Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-20-2020, 04:20 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
livinginlimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Ontario
Posts: 12
Year: 2006
Life in Limbo

The story so far:

A few months into Covid quarantine felt like the right time to start this project that Iíve always dreamed of. I got this bus (2006 Ford E350) pretty cheap ($2000) and pretty close to where I live (Ontario). After ripping out the rotting floor, I found out why it was so cheap: rust. The frame is covered in rust.

https://imgur.com/gallery/2fUjprg

I have time and elbow grease to spare, but Iím trying to keep the cost as low as possible.

If anyone has any advice on how to deal with the rust, and reinforce the frame, I would love to hear it! The plan right now involves a lot of cleaning with wire brushes and then welding in some new cross beams in conjunction with the old ones.

I would love to hear everyoneís thoughts!
livinginlimbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2020, 04:32 PM   #2
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Ohio
Posts: 179
Year: 2008
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: 0908S
Engine: Cummins 5.9
Rated Cap: 28' 9 window
That is a lot of rust and if you are going to move forward with it Iíd suggest using a power washer and pick up a sand blaster attachment for it. I used one on my floor to get in the corners and hard to reach places. Stay away from the windows though. I accidentally shattered one of my windows using it
dwood443 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2020, 04:36 PM   #3
Mini-Skoolie
 
livinginlimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Ontario
Posts: 12
Year: 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwood443 View Post
That is a lot of rust and if you are going to move forward with it Iíd suggest using a power washer and pick up a sand blaster attachment for it. I used one on my floor to get in the corners and hard to reach places. Stay away from the windows though. I accidentally shattered one of my windows using it
Oh wow, great advice, I would not have even considered the windows! I was thinking about sandblasting, my only concern was trying to contain the sand. I just have my bus parked in my driveway and I don’t want my neighbours to hate me for getting sand all over their yard!
livinginlimbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2020, 05:46 PM   #4
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Ohio
Posts: 179
Year: 2008
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: 0908S
Engine: Cummins 5.9
Rated Cap: 28' 9 window
Thatís what so great about the power washer. No dust. The sand blaster attachment is $20 - 50. Just keep the sand dry.
dwood443 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2020, 06:25 PM   #5
Bus Nut
 
BeNimble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 388
Year: 1999
Doesn't look that bad, but hard to tell from pics. The flat top side is not where the strength is for the floor, it is the vertical sides, so if they are solid, probably ok.

To sand blast with a pressure washer requires like a 6gpm unit, double of your typical one. You can rent the big ones. You might try just straight water and see if that removes the loose stuff. It still makes a mess.
BeNimble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2020, 10:16 PM   #6
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Fraser Valley British Columbia
Posts: 423
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: C7 Cat
Quote:
Originally Posted by livinginlimbo View Post
The story so far:

A few months into Covid quarantine felt like the right time to start this project that Iíve always dreamed of. I got this bus (2006 Ford E350) pretty cheap ($2000) and pretty close to where I live (Ontario). After ripping out the rotting floor, I found out why it was so cheap: rust. The frame is covered in rust.

https://imgur.com/gallery/2fUjprg

I have time and elbow grease to spare, but Iím trying to keep the cost as low as possible.

If anyone has any advice on how to deal with the rust, and reinforce the frame, I would love to hear it! The plan right now involves a lot of cleaning with wire brushes and then welding in some new cross beams in conjunction with the old ones.

I would love to hear everyoneís thoughts!
The rusty cross members that supported the floor should be bolted or clamped to the bus chassis, you can weld together new cross member framework but they should not be welded to the bus frame. Welding on the frame will weaken it. Good luck with your work.
Stay safe
Oscar1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2020, 05:02 PM   #7
Mini-Skoolie
 
livinginlimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Ontario
Posts: 12
Year: 2006
Rust Removal Update

I've found a contact (a family friend) who is willing to help me out, and do some soda blasting to remove the extensive rust on the frame and chassis! So the next step is getting Limbo to their shop, which is about an hour drive. I want to put down some sort of temporary floor for the drive (for safety and so it won't be so loud). So I'm thinking I should just go out and get the plywood that will eventually become the floor, and strap it down for the drive.

I see that most conversions still have the sheet metal beneath their plywood subfloor, but my metal floor was too rusted to salvage and I've stripped it right down to the frame. I think I will probably just treat some plywood with waterproofing paint and put it down on the frame, without reinstalling any sheet metal. Anyone have any advice on how thick the plywood should be if I don't plan on having a metal floor beneath it? Any reason this is an awful plan, waiting to bite me in the future?
livinginlimbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2020, 06:27 PM   #8
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Wild Wild West
Posts: 632
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC RE
Engine: 8.3 Cummins MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
I would go with 3/4" pressure treated T&G plywood. I don't think you will have any problems down the road, at least not for many years. You can always have someone spray a healthy layer of undercoating or even truck bed liner on it when you are done with the build for added protection from the road elements.
JackE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2020, 06:47 PM   #9
Mini-Skoolie
 
livinginlimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Ontario
Posts: 12
Year: 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackE View Post
I would go with 3/4" pressure treated T&G plywood. I don't think you will have any problems down the road, at least not for many years. You can always have someone spray a healthy layer of undercoating or even truck bed liner on it when you are done with the build for added protection from the road elements.
Iím definitely thinking 3/4Ē, but Iíve heard that pressure treated doesnít always play nice chemically with the metal. Iíve also heard others recommend Raptor Bed Liner for the underside. Iím thinking 3/4Ē plywood on the bottom, rigid foam insulation, and 1/2Ē plywood on top.
livinginlimbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2020, 06:55 PM   #10
Bus Crazy
 
Jolly Roger bus 223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Swansboro,NC
Posts: 1,301
Year: 86
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford B700
Engine: 8.2
Rated Cap: 60 bodies
3/4 inch thick marine grade plywood at a minimum is my opinion? for your intentions.
my personal opinion if it were mine is different and i dont live anywhere near your area?
so take that with a grain of salt?
NO PUN INTENDED??????
wish you luck.
sand/soda/dry ice blasting will deffinetely show the problem areas to be fixed and usually more than visual if done correct?

ospho and several brands neutralise the rust and for the not so bad areas LOCTITE makes a spray on converter that seams good and has lasted on my old truck frame for 5 years now but then again i am not in your area?
workiing on my old truck i was introduced to a product by a friend that works on boats and trailers called fluid film that is widely used as vehicle undercoat in the northern states and it isnt cheap but it does what it says it does and if it matters to you every bit of it is plant based except the aerosol if you buy it in a paint can but they sell it in five gallon buckets that can be applied with a garden pump sprayer(idea) paint sprayer if you have access?
to me the stuff stink but it did what i was asking of it and that was after wd and pb or a combination but have gone to it for several other projects and it needs saturation time of course but it is starting to suprise me?
Jolly Roger bus 223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2020, 07:07 PM   #11
Bus Geek
 
musigenesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 4,054
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
Modern PT lumber uses compounds with high copper content, which makes it bad for steel thanks to galvanic corrosion. I don't think PT plywood would instantly eat through your frame like Alien blood or anything, but it's something to consider for the long-term health of your bus. Even in house construction, PT is generally used as a way to quickly build something (quick because you don't need to prime and paint it), at the cost of its having a definitely finite lifespan.
__________________
Rusty 87 build thread
musigenesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2020, 07:29 PM   #12
Mini-Skoolie
 
livinginlimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Ontario
Posts: 12
Year: 2006
Iím definitely leaning towards using marine grade plywood. Has anyone experienced any issues with marine grade plywood reacting negatively with the steel like PT plywood?
livinginlimbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2020, 07:30 PM   #13
Bus Crazy
 
joeblack5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: pa
Posts: 1,768
Year: 98
Coachwork: 1. Corbeil & 2. Thomas
Chassis: 1 ford e350 2 mercedes
Engine: 7.3 powerstroke & MBE906
Our low floor city bus has wooden floor that are coated at the bottom side.
Then the well regarded Crowns have wooden floors .. so it cannot be all that bad.


Actually i think that having a metal floor i asking for problems unless you have real good ventilation and drainage between the metal and the wood. My though that the school buses have a steel floor for fire barrier reasons in case of accidents and that they well knew that they would rot out.. Is that not the basis of our current economy.


I would take thin plastic, as in shower wall stuff, insulate and then put a painted marine grade floor on top. The pressure treated stuff is not very flat or appealing .


Good luck

Johan
joeblack5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2020, 07:48 PM   #14
Bus Nut
 
BeNimble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 388
Year: 1999
The shuttle buses are just plywood on metal grids on top of the frame rails,
My 1999 is now 20 years old, and the plywood has no issues at all from underneath.
They will dry out if wet, the problem occurs when they CAN'T dry. I would not use pressure treated, and all plywood is 'marine' waterproof glue today, the difference today is marine plywood doesn't have voids in the plys, not needed for this kind of application.
I'm pretty sure it is 3/4 inch, yep. Now note they don't put tile down on it, just rubber mat, so it doesn't need to stay perfectly flat for a kitchen table.
BeNimble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2020, 08:02 PM   #15
Bus Crazy
 
Jolly Roger bus 223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Swansboro,NC
Posts: 1,301
Year: 86
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford B700
Engine: 8.2
Rated Cap: 60 bodies
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblack5 View Post
Our low floor city bus has wooden floor that are coated at the bottom side.
Then the well regarded Crowns have wooden floors .. so it cannot be all that bad.


Actually i think that having a metal floor i asking for problems unless you have real good ventilation and drainage between the metal and the wood. My though that the school buses have a steel floor for fire barrier reasons in case of accidents and that they well knew that they would rot out.. Is that not the basis of our current economy.


I would take thin plastic, as in shower wall stuff, insulate and then put a painted marine grade floor on top. The pressure treated stuff is not very flat or appealing .


Good luck

Johan
joe. not to single you out but there is another thread i sent your way about the mercedes engine.
they are looking at buying a bus with one and i i asked them to PM you.
you are more than welcome to PM me a finger or whatever but but with you owning a mercedes motor i thought you would give the best advice.
Jolly Roger bus 223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2020, 10:22 PM   #16
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Fraser Valley British Columbia
Posts: 423
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: C7 Cat
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeNimble View Post
The shuttle buses are just plywood on metal grids on top of the frame rails,
My 1999 is now 20 years old, and the plywood has no issues at all from underneath.
They will dry out if wet, the problem occurs when they CAN'T dry. I would not use pressure treated, and all plywood is 'marine' waterproof glue today, the difference today is marine plywood doesn't have voids in the plys, not needed for this kind of application.
I'm pretty sure it is 3/4 inch, yep. Now note they don't put tile down on it, just rubber mat, so it doesn't need to stay perfectly flat for a kitchen table.
What is your source of information in saying that all plywood is marine and waterproof? I find that extremely hard to believe when Home Depot grades their plywood as exterior, exposure levels 1 and 2, structural and cabinet grade. When members are stating fact or opinion it would be nice to say so, fact-quote source, opinion-in my opinion.
Just my opinion
Thanks
Oscar1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2020, 10:37 PM   #17
Bus Geek
 
musigenesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 4,054
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
Quote:
Originally Posted by livinginlimbo View Post
Iím definitely leaning towards using marine grade plywood. Has anyone experienced any issues with marine grade plywood reacting negatively with the steel like PT plywood?
Any wood that isn't pressure-treated won't cause corrosion - with the exception of the situation where wood absorbs water and then holds it against metal for a prolonged period of time (which is how the plywood floor of a regular school bus manages to rust out the steel floor underneath it). Since your plywood will be on an open frame, that won't happen.
__________________
Rusty 87 build thread
musigenesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2020, 11:03 PM   #18
Bus Geek
 
musigenesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 4,054
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
BeNimble brings up an interesting point here. Plywood is not waterproof - if it comes in contact with water plywood will absorb it, but if it is then allowed to dry out no rot will occur. In the role of a bus floor on an open frame, the underside would always be able to dry out after a drive in the rain, and it would potentially last for a very long time without degrading (perhaps decades although this would depend on the humidity of wherever you live), even if completely untreated (like, no primer or paint or anything). In fact if you treat the underside at all, the possibility exists that the coating or sealant you use (if it's ever compromised in spots) will end up trapping water in the plywood and preventing it from drying out, leading to rot.

One material I would not use for an open floor (and I don't think anybody would, but who knows) would be OSB. One of the interesting differences between plywood and OSB is that in dry climates they both dry out equally well after a soaking, but in humid climates plywood will dry out much faster than OSB. But it gets worse for OSB: if plywood is soaked and then dries out, its ability to dry out in the future will remain unimpaired, but once OSB gets wet (a single time), its ability to dry out (called permeance) will be less than before. If it gets wet again then its permeance will be lowered even further, etc. etc. until you have just a wet pulp.
__________________
Rusty 87 build thread
musigenesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2020, 11:39 PM   #19
Bus Nut
 
BeNimble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 388
Year: 1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar1 View Post
What is your source of information in saying that all plywood is marine and waterproof? I find that extremely hard to believe when Home Depot grades their plywood as exterior, exposure levels 1 and 2, structural and cabinet grade. When members are stating fact or opinion it would be nice to say so, fact-quote source, opinion-in my opinion.
Just my opinion
Thanks
Everything I say is my opinion..if you find something hard to believe, check it for yourself..the very first page of a google search, at least it didn't take me long to reply. Having worked on my boats, plywood is something you learn about. Doesn't mean my opinions are always right, or google results either.
The fastest way to find out 'facts' is post false ones, like a School Bus is safer because its made of metal. ;)


"There can be no voids or holes hidden on the inner layers of marine grade plywood. Accordingly, it is denser and stronger than exterior plywood. The edges tend to cut and sand cleaner than the standard plywood. Marine plywood is intended for use in boat building or other marine applications."

" Marine grade uses exterior adhesive. Incidentally, this is the same adhesive as used in the inexpensive construction CD-X plywood or any other ..."
BeNimble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2020, 01:20 PM   #20
Mini-Skoolie
 
livinginlimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Ontario
Posts: 12
Year: 2006
Thank you so much for the help everyone! Iíve pretty much decided on using marine grade plywood and coating it with truck bed liner on the underside.
livinginlimbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×