaper to make up as needed and works as well... or so Two Dogs said.

[LuckyChow]

Yawnzz, I think you've got that floor whipped now. You should be good to go (after the fumes leave). Unfortunately, I've see a couple of school systems "wash out" their buses before. I don't think they realize the problem they're causing down the road. Hopefully it is rare. I drove a school bus for 5 years back when I was in college. It didn't occur to me at the time what a no-no this was.

Lorna, I haven't seen the home-brew POR 15 you mentioned. I'll have to search for it.

[yawnzzz...]

Ya those school districts do more harm than good.

Before this build goes any further the rodent situation needs to be addressed. I have taken 10 mice thus far.
I believe the mice are migrating to the bus from the neighbors. They have what seems to be
a small scale flea market running full tilt. I believe all of their goods are acting as breeding grounds for mice.

I have managed to seal off the rear half of the bus from the rain. That was alot of impact screws.
8 per window and it only sealed the sides. The window sills still leak a bit but nothing major.
No more puddles on the floor.

Also I think I may have a haunted bus. Some spooky stuff has been happening. Has anyone else had strange things happen?
I am going to do some research on the early life of my bus, and see if this may actually be the case.

[Tango]

Had a fairly large population of field mice that were squatting in my bus when I first saw it in Utah. Any tiny little opening is an invitation and this bus had plenty of those. All you can do is try to seal them out but remember, they can go through anything they can squeeze their little skulls through and they find foam sealer positively yummy. I'm closing things off with steel.

I also removed at least 1100 pounds of mud dauber nests. Many inside what seemed like closed spaces (they can get in even smaller gaps). Heck, I've torn the sides off, ripped out the dash, removed the wheel wells and I'm still finding them.

Good luck, just seal it up best you can.

[keith]

ha tango put moth balls thoght out the bus,,because they don't like them and all put a few alkasscher tablets on the tires they blow up when they eat them( not the tires ) them,,,lol

[yawnzzz...]

Thanks for the information Keith. I will go to the pharmacy tomorrow and pick some up.

[nat_ster]

Originally Posted by yawnzzz...

The spiders do seem attracted to the propane. This may need further research.

I would like to see your pet tarantulas. They don't bother me like the small ones.

Also a name has been chosen for the bus and it is Green Bean.

So are Miskitos. I had a propane truck that had a leak. When ever I went near the truck, the Miskitos were unbearable.

Originally Posted by yawnzzz...

A granite counter would be nice, but I am leaning towards wood with a urethane finish.
Kind of like the tables in some restaurants.
Has anyone else tried this?

How about arborite. I have made a few odd shaped counter tops with it as a surface, and oak trim around the edges.

Nat

[lornaschinske]

Originally Posted by yawnzzz...

... Before this build goes any further the rodent situation needs to be addressed...

Mothballs and Bounce fabric softener sheets are what many RVers use.

How do I keep the "critters" out of my RV during storage?

The best method for keeping the critters out is to use mothballs. The trick to using the mothballs is NOT to scatter them (you'll spend a lot of time looking for "strays" if you do so). Purchase some inexpensive disposable bowls with lids and pour the mothballs into these containers. Poke holes in the containers, sufficient for air flow, but small enough to keep the mothballs "contained" as they diminish in size over time. Place these containers through out your RV, even underbelly storage compartments.

When it comes time to take your RV out of storage it is a simple matter of collecting the containers and airing out your RV.

Another item worth mentioning is the use of fabric softener dryer sheets. Place these inside drawers and cabinets. These are supposed to be good mice deterrents.

Here's some more uses for Bounce...

1. Put one in your dresser drawers to keep clothes smelling fresh

2. A sheet will repel mosquitoes on your patio. Hang a sheet when outdoors during the mosquito season.

3. Placing a sheet in your shoes or sneakers overnight, will help to deodorize them and as a result they will smell much better in the AM.

4. Towel dry your dog and then rub his fur with one to take away the wet dog smell.

5. Place a used fabric softener sheet under ski hats, helmets and other types of hats to keep hair from becoming flyaway when the hat is removed. The sheets can also be lightly brushed over hair that becomes flyaway on other occasions such as vigorous hair brushing.

6. A fragranced sheet can be used to freshen the air in your home. Place an individual sheet in a drawer, hang one in the closet, locker at the health club, locker at work or under the seat of your car or truck. Leave several in the RV or camper while it's in storage.

7. Eliminates static electricity from your television and computer screen. Fabric softener sheets are designed to help eliminate static cling, wipe your television and computer screen with a used sheet to keep dust from resettling. Only use dry and used sheets because the ingredients in new ones could be harmful to appliances and leave a smudgy residue.

8. A sheet can be used to dissolve soap scum from shower doors, and the tile walls. Clean the surfaces with a sheet.

9. A sewing needle run through a sheet prior to sewing, can prevent the thread from tangling.

10. A sheet left inside suitcase luggage or travel baggage can prevent musty odors. Place a single sheet inside the empty luggage before storing.

11. Fabric softener sheets are claimed to clean baked on foods from cooking pots and pans. Place a sheet in a pan, fill with water, let sit overnight. Next morning sponge it clean. The antistatic agent apparently weakens the bond between the stuck on food between the pot or pans surface. The fabric softening agents helps to soften the baked on food.

12. Placing a sheet at the bottom of the wastebasket, helps eliminate odors found in wastebaskets. Placing an individual sheet at the bottom of a laundry bag or hamper will accomplish the same results.

13. Collecting pet hairs. Rubbing the area with a sheet will magnetically attract all the loose hairs.

14. Eliminating static electricity from venetian blinds and window coverings. Wipe the blinds with a sheet is said to prevent dust from resettling.

15. Wiping up sawdust, on the shop workbench, from drilling or sandpapering is easy. A used sheet will collect sawdust like a tack cloth.

16. They will take the odor out of books and photo albums that don't get opened too often.

17. Placing them in the air vents of your vehicle will freshen it up.

18. Carry a dryer sheet in your purse for those days when clothes suffer from static cling. Take the dryer sheet and rub it on the inside of your clothes and they will not stick to you anymore.

19. Buff chrome to a brilliant shine After chrome is cleaned, it can still look streaky and dull, but whether it’s your toaster or your hubcaps, you can easily buff up the shine with a used dryer softener sheet.

20. Renew grubby stuffed toys Wash fake-fur stuffed animals in the washing machine set on gentle cycle, then put the stuffed animals into the clothes dryer along with a pair of old tennis shoes and a fabric softener sheet, and they will come out fluffy and silky-soft.

21. Consolidate sheets and make them smell pretty To improve sheet storage, store the sheet set in one of the matching pillowcases, and tuck a new dryer fabric softener sheet into the packet for a fresh fragrance.

22. You can place them in picnic baskets to keep ants away, or under lawn furniture. You can even try sticking them in crevices throughout your home to deter ants from entering the house.

23. A dampened fabric softener sheet works extremely well for removing bugs and tree sap from vehicle exteriors. Simply wet down your car and use the dryer sheet over bug spots or moisten a fabric softener sheet and gently rub off tree sap stains from vehicle.

24. Place one sheet of Bounce in a warm basin of water and soak feet for about ten minutes.

25. Many mailmen keep them in their mail bags to keep yellow jackets away, and golfers keep them in their golf bags to keep bees away.

26. Use in the dryer to freshen and soften clothes.

BTW, I don't use fabric softener sheets. And I use the repeating bucket mouse trap