Leavuntaun -- Soon

[Oldyeller]

I was laying awake last night thinking about this insurance issue with my bus and for the first time the thought entered my mind that I might have to give up on it. I called a couple independent agents and had a conversation with one who told me the only underwriter they knew of would only write policies on Skoolies professionally converted. I'm going to call others as well but I'm not holding out much hope that I'll find any insurer here in New Jersey that will cover a self-built skoolie.

I've noted that some folks have gotten commercial insurance on their buses. I'll ask about that though I expect New Jersey, government or insurance companies, will prohibit that as well.

Even if I move to another state I can't legally take the bus because it won't be insured. I'd have to leave it here until I get established in another state and I don't want to "get established" in another state I want to live on my bus.

The only thing I can think of is choose one of the states like SD where I can establish residency and transfer title on vehicles via one of the private companies that do that but I'd have to have sold my house at that point.

Worse comes to worse I'd have to sell the bus and give up on this whole idea. That doesn't please me.

[musigenesis]

I hear you man, I hope I don't get stuck in the same boat. I just renewed my Allstate policy for another year, but I don't know how much longer that will last.

I think the "professionally converted" thing is amusing in an un-amusing way. Like, what qualifications does a professional skoolie builder actually have other than that they've (presumably) converted more than one?

[Bus'n it]

I think insurance companies are looking for "professionally converted" so if there is ever a claim, the professional can be gone after. I used to do forensics on failed appliances and their parts for insurance companies after they paid out claims for, lets say a kitchen flood. The dishwasher that caused the flood is dismantled and the part that failed is photographed and sent off to the manufacturer. Insurance company gets their money back from the claim from the manufacturer. I find it amazing how the whole thing works. Scary to think that we may be on the cusp of losing insurance coverage. There are many of us building buses.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by Bus'n it

I think insurance companies are looking for "professionally converted" so if there is ever a claim, the professional can be gone after.

This does make sense, but it seems like pro skoolie converters are generally sketchy enough that there's not a whole lot that can be gone after. No offense to any non-sketchy converters, if such there be.

[Oldyeller]

Who insures their bus for more than liability? Even if your bus burns down as long as it doesn't involve anyone else the insurer won't be out a dime. If you lose your brakes and completely destroy a small city, it had nothing to do with whether it was professionally built or not. Would a 'professional bus builder' be certified and/or bonded, probably not. From what I've been picking up in my reading and listening commercially built, brand name motorhomes can have some very iffy quality issues right off the showroom floor there seems to be no problem with insurance. I may end up giving up on the bus dream and convert my motorcycle trailer. Screw 'em, go stealth. At least the only thing that would stop me would be - ME.

[Bus'n it]

Well, thats the thing. If your bus destroys a small city, how do they know what the weight class was when the bus was completed? Was it overweight? Was the CG of force applied to a specific side which caused more damage on impact to the poor, poor claimant? I mean, I get it. RV's from the factory can be modified just as simple as the owner wanting to rid of the propane fridge that came with the rig for a huge 12 door custom Sub Zero which weighs in much higher. In the end, the insurers if they want, should take their own pictures and adjust the premiums accordingly. Let's say the water tank located just aft of the axle is a problem. Upon inspection they could adjust the premium to their risk or have the owner make changes. I don't know. What I do know, is that they want to collect the most amount of money and take the absolute minimum risk.

[Oldyeller]

Originally Posted by Bus'n it

Well, thats the thing. If your bus destroys a small city, how do they know what the weight class was when the bus was completed? Was it overweight? Was the CG of force applied to a specific side which caused more damage on impact to the poor, poor claimant? I mean, I get it. RV's from the factory can be modified just as simple as the owner wanting to rid of the propane fridge that came with the rig for a huge 12 door custom Sub Zero which weighs in much higher. In the end, the insurers if they want, should take their own pictures and adjust the premiums accordingly. Let's say the water tank located just aft of the axle is a problem. Upon inspection they could adjust the premium to their risk or have the owner make changes. I don't know. What I do know, is that they want to collect the most amount of money and take the absolute minimum risk.

I understand the insurer wanting to control liability and I'm not against that. The truth is the greatest exposure in terms of liability for the insurer isn't what's inside the bus at all, it's the mechanical condition of the bus. Guess I shoulda just said that in my last post, my bad.

[cadillackid]

the conversion greatly affects the bus, its driveability, and weight.. if a blow a right front tire and careen across the center line because i have 100 gallons of water all on one side up too high causing a balance issue.. or my roof-deck makes my center of gravity too high so i flip after the tire blow. or my wood-stove burning in the back while I drive starts my bus on fire which touches off a brush fire that burns down 16 houses thats all conversion and nothing to do with navistar or thomas whom professionally built the bus.. theoretically a professional skoolie builder would carry his own liability insurance as a business so a defect in the design or workmanship that caused a loss could allow the owner's insurance company to recover the loss.. as such likely the pro builder (hopefully) would not install things like water tanks up high or wood stoves that could be burned while driving.. and maybe not even roof decks that could cause center of gravity issues...


a manufactured RV has had its chassis, body, and such certified and inspected and to receive certain seals / labels stabdards are met.. theres a reason a fleetwood camper doesnt have a roof-deck or wood stove or minisplit hanging off the back...


apparently Shoddy skoolie builds are an unfortunate reality since insurance is getting tougher to get. those of us in the bus enthusiast groups insuring busses with seats (that keep their seats) have little trouble insuring those busses


if insuring converted busses resulted in a profit center they wouldnt stop insuring them.. the only thing that means is that high dollar payouts are occuring.. and it doesnt take too mamny of those before the complete sector is deemed unprofitable and is no longer covered..



just like life insurance companies often refuse to cover people who sky-dive..

[BamaBus]

Originally Posted by Oldyeller

I've noted that some folks have gotten commercial insurance on their buses. I'll ask about that though I expect New Jersey, government or insurance companies, will prohibit that as well.

It just took me over a week to get a cutaway van (formerly a 4 window school bus) insured. I have had 3 normally chatty agents become very hard to talk with and no one offered any solutions. The only way it got insured was on an existing commercial policy but the rate was pretty dang high. I'm hoping that when the dmv changes it to a motor home I will have better results.

This may be a bit political, but if governments and ins companies collude in the name of the environment, then it really will be tough.

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

both of mine are insured with a commercial policy as a bus for personal use.
no questions asked?
dont give up yet your insurance is out there old yeller

[o1marc]

I don't think my insurance company ever asked me where it was registered, or if it was, but they insured me full coverage (State Farm) for a year while it sat in the driveway. I changed it to liabilty at the first of the year and pay only $4.11/month. Insured in Ga., registered in Vt.
State Farm now knows I am registered in Vt., they don't care. They also said I was insured whether my registration was valid or not.

[Oldyeller]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

the conversion greatly affects the bus, its driveability, and weight.. if a blow a right front tire and careen across the center line because i have 100 gallons of water all on one side up too high causing a balance issue.. or my roof-deck makes my center of gravity too high so i flip after the tire blow. or my wood-stove burning in the back while I drive starts my bus on fire which touches off a brush fire that burns down 16 houses thats all conversion and nothing to do with navistar or thomas whom professionally built the bus.. theoretically a professional skoolie builder would carry his own liability insurance as a business so a defect in the design or workmanship that caused a loss could allow the owner's insurance company to recover the loss.. as such likely the pro builder (hopefully) would not install things like water tanks up high or wood stoves that could be burned while driving.. and maybe not even roof decks that could cause center of gravity issues...


a manufactured RV has had its chassis, body, and such certified and inspected and to receive certain seals / labels stabdards are met.. theres a reason a fleetwood camper doesnt have a roof-deck or wood stove or minisplit hanging off the back...


apparently Shoddy skoolie builds are an unfortunate reality since insurance is getting tougher to get. those of us in the bus enthusiast groups insuring busses with seats (that keep their seats) have little trouble insuring those busses


if insuring converted busses resulted in a profit center they wouldnt stop insuring them.. the only thing that means is that high dollar payouts are occuring.. and it doesnt take too mamny of those before the complete sector is deemed unprofitable and is no longer covered..



Just like life insurance companies often refuse to cover people who sky-dive..

I can't say I think any of your suppositions are wrong but I still think the greatest chance of things going south are the basic mechanicals of the bus. Add to that the fact that lots of folks seem to think their skoolie should go as fast as a car on the interstate and the potential for bad outcomes increases.

One thing I don't think can be debated, some states make it much more difficult to buy insurance for a skoolie and it's got nothing (that I can see) to do with anything either of us have brought up. None of the things either of us have mentioned are more likely to happen to/with a skoolie built in South Dakota than in New Jersey. Point is some states are a lot more screwed up than others. And I happen to live in one of the most screwed up states of all.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Oldyeller

I can't say I think any of your suppositions are wrong but I still think the greatest chance of things going south are the basic mechanicals of the bus. Add to that the fact that lots of folks seem to think their skoolie should go as fast as a car on the interstate and the potential for bad outcomes increases.

One thing I don't think can be debated, some states make it much more difficult to buy insurance for a skoolie and it's got nothing (that I can see) to do with anything either of us have brought up. None of the things either of us have mentioned are more likely to happen to/with a skoolie built in South Dakota than in New Jersey. Point is some states are a lot more screwed up than others. And I happen to live in one of the most screwed up states of all.

most surely different states have different chances of getting insured.. as for progrtessive and their commercial for personal use.. they do now ask if your bus is a bus and if its staying that way.. they never used to ask .. they diont ask for pictures and dont ask if it specifically has seats but they ask if "is it a bus? is it staying a bus?" implying that if its converted or lived in then its not covered.. and thats in ohio where they are based and have the most experience.. once you are in with them you can renew online.. im guessing though that if someone's bus is converted and they make a claim then it would be denied..



insurance companies Look for reasons to deny claims esp if the payout is large.. as for states im guessing regulations are such around indemnity and what can and cannot be denied in the event of a claim creates more risk.. or the fact that crime is higher or lower.. when I moved from what I thought was a nice neighborhood near the center of my city to a nice new house in the suburbs my car insurance on my regular cars dropped by 15% and i didnt even have to talk to a lizard.. my state farm agent said its likely that in the city vandalism cases were higher.. sand apparently it made no difference that my car was in the garage at my apartment but was sitting outside more in my new place because I was using the garage for a massive christmas lights show prep.. plus I drive more living in the burbs than I did in the city but nevertheless the "assessed risk" was apparently higher at the old place.. no common sense used just apparently insurance people-speak ..


probably the sane sense that says dont insure a bus in jersey but do in south dakota...

[Oldyeller]

Today more paint - and more pictures.

Finished up the first coat on the rails on the right side and put a second coat on the rails on the left side. Definitely harder to do the rails, neither brush nor roller did that well.

I also trimmed around the headlight and grill openings.

Tomorrow I'll start sanding/prepping the areas I haven't done yet. The color is growing on me.

[Oldyeller]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

most surely different states have different chances of getting insured.. as for progrtessive and their commercial for personal use.. they do now ask if your bus is a bus and if its staying that way.. they never used to ask .. they diont ask for pictures and dont ask if it specifically has seats but they ask if "is it a bus? is it staying a bus?" implying that if its converted or lived in then its not covered.. and thats in ohio where they are based and have the most experience.. once you are in with them you can renew online.. im guessing though that if someone's bus is converted and they make a claim then it would be denied..



insurance companies Look for reasons to deny claims esp if the payout is large.. as for states im guessing regulations are such around indemnity and what can and cannot be denied in the event of a claim creates more risk.. or the fact that crime is higher or lower.. when I moved from what I thought was a nice neighborhood near the center of my city to a nice new house in the suburbs my car insurance on my regular cars dropped by 15% and i didnt even have to talk to a lizard.. my state farm agent said its likely that in the city vandalism cases were higher.. sand apparently it made no difference that my car was in the garage at my apartment but was sitting outside more in my new place because I was using the garage for a massive christmas lights show prep.. plus I drive more living in the burbs than I did in the city but nevertheless the "assessed risk" was apparently higher at the old place.. no common sense used just apparently insurance people-speak ..


probably the sane sense that says dont insure a bus in jersey but do in south dakota...

The point of my last post was to suggest that the things we both mentioned as possible calamities are no more like to happen to a bus from New Jersey as from any other state where it might be easier to get insurance.

It would be interesting to know how Skoolies are used. I guess I assume most Skoolies are driven more frequently out of their home states than in. Wonder if that's the case? I know I have no intention of driving mine in New Jersey unless I'm driving the 30 miles between me and the PA border, laughing maniacally the whole way.

Ah well interesting discussion, thanks. Think I'll start measuring the trailer in case I have to use it instead of the bus.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by Oldyeller

I know I have no intention of driving mine in New Jersey unless I'm driving the 30 miles between me and the PA border, laughing maniacally the whole way.

Let me know when you're ready to move it and I'll run interference for you in my Z3. Smokey and the Bandit III (unless there already was a third one).

[Mr4btTahoe]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Let me know when you're ready to move it and I'll run interference for you in my Z3. Smokey and the Bandit III (unless there already was a third one).

Too late mate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokey..._Bandit_Part_3


Maybe III.5?

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by Mr4btTahoe

Too late mate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokey..._Bandit_Part_3


Maybe III.5?

I think they switch to puns by the time you get to the fourth installment, so it would have to be something like Smokey and the Bandit Fore! Happy Gilmore Rides Shotgun.

Oldyeller, I apologize for littering your build thread with something this bad.

[Oldyeller]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

I think they switch to puns by the time you get to the fourth installment, so it would have to be something like Smokey and the Bandit Fore! Happy Gilmore Rides Shotgun.

Oldyeller, I apologize for littering your build thread with something this bad.

LOL, doesn't bother me, have at it. It's not as though we're dealing with life changing content here - it's entertainment with the possibility of providing information for someone foolish enough to try to do this silliness.

[Oldyeller]

Regarding the insurance for the bus. I had contacted the relative of a friend who has owned and run an independent agency in New Jersey for 25 years. He just got back to me about a policy for my bus.

The only thing he could offer is a commercial liability policy to New Jersey minimum coverage and that would be $2100 a year. Doesn't look like I'm going to be finishing the bus, I'm tired of BS. I'll finish the painting I'm doing now then make a final decision but I'm thinking I'll be getting rid of the bus. I suspect there is someone in a state with reasonable insurance rates that will want it.