Joining the Club

[ted@campbycanoe.com]

Got the ceiling panels out and have cleaned up enough for rust converter today. I was hoping to get all the wall skins off, too, before I put on the rust converter, but the weather's turning colder so I wanted to take advantage of some warm temps and get it done!

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by ted@campbycanoe.com

Got the ceiling panels out and have cleaned up enough for rust converter today. I was hoping to get all the wall skins off, too, before I put on the rust converter, but the weather's turning colder so I wanted to take advantage of some warm temps and get it done!

What bus make and model do you have? Put it in your profile.

[Sleddgracer]

Originally Posted by ted@campbycanoe.com

Got the ceiling panels out and have cleaned up enough for rust converter today. I was hoping to get all the wall skins off, too, before I put on the rust converter, but the weather's turning colder so I wanted to take advantage of some warm temps and get it done!

are you going to do a roof raise while it's gutted?

[ted@campbycanoe.com]

No...beyond the scope of what I can do. At 5'7", I think I can manage the lower ceiling.

[ted@campbycanoe.com]

Got the rust converter on today.

While it was drying I crawled underneath and knocked off some scale to get ready for some undercoating at some point.

Mostly pretty solid, although a few of the ribs have some rot. How do I remediate this?

Think I got the profile situated so ya'll can see bus info...

[o1marc]

Fabricate new ones and replace. That big scale on the side will come right off with a good whack from a hammer.
I would check the stability of the floor above that rusty area.

[ted@campbycanoe.com]

Rust conversion process is done!


I ended up using FDC Rust Converter Ultra. It had good reviews and was less than $50 a gallon. It seem to do the trick and turn all the rust to a black, seemingly solid, metal.

Got some holes I need to patch. Most are less than the size of a golf ball. I'm worried about a couple right in the seam of the wheel well.

Most recommendations here say weld. But I don't have a welder. (I found a MSM Stinger III used for $100)

I also can't find galvanized steel closer than an hour away.

So here's my thinking and I am interested in people's opinions.

I don't see us driving the bus in the winter in the snow. I want to do it right, but need to maintain a reasonable budget.

Can I get by by repurposing the steel from the seat backs, treat it with POR-15 or Rust Bullet, and use a marine epoxy to patch the holes?

Or do I drive an hour to get galvanized steel and use that?

[o1marc]

Seats are pretty worthless for more than scrap value. Many reuse the metal for patch and other fabrication. It's free, use it.

[Sleddgracer]

Originally Posted by ted@campbycanoe.com

Rust conversion process is done!


I ended up using FDC Rust Converter Ultra. It had good reviews and was less than $50 a gallon. It seem to do the trick and turn all the rust to a black, seemingly solid, metal.

Got some holes I need to patch. Most are less than the size of a golf ball. I'm worried about a couple right in the seam of the wheel well.

Most recommendations here say weld. But I don't have a welder. (I found a MSM Stinger III used for $100)

I also can't find galvanized steel closer than an hour away.

So here's my thinking and I am interested in people's opinions.

I don't see us driving the bus in the winter in the snow. I want to do it right, but need to maintain a reasonable budget.

Can I get by by repurposing the steel from the seat backs, treat it with POR-15 or Rust Bullet, and use a marine epoxy to patch the holes?

Or do I drive an hour to get galvanized steel and use that?

another option is to get a fiberglassing kit from your local hardware or building supply - just be sure all of the rust is ground away before laying the fiberglass - lot's of youtube videos about using fiberglass , 'can't get much simpler

[TJones]

Welcome Ted! Good to have another Ted around. For patching your holes your epoxy idea or sleddgracer's fiberglass idea are good. You would have to do alot of grinding to get to clean enough metal to weld and then there might not be much metal left. Just make sure all the loose rusty metal is removed, converted and sealed prior to covering it up. Por15 works well but I'm not sure how well other products will stick to it.

Ted

[EastCoastCB]

I prefer non-galvanized.

[sir_dt466]

Originally Posted by Sleddgracer

you could always rent one of these to remove the rubber

i used a spaded shovel took me total about 3 hours solo over a two day period

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by TJones

Por15 works well but I'm not sure how well other products will stick to it.

I've dealt with some of my rust with ospho, then POR-15 and then rustoleum enamel and the whole thing is solid, very difficult to even scratch let alone scrape off the underlying metal.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by ted@campbycanoe.com

Got the rust converter on today.

While it was drying I crawled underneath and knocked off some scale to get ready for some undercoating at some point.

Mostly pretty solid, although a few of the ribs have some rot. How do I remediate this?

Think I got the profile situated so ya'll can see bus info...

Once that stiffener (the channel on the underside of the floor) is rusted through like that it's pretty much worthless as a structural member (just in that area, not along its entire length), and it will collect moisture and continue to rust further. If you had a welder, the best fix would be to cut out the badly-rusted floor above this (however large a rectangle that is) and also remove the rusted part of the stiffener, back until you get to solid material. Then you'd weld a patch of sheet metal on top and a piece of angle iron (maybe 1.5" or 2") underneath splinted to the healthy stiffener and replacing the cut-away bit.

Without welding I'm not really sure there's a good way to fix this, other than to do all the cutting and then epoxying a patch on top, without replacing the structural support that had been provided by the rusted stiffener. It's a small enough area that your floor would be fine, just a bit soft and bendy there.

I would say this would be an inexpensive job for a welder to do, especially if you did all the cutting and fitting of pieces ahead of time, but I haven't had the best of luck with "professional" welders of late.

[ted@campbycanoe.com]

Thanks for all the ideas!

I might pick up that welder to deal with the stiffeners at a later date. It may come in handy later on anyway for fabricating tank brackets.

In the meantime, though, looks like I'll go with epoxy patches for the floor. I'm still a bit undecided on material. My biggest holes are smaller than my fist. Do I go pick up a sheet of 16 gauge ($100) or use seat backs? Where's the best value?

I ordered some 3M 5400 epoxy and some Rust Bullet to treat and adhere the patches.

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by ted@campbycanoe.com

Thanks for all the ideas!

I might pick up that welder to deal with the stiffeners at a later date. It may come in handy later on anyway for fabricating tank brackets.

In the meantime, though, looks like I'll go with epoxy patches for the floor. I'm still a bit undecided on material. My biggest holes are smaller than my fist. Do I go pick up a sheet of 16 gauge ($100) or use seat backs? Where's the best value?

I ordered some 3M 5400 epoxy and some Rust Bullet to treat and adhere the patches.

Where's the best value? Free stuff, or stuff you need to buy for $100?

[ted@campbycanoe.com]

I know, I know! But if I have to replace free material in 5 years, the cost breakdown's not so cheap anymore.

I ended up buying some 16 gauge steel (half a sheet for $40) . I'll use that for the rougher spots and use some of the ceiling material for some of the bolt holes.

It'll be a science experiment...

Got the seat out and the rest of the plywood under the driver's heater last night. Not easy getting to the bolts under the seat to cut them. (Too rusted to turn.) . I'll start cutting out rust spots tonight.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by ted@campbycanoe.com

I know, I know! But if I have to replace free material in 5 years, the cost breakdown's not so cheap anymore.

I ended up buying some 16 gauge steel (half a sheet for $40) . I'll use that for the rougher spots and use some of the ceiling material for some of the bolt holes.

It'll be a science experiment...

Got the seat out and the rest of the plywood under the driver's heater last night. Not easy getting to the bolts under the seat to cut them. (Too rusted to turn.) . I'll start cutting out rust spots tonight.

The seat backs would be fine for making small patches out of, but getting the metal out is enough of a pain that a small sheet of 16 ga from Lowes or Home Depot is easier. BTW for cutting the metal, the $30 shears from Harbor Freight have been working great for me, and they can cut down to 14 ga thickness.

For the patches, you'll want to make sure they're painted on the underside, either before you lay them down or after, and also put seam sealer around the seams. The epoxy and paint on the inside will keep them from rusting inside, but the exposed metal on the bottom will start rusting quickly outside.

[ted@campbycanoe.com]

Great feedback, thanks!

My lovely bride already stripped all the seats. We took the fabric to our bulky waste dump and are going to the scrap yard for the metal, so it might be easier to access the steel.

I ordered some Rust Bullet and 3M 5400 epoxy for the patches. I think I'll spray the Rust Bullet on whole pieces of metal first, then cut them down to patch size.

[ted@campbycanoe.com]

I ended up using FDC Rust Converter Ultra. But when I started drilling rivet holes for patches I noticed a rust colored dust. So I ground down a section to see underneath.

The top looks black like it's supposed to, but there's definitely rust colored stuff underneath.

My understanding is that rust converters convert iron oxide to iron phosphate or iron tannate, or some other inert metal. Is this rust color indicative of the rust converter not getting deep enough? Should I grind down to almost metal and put on another coat?