IH CE-SB Conversion begins

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by Zork

Is that good or bad?

It's good for climbing hills or towing heavy weights, bad for highway travel. If you have a 2000-series transmission like mine (5th gear is top gear) you'll be revving pretty high at 65 mph, around 2500 RPM. A nice cruising RPM is 1800 which you'll hit at around 48 mph. You can get it swapped for something higher (numerically lower, maybe something below 4.0) which will let you go faster at lower RPMs. It seems it would cost in the vicinity of two grand at a shop, cheaper if you can DIY.

I think I'll swap mine at some point in the future, but for now it's actually a really good gearing since the driving I do is actually pretty hilly.

[Zork]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

It's good for climbing hills or towing heavy weights, bad for highway travel. If you have a 2000-series transmission like mine (5th gear is top gear) you'll be revving pretty high at 65 mph, around 2500 RPM. A nice cruising RPM is 1800 which you'll hit at around 48 mph. You can get it swapped for something higher (numerically lower, maybe something below 4.0) which will let you go faster at lower RPMs. It seems it would cost in the vicinity of two grand at a shop, cheaper if you can DIY.

I think I'll swap mine at some point in the future, but for now it's actually a really good gearing since the driving I do is actually pretty hilly.

Why not just unlock the 6th gear on the tranny?

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by Zork

Why not just unlock the 6th gear on the tranny?

You can do that if you have an MD 3060, but not with a 2000-series. As I understand it, the 2000-series physically has a sixth gear but it requires additional hardware to enable it in addition to reprogramming.

[cadillackid]

the 2000 series transmissions prior to year 2006 require fairly extensive modifications to achieve 6th gear.. they require a valve body, some wiring mods and a new program... poreferrably you run them on a 4th gen TCM.. its pretty cost prohibitive (a couple grand) by the time you are done at the very least..


ive never been given any explanation by anyone who has qworked for allison why the 2000 series and 1000 series wewre built to be 5 speeds when the drums, clutches, and gears are all there for 6.. (they share a similar planetary design to the 3000 (world series)). the 3000's were around about 5 years prior to the 1k/2k coming out.



I had once thought that driveshaft speeds or tailshaft bearings might be a factor however the tailshaft bearings are shared across many allison transmissions..



generally speaking you dont want a driveshaft speed any higher than 4000 RPM.. in a heavy duty multi piece setup with larger diameter shafts, bigger U joints and such even a reasonably balanced setup can result in vibrations and harmonics..



with the 2600 RPM redline engines you are right close to that limit if you have 6th gear.. when the allison 1k/2k were introduced they were offered in pickup truck applications where ther engines rev to 3000 or more so im guessing the choice to avoid 6th gear was based on keeping driveshaft speeds slower.. of course racing and special built driveshafts are designed to spin a lot faster than 4000 RPM.. but chevy was putting duramaxxes and later 8.1 gas engines in box trucks... and 454 engines were available in school busses, while ive never personally seen a 1000/2000 mated to a 454 school bus im guessing the discussion was had at design time..

[Zork]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

You can do that if you have an MD 3060, but not with a 2000-series. As I understand it, the 2000-series physically has a sixth gear but it requires additional hardware to enable it in addition to reprogramming.

It is my understanding that my 2500 can in fact be unlocked for 6th gear. It requires TCM programming for the unlock but I think whomever has the software from Allison needs permission from them to do so. My bus is a 2008 model.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Zork

It is my understanding that my 2500 can in fact be unlocked for 6th gear. It requires TCM programming for the unlock but I think whomever has the software from Allison needs permission from them to do so. My bus is a 2008 model.

2006 and up just need TCM programming as they are 4th gen controls and the 6 speed valve body and solenoids are installed.. the 2005 and older are the ones which need extensive modification.. so your 08 can in fact be 6 speeds..

[Mr4btTahoe]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

It's good for climbing hills or towing heavy weights, bad for highway travel. If you have a 2000-series transmission like mine (5th gear is top gear) you'll be revving pretty high at 65 mph, around 2500 RPM. A nice cruising RPM is 1800 which you'll hit at around 48 mph. You can get it swapped for something higher (numerically lower, maybe something below 4.0) which will let you go faster at lower RPMs. It seems it would cost in the vicinity of two grand at a shop, cheaper if you can DIY.

I think I'll swap mine at some point in the future, but for now it's actually a really good gearing since the driving I do is actually pretty hilly.

Just a heads up... but for my rig, I can get drop out thirds in just about any gear ratio for ~$300. Just need to know the model of the differential and the axle spline count.. there are several heavy truck salvage yards that you can get the 3rd member from or a complete axle assembly for much less than 2k. Now that's used obviously... but if mileage is lower, I wouldn't be too concerned.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by Mr4btTahoe

Just a heads up... but for my rig, I can get drop out thirds in just about any gear ratio for ~$300. Just need to know the model of the differential and the axle spline count.. there are several heavy truck salvage yards that you can get the 3rd member from or a complete axle assembly for much less than 2k. Now that's used obviously... but if mileage is lower, I wouldn't be too concerned.

~$2K is what I think I would have to pay a shop to do it, including used parts and labor. I don't have the ability to do anything mechanical on my bus.

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

You have a 6.17 rear gear ratio, too - we're a club now!

1st thing I would see about getting rid of. You need something in the 4.00's

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by Zork

Is that good or bad?

Bad if you plan on spending any time on the highway, needs a 4.00 something.
That 6.13 hurts your top speed and your fuel mileage.

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by Zork

Apparently 100 gal means another tank further back on the bus. I wonder if I can buy one of those second tanks. It would mean good news for my plan to install a diesel genset.

You can have one or the other, don't think there's room for both.

[cadillackid]

I’d love to find a 4.10 replacement for my red bus which is a 3.54

My current unit tag says spicer 110 on it. But the Dana part number for the diff is a 360CA104-4X. Which crosses back to an S135 so I’m not sure what I’ve got lol.

My navistar part for the chunk is 1695920C91 which I didn’t find anything on the internet on it.

[cadillackid]

Apparently I need a 360CA104-6X for a 4.10 gear and 36 spline no ABS

[cadillackid]

wait maybe its a 360CA104-7X doggone so many dana part numbers! LOL

[Zork]

I finally brought the bus home yesterday. It barely fits in the driveway, but it fits.

After having my VT registration returned twice, once for sending too much money, then because I put "yellow" in the application, I sent it back again in the "returns" envelope they sent me apparently because they felt bad about not catching the yellow the first time. The seller was getting antsy about it taking two months to move the bus, when I finally realized I could have driven it home way back when.

Turns out VT will issue you a temporary registration online that you can buy for $6 after you mail your title and registration with the paperwork. Don't use this if you have not already sent the application and paperwork for registration with the payment.

https://dmv.vermont.gov/Registration/Temporary

The temp can be printed at home and it's good for two months while you wait for them to send you your tags. I can't believe I missed this...

Anyway, after charging the batteries a bit I had a ton of brake related errors on the panel, but it turns out that since we had changed the WABCO HCU, it wanted the ORIGINAL ECU installed on that, not the one from the replacement pump. Once the mechanics figured that out I was good to go. The seller's mechanics also gave me four engine oil filters they had left over 'cause they no longer had buses that could use it (each one costs $60!) along with the old HCU/ECU that I will get repaired and use as a backup.

Got home and did the first four things on it; charge the batteries with the commercial charger I bought on Craigslist (two 1-hour sessions at 40 amps and the two large batteries in parallel are only 2/3 charged!), took out the front and rear school bus/charter flippable signs and removed the extending stop sign hardware on the left side of the bus.

And so it begins...

[Zork]

Another good thing is that her ass almost sticks out on the road, but not quite, speeders that usually run up and down my street as if it were their own speedway are stunned into slowing down. It's all good.

[Zork]

Got my Vermont tags today.

One down, a gazillion to go...

[Zork]

Well, I thought I would replace the vandal lock key assembly, and I did, but when I went to check the actual vandal lock hardware, turns out it was never there in the first place. Waste of time, maybe I'll put it in sometime in the future, but for now I did this.

[Zork]

I was doing research to figure out how I could put a 2-1/2" towing receiver in the rear of the bus. Turns out none of the manufacturers make something for this, but then I decided to look deeper into the issue and found out that the receivers made for the F450, F550 and F650 trucks are designed for a 34" frame. Hmm. I went outside and measured my chassis beams and it turns out they are exactly 34" at the outside bend radius of the flanges, and the flanges bend inwards. I just sent a note to Curt to confirm their heavy duty class 5 receiver is designed for this basic chassis beam width. If it is, mounting it should be a simple matter of clamping to the beams, drilling and reaming the holes and installing the correct high strength bolts. More later.

I also removed the mirrors that are installed in the front fenders, since the side mirrors are big enough and I am used to driving large vehicles with just those. HOLY COW, that was a project! All the bolts, screws and nuts were frozen solid. I had to use a cutoff wheel to get them off. Then I had to slice through the plastic of the housing where the mirror post slides into so i could take it out. I'm left with some fiberglass patching work to do but that's easy-peasy.

I've tried to give away the bus seats, and a few dweeb tirekickers have contacted me but never showed up, so I'm going to start removing them this weekend. When I am finished I will contact a junk removal company to take them away.

[Zork]

Started to take out the seats yesterday with the help of one of my nephews. After much experimenting and cursing, I came to the conclusion that it is much easier to use an angle grinder with a good cutoff wheel for metal, and simply slice the bolt heads off. Once you do that you can just tap the rest of the bolt through the floorboards with a large phillips screwdriver and a mallet, and it falls harmlessly to the ground. Biggest advantage is not having to get under the bus to undo the frozen nuts. The rail attachments were a non-event. Thankfully it's all one size bolts with 1/2 inch hex socket heads.