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Old 08-10-2017, 04:33 PM   #41
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 15,827
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
I definitelt concur... it seems my bus' sweet spot is running in 5th gear.. in 6th even the slightest incline and i lose power.. and im guessing harder on the engine too.. im told "lugging" is when the engine fails to gain speed at 100% throttle.. now no one can tell me if there are RPM limits to lugging or not.. as semi drivers, run buried up mountains all day and dont rip rod bearings out of their rigs.. however they are shifted down and at a bit higher RPM... if I bury my throttle of course i'll downshift to 4th at anything 64 and under which puts me right above the max HP of the engine..

if I re-gear my bus to a 3.90 then im going to be sitting between. at 64 id be in 5th and at 2000 RPM or so and 4th couldnt operate at that speed.. but id have a lot better power in 1-4 for getting up to speed in traffic.. with my 4th gear locked i can maintain good speed up pretty decent grades even with the little powerplant I have.. even though I have "7.3" litres.. it doesnt hold a candle to the inline 6 cylinder diesels for pure brute and torque
-Christopher

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Old 08-11-2017, 08:46 AM   #42
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
even though I have "7.3" litres.. it doesnt hold a candle to the inline 6 cylinder diesels for pure brute and torque
-Christopher
How do you feel about the N14. That oughta get me up a hill. No idea if it would fit.
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Old 08-11-2017, 09:25 AM   #43
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winlcok, WA
Posts: 2,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewerbob View Post
I want productive on level ground and enough of a ceiling to go up the hill at the same speed. At least the same gear.

The TDI is almost as bad when driven at 50~55mph. Any hill kills it. At 70+, I can run up a hill without downshifting if I keep my foot in it. At the 50~55, I end up downshifting 2 gears and floored. The bus just doesn't hit the 70 within the 2500 rpm. If I'm running the bus at 65 it does better on the hills than running at 55.

I really need to find the official BB max rpm and mark the tach so I don't forget.
The ISC is electronically controlled so you do have a max RPM limiter. There is also most likely a max speed limiter that regardless of the RPM it won't allow for any faster speeds. Even going downhill!

Generally speaking the redline is most likely in the 2600-2800 RPM neighborhood. The big engines like the DD Series 60, Cummins ISX, etc. have redlines in the 2100 neighborhood with full power and torque coming on as low as 1300 RPM's. At such low speeds there isn't much reason to be screaming at 2100 RPM's.
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Old 08-11-2017, 09:46 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Bolt View Post
I just signed the papers on our new bus! 2002 International with a dt530 and only 76,000 miles. More details to come.

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That is one SERIOUS bus!

Somehow I don't think that bus sold for under $4,000.00. I have seen buses of that vintage, size, and power package advertised with prices in excess of $50K!

The DT530 is a serious engine. It had power options as high as 350 HP. The biggest handicap for that bus with that engine is going to be the same as any RE bus--adequate cooling! It isn't specifically your bus but all rear engine buses have a problem with getting enough air flow over the radiator to keep things cool. Trying to move cool air from a low pressure area to a high pressure area is a physics problem that has yet to be solved adequately by any bus OEM.

When the engine is up front and the movement of the bus forward pushes air through the radiator cooling off the engine is pretty simple and straight forward. In that case you don't need a radiator that is as large or sophisticated fan systems to move air across the radiator.

IC tried to solve the RE cooling issue by mounting the radiator at the back of the bus and making the setup a mirror image of the front engine cooling system. It actually worked really well. The rear mounted radiator was moved to the side in newer models because of complaints from techs that didn't like having to do almost all of the work through a side panel. Personally, since the side access was very open and easy access and with everything except the drive belts out in the open I never understood the problem. And the drive belts were not any harder to access than the same engine in an FE bus.

To be fair, my favorite bus is a Crown with a mid-mount engine. The access to a mid-mount engine is about the same as an IC RE with a rear mount radiator.

I think you have found one of the unicorn buses and you should be very pleased with your purchase. Even with a large crew towing a large towed you shouldn't have any problems going down the road except for on the really long and steep grades one finds in the mountains in the west.

One of the things you need to get for your bus is the Line Setting Ticket--the birth certificate for your bus. It will spell out every option that was chosen to build that bus. I think that in addition to the big engine with the big transmission you will find that there are additional "big" options that went with that power package. Things like 9" brakes in front with 11" brakes in the rear instead of 7" brakes in front and 9" brakes in the rear. 36/36 size rear brake cans instead of 30/30 or even 27/27 brake cans. It may have the engine retarder for auxiliary braking. It most probably has rear air suspension, it may have front air suspension. It most likely has the heaviest duty front and rear axles. It most likely has the oversize cooling system for the engine and transmission with appropriately sized fan system. All of those sorts of items will be listed specifically on the LST. It will make finding repair parts much easier in the future if you get the LST.

All I can say is you have found on of the unicorn buses! Good luck and happy trails to you!
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Old 08-11-2017, 09:56 AM   #45
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cumins
Accelerator Maximum Vehicle Speed
Specify the maximum speed the vehicle can operate while using the foot accelerator on level road. The range is between 30 and 130 mph

https://cumminsengines.com/powerspec...and-parameters
Can I have the 130mph one please?

Quote:
Engine Performance Maximum Switched Engine Speed - Parameter

1000 - 3000 rpm
3000 rpm
https://cumminsengines.com/powerspec...and-parameters
So speed and rpm limited; Max being 130 and 3k?
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Old 08-11-2017, 10:53 AM   #46
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 321
Year: 2003
Engine: DT530
Rated Cap: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
That is one SERIOUS bus!

Somehow I don't think that bus sold for under $4,000.00. I have seen buses of that vintage, size, and power package advertised with prices in excess of $50K!

The DT530 is a serious engine. It had power options as high as 350 HP. The biggest handicap for that bus with that engine is going to be the same as any RE bus--adequate cooling! It isn't specifically your bus but all rear engine buses have a problem with getting enough air flow over the radiator to keep things cool. Trying to move cool air from a low pressure area to a high pressure area is a physics problem that has yet to be solved adequately by any bus OEM.

When the engine is up front and the movement of the bus forward pushes air through the radiator cooling off the engine is pretty simple and straight forward. In that case you don't need a radiator that is as large or sophisticated fan systems to move air across the radiator.

IC tried to solve the RE cooling issue by mounting the radiator at the back of the bus and making the setup a mirror image of the front engine cooling system. It actually worked really well. The rear mounted radiator was moved to the side in newer models because of complaints from techs that didn't like having to do almost all of the work through a side panel. Personally, since the side access was very open and easy access and with everything except the drive belts out in the open I never understood the problem. And the drive belts were not any harder to access than the same engine in an FE bus.

To be fair, my favorite bus is a Crown with a mid-mount engine. The access to a mid-mount engine is about the same as an IC RE with a rear mount radiator.

I think you have found one of the unicorn buses and you should be very pleased with your purchase. Even with a large crew towing a large towed you shouldn't have any problems going down the road except for on the really long and steep grades one finds in the mountains in the west.

One of the things you need to get for your bus is the Line Setting Ticket--the birth certificate for your bus. It will spell out every option that was chosen to build that bus. I think that in addition to the big engine with the big transmission you will find that there are additional "big" options that went with that power package. Things like 9" brakes in front with 11" brakes in the rear instead of 7" brakes in front and 9" brakes in the rear. 36/36 size rear brake cans instead of 30/30 or even 27/27 brake cans. It may have the engine retarder for auxiliary braking. It most probably has rear air suspension, it may have front air suspension. It most likely has the heaviest duty front and rear axles. It most likely has the oversize cooling system for the engine and transmission with appropriately sized fan system. All of those sorts of items will be listed specifically on the LST. It will make finding repair parts much easier in the future if you get the LST.

All I can say is you have found on of the unicorn buses! Good luck and happy trails to you!
Thank you for all of the great information. Do you know where I can get ahold of the LST? We are very happy with the bus thus far. We hope to create many great memories over the coming years with it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
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Old 08-11-2017, 11:12 AM   #47
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Blue Bird makes it easy but that won't help you much.
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:01 PM   #48
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,405
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
That is one SERIOUS bus!

Somehow I don't think that bus sold for under $4,000.00. I have seen buses of that vintage, size, and power package advertised with prices in excess of $50K!

The DT530 is a serious engine. It had power options as high as 350 HP. The biggest handicap for that bus with that engine is going to be the same as any RE bus--adequate cooling! It isn't specifically your bus but all rear engine buses have a problem with getting enough air flow over the radiator to keep things cool. Trying to move cool air from a low pressure area to a high pressure area is a physics problem that has yet to be solved adequately by any bus OEM.

When the engine is up front and the movement of the bus forward pushes air through the radiator cooling off the engine is pretty simple and straight forward. In that case you don't need a radiator that is as large or sophisticated fan systems to move air across the radiator.

IC tried to solve the RE cooling issue by mounting the radiator at the back of the bus and making the setup a mirror image of the front engine cooling system. It actually worked really well. The rear mounted radiator was moved to the side in newer models because of complaints from techs that didn't like having to do almost all of the work through a side panel. Personally, since the side access was very open and easy access and with everything except the drive belts out in the open I never understood the problem. And the drive belts were not any harder to access than the same engine in an FE bus.

To be fair, my favorite bus is a Crown with a mid-mount engine. The access to a mid-mount engine is about the same as an IC RE with a rear mount radiator.

I think you have found one of the unicorn buses and you should be very pleased with your purchase. Even with a large crew towing a large towed you shouldn't have any problems going down the road except for on the really long and steep grades one finds in the mountains in the west.

One of the things you need to get for your bus is the Line Setting Ticket--the birth certificate for your bus. It will spell out every option that was chosen to build that bus. I think that in addition to the big engine with the big transmission you will find that there are additional "big" options that went with that power package. Things like 9" brakes in front with 11" brakes in the rear instead of 7" brakes in front and 9" brakes in the rear. 36/36 size rear brake cans instead of 30/30 or even 27/27 brake cans. It may have the engine retarder for auxiliary braking. It most probably has rear air suspension, it may have front air suspension. It most likely has the heaviest duty front and rear axles. It most likely has the oversize cooling system for the engine and transmission with appropriately sized fan system. All of those sorts of items will be listed specifically on the LST. It will make finding repair parts much easier in the future if you get the LST.

All I can say is you have found on of the unicorn buses! Good luck and happy trails to you!
Guy was asking if he should buy one last week. They had 3 and were asking around 4 grand each. We told him to GO BUY IT but someone beat him to them, naturally.
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Old 08-11-2017, 11:08 PM   #49
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winlcok, WA
Posts: 2,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Bolt View Post
Thank you for all of the great information. Do you know where I can get ahold of the LST? We are very happy with the bus thus far. We hope to create many great memories over the coming years with it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Any Navistar International Truck or IC Bus dealer can access the information and get it for you.

Some will do it for free. Others will charge you for it.

Regardless, it is well worth a few $$$ to get it for your files.
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Old 08-14-2017, 08:10 AM   #50
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
Regardless, it is well worth a few $$$ to get it for your files.
Some will charge you more than a few. $125 for a Blue Bird service center. Not bad for 5 minutes of work and some dead trees.
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Old 08-14-2017, 11:11 AM   #51
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 321
Year: 2003
Engine: DT530
Rated Cap: 84
I just left the international dealer. They printed the LST for me at no charge. I will be posting it later today on my build thread A Bus Named Eternity.

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Old 08-14-2017, 11:48 AM   #52
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Free is good.
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