Has anyone thought or built a hydraulic levelling system for their Schoolie?

[JESUSBUS]

I am about to purchase a Schoolbus, and one of my ideas is to install a four point hydraulic jack system so you can quickly level the bus at any campsite up to two feet of elevation differentiation. Kind of like what Indy Cars use in the pits, but a bit slower. I'd like to improvise four bottle jacks and convert them so that they can be inverted and attached to the frame rails near the front and rear axles, and plumb hard line between them with a common hydraulic pump, and a self levelling mechanism, so that you simply get out, and put down some blocking pads and flip a switch and the entire unit self jacks and levels the entire rig. It is sort of complicated, but definitely not impossible. What do you all think?

[Danjo]

Easy to scavenge off an old RV.

[mmoore6856]

it will add quite a bit of weight to a single axle bus. would be nice but you cannot exceed the limits on the tires and axles

[DeMac]

[QUOTE=JESUSBUS;458624]
Has anyone thought or built a hydraulic levelling system for their Schoolie?

These members did.

Soujourner
ol trunt
GreyCoyote

Probably more. Just what I remember.

[JESUSBUS]

I am not sure what you are saying, but four bottle jacks probably weigh 30 pounds each. That's 120 pounds total, which is negligable compared to the GVW (gross vehicle weight of the entire school bus).

[JESUSBUS]

Originally Posted by mmoore6856

it will add quite a bit of weight to a single axle bus. would be nice but you cannot exceed the limits on the tires and axles

There is no such thing as a 'single axle bus' a bus has four axles.

[Rwnielsen]

Originally Posted by JESUSBUS

There is no such thing as a 'single axle bus' a bus has four axles.

Wow. Where'd that come from?

[Sehnsucht]

I think you mean two axles... Three if you're talking about a motorcoach. But sometimes people refer to a single axle versus dual axle because that's the primary determining factor if we're talking about a school bus, shuttle or motorcoach.

And I think MMoore6856 meant that you want to make sure the bottle jacks you use are rated for the maximum weight of your bus. You're also going to need to be smart about where you mount them because as they lift that puts all (well, arguably 25% each) of the bus's weight on a single point so it needs to be an appropriate and strong enough spot.

I wouldn't get too exotic with the leveling kit. You can scavenge a leveling kit off an old RV or buy the entire setup new for not a lot of money. There are several price points for these with the biggest determining factor I see as being how one-touch you want it to be. Self-leveling requires extra sensors and logic and also can be more likely to glitch at the worst possible time.

Also be aware if going used the seals in the pistons like to go bad, dry up, seize up, etc. So if you go used plan to rebuild the pistons. I have to do this on at least two of the four on mine plus find a leaky hydraulic hose. Just one of the many endless repairs and maintenance on an RV or skoolie.

They really are just money pits.

[Rwnielsen]

My bus came with a leveling system that's been largely unused for the last 16 or so years. One of the rams has a bad seal and I think all 4 should be gone through. On the plus side, they will lift the entire 40' bus 3" off the ground.

[JESUSBUS]

Originally Posted by Sehnsucht

Also be aware if going used the seals in the pistons like to go bad, dry up, seize up, etc. So if you go used plan to rebuild the pistons. I have to do this on at least two of the four on mine plus find a leaky hydraulic hose. Just one of the many endless repairs and maintenance on an RV or skoolie.

They really are just money pits.

I can see the seals drying out if not used often, or blowing out if the ram is undersized for the application. I know a lot about fabrication/machining/welding, so I thought I would rig up a hydraulic system with hard lines all the way to decrease the chances of hoses blowing out. I think the hardest part would be to find some sort of proportioning valve that automatically gives feedback to the cylinders so that it self levels. I'll have to look around at some websites to see what is available.

[HamSkoolie]

Originally Posted by JESUSBUS

There is no such thing as a 'single axle bus' a bus has four axles.

You've stated an absolute. There is only one absolute that can be true and that is that "There are no absolutes".


Depending on how you define "axle" a bus can have one, two, three, four, or even more axle's.
Drive axles with a differential typically have two axle shafts. but the axle itself is generally considered a single axle. If one considers each shaft a separate axle then one could count such a mechanism as two axles but it is more accurately described as an axle with two axle shafts.
Most front ends do not contain axles though four wheel drive vehicles do and those axles are generally (in buses) similar to the rear axle with two axle shafts though fronts include additional components to allow for steering. Most others contain a SPINDLE on each position to which the brakes and wheel are mounted. Spindles are mounted to a variety of different structures depending on the manufacturer and the vehicle size/type. Tor instance, many heavy duty Ford vehicles utilize a twin I beam suspension in which two I Beams pass across the front of the vehicle and a spindle is mounted to each.
Now, if there is no need to steer a particular set of tires, for instance on trailers or a front wheel drive arrangement, two spindles mounted on a cross member (sometimes a structural one) is generally considered an axle. Such arrangements however are not found on buses with the possible exception of very large buses with what is known as a "tag" axle in the rear position and generally ahead of the rear drive axle.

So, in closing. There are MANY single axle buses and most buses are, indeed, single axle with two spindles on the front and a single axle in the rear that contains two axle shafts.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by HamSkoolie

You've stated an absolute. There is only one absolute that can be true and that is that "There are no absolutes".


Depending on how you define "axle" a bus can have one, two, three, four, or even more axle's.
Drive axles with a differential typically have two axle shafts. but the axle itself is generally considered a single axle. If one considers each shaft a separate axle then one could count such a mechanism as two axles but it is more accurately described as an axle with two axle shafts.
Most front ends do not contain axles though four wheel drive vehicles do and those axles are generally (in buses) similar to the rear axle with two axle shafts though fronts include additional components to allow for steering. Most others contain a SPINDLE on each position to which the brakes and wheel are mounted. Spindles are mounted to a variety of different structures depending on the manufacturer and the vehicle size/type. Tor instance, many heavy duty Ford vehicles utilize a twin I beam suspension in which two I Beams pass across the front of the vehicle and a spindle is mounted to each.
Now, if there is no need to steer a particular set of tires, for instance on trailers or a front wheel drive arrangement, two spindles mounted on a cross member (sometimes a structural one) is generally considered an axle. Such arrangements however are not found on buses with the possible exception of very large buses with what is known as a "tag" axle in the rear position and generally ahead of the rear drive axle.

So, in closing. There are MANY single axle buses and most buses are, indeed, single axle with two spindles on the front and a single axle in the rear that contains two axle shafts.

in the school bus world there are definitely no absolutes.. there are so many Zany Spec's by district its crazy.. about time i thought ive seen it all.. i see something new

[Rwnielsen]

1) Machinery. the pin, bar, shaft, or the like, on which or by means of which a wheel or pair of wheels rotates.
2) the spindle at either end of an axletree.
3) an axletree

[/flogging]

I would love to make my levelers more automatic. Currently, I have hydraulic lines coming inside to a set of control arms. There's a separate panel with on/off and indicator lights to show you the low point. It's tedious to use and that's how I found out I could lift the whole bus off the ground. I've seen systems in high end coaches where you simply turn them on and the controller takes it from there. That would be ideal (with some form of ignition interlock or alarm).

[Rucker]

Originally Posted by JESUSBUS

I am about to purchase a Schoolbus, and one of my ideas is to install a four point hydraulic jack system so you can quickly level the bus at any campsite up to two feet of elevation differentiation. Kind of like what Indy Cars use in the pits, but a bit slower. I'd like to improvise four bottle jacks and convert them so that they can be inverted and attached to the frame rails near the front and rear axles, and plumb hard line between them with a common hydraulic pump, and a self levelling mechanism, so that you simply get out, and put down some blocking pads and flip a switch and the entire unit self jacks and levels the entire rig. It is sort of complicated, but definitely not impossible. What do you all think?

I like your thinking, but in my mind it goes in the same category as tilt-a-whirl solar panels (no payback), windmills (no such thing as perpetual motion), recirculating showers and 4x4 conversions (they don't work and only encourage you to get into trouble). Save the engineering for the more practical challenges of a bus conversion.

I rented an RV for a few weeks and did a road trip. Only once did I run into a situation where I couldn't find a fairly level spot, but keeping the rig from bouncing seems like a good thing.

I like the idea of just stabilizing the back end. I think I could do that with a couple of scissor jacks-they wouldn't be to lift the back end, just hold it so things didn't move around as much when parked.

[sportyrick]

JESUSBUS: My thoughts are by the time you get done with a central pump, reservoir, hard lines, hoses, 4 valves, mounts that either swivel up or shorter stroke cylinders, pads on the ends of the cylinders, electrical lines to pump and valves, the whole kitten caboodle your looking at #1000.

[Iceni John]

It may not be the best idea to have a four-point jacking system. A three-point system (two rear and one front) will ensure that no twisting forces are transmitted to the frame and body. Some Eagle owners found this out the hard way when their windshields popped out after they deployed their four-point levelers.

John

[Sehnsucht]

I don't disagree but were these Eagles body-on-frame or unibody? Both can certainly twist if too much force is applied unevenly but in my mind a frame rail mounted lift/leveler shouldn't translate enough torsion to deform the body and result in the windshield detachment although I can certainly imagine this happening with a unibody coach which many are today. But as Rucker also pointed out, stabilizing isn't the same as lifting so if you park on reasonably level ground to begin with you're only looking to isolate the coach from its own suspension flex, not get the wheels off the ground. Now if there's an expectation for a lot of unlevel terrain parking, I get the appeal of a one-touch lift-and-level but personally I'd rather use parking blocks and drive low tires up close to level, also blocks under the levelers to make up the gap. There would be nothing more unnerving to me than being jolted awake in the middle of the night when a leveler fails and the whole coach drops like a foot and/or teeters unbalanced while I regain my sense of composure, dress, and head into the dark of night to deal with the matter.

[Absentee]

I havent found a need to "level" my bus, you may not either, give it a chance see how it goes prior to going through all of this, your talking, hyd pumps, pressure switches, lines and much more. Seems like a lot of work for something not really needed.

[ol trunt]

Absentee's advice is probably well taken--give it a try first. I was prompted to add a 4 point hydraulic lift/stabilizing system after a miserable night in the last available slot in KOA park. The pad both sloped and tilted making us feel like a couple of drunks as we tried to move about in the bus. I find that most pads are fairly level so I rarely deploy the jacks unless it is windy. The wind buffets the bus back and forth and leaves me sea sick after a while--the jacks stop that.

I should mention that I have a car alarm tucked up under the dash that sounds the instant I turn the ignition on when any of the jacks are deployed. It's sort of annoying but then I can't remember needing to turn the ignition on unless I was ready to travel.
Jack

[HamSkoolie]

We are looking at putting four scissors on our frame. Each has a 7,500 pound capacity for a combined capacity of 30,000 pounds and our bus has a 31,800 GVWR which we don't expect to get near. In use we plan to leave most of the weight on the suspension and lift only enough to level and stabilize.