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Old 12-06-2019, 09:17 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by ACamper View Post
Nice project !

Personally I would pull the massive AC unit. It is dead weight unless you are using it. If you only use it 10%-15% of the time it wouldn't be worth lugging it around IMO. But if you pull it it could take some off the resale value.


If the AC worked that well you could tie it into your ICE theme
I agree not to mention it's more crap in the way when it comes time for working on the engine... Just depends on how much one would really use it.
Then you have something else hogging up space inside where storage compartments could go....
BUT if the person stays on the move alot and doesn't hook up to AC power much then I could see keeping them... One could partition the back off from the front and run a RV or mini split upfront while driving and it prob would be able to keep it cool enough.

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Old 12-06-2019, 12:56 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by TJones View Post
You could make new A/C ducts that are a narrow rectangle and run them on the ceiling or along the wall under the windows. Either way you will lose a little space but in my opinion worth it to have good A/C.

Unrelated question, are your windows double or single pane?

Ted
Have you seen ducts done like this on another project? I'm having a hard time dealing with the space it would eat up. These were 10" ducts, so I'm also not sure small ducts would be effective.

Just single pane, Some have micro cracks and will need to be replaced. I am seriously considering springing for double pane, it would make a huge insulation difference.
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Old 12-06-2019, 09:22 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Neorush View Post
Have you seen ducts done like this on another project? I'm having a hard time dealing with the space it would eat up. These were 10" ducts, so I'm also not sure small ducts would be effective.

Just single pane, Some have micro cracks and will need to be replaced. I am seriously considering springing for double pane, it would make a huge insulation difference.
I haven't seen anyone build ducts yet but that is what I am planning on doing. My plan is to have triangular ducts that cut off the corner between the ceiling and the wall. This way I won't lose usable head room or floor space. It would cut into upper cabinet space but I didn't want upper cabinets anyway.

If for example your ducts are 10 in x 10 in = 100 in2 then a 4 in x 25 in would give you the same cross sectional area although not as high a flow rate as the original ducts. The best way to figure equivalent duct flow would be to find a duct size calculator online. Resistance in ductwork changes with the shape and size of the ducts. Circles are the most efficient followed by squares with rectangles having more resistance as they get skinnier.

If you are adding insulation you may not need to run the A/C blowers on the highest setting and may not need the capacity of the original ducts. Being able to run the A/C off the main engine will save run time and fuel for your generator. You would then have the generator and roof A/C when parked or as a back up if the engine driven went down.

To give you an idea of your roof A/C could handle cooling the bus while going down the highway look up the cooling capacity for your engine driven unit and compare that to the total of the roof tops. I'd bet the roof tops are less than half what the engine driven unit is.

Too bad the windows are only single pane. Double would be nice.

Ted
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Old 12-07-2019, 08:59 AM   #44
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Had a big demo weekend.
  • All the seats are out. This went pretty well, basically unbolted smoothly, only had to cut out two of the 22 seats
  • Got the bathroom area out. Holy crap was that a nightmare. The rivets and bolts were one thing, but then they used so much silicone caulking it a was fight to get it apart.
  • Started ripping up the floor. The diamond plate came up pretty easy, especially since the plywood underneath is in such bad shape.
  • The plywood underneath was about 50% disintegrated into a powder in most places. I have one 8' section done. Made me panic a little...the metal floor may be really really bad.
  • Good news, the rear of the bus floor isn't that bad! Decent amount of wiring brushing and rust converter and we'll be good. The section I pulled was around the rear wheel wells, which is normally a problem spot.
  • I pulled a section of roof panel to see if it was in fact foamed up there as well, it is!
  • What does everyone do with the chair rail? It's not structural is it? Can it just be cut off?
  • I'm debating about pulling the massive (it literally has fork lift supports to get it in and out) road a/c unit and just wiring the roof a/c to the house batteries. The area it's in would make an awesome garage with access from the bedroom or the rear. I was going to charge the house batteries off the alternator and the onboard 10kw generator, so I think it would be fine. Any thoughts?
My first bus was painted "Actic White", had 2" of spray foam, RV windows, Two RV roof airs and an 8 kw generator.

I thought that would keep me cool enough so I pulled the road a/c.

I was wrong......

Interstate 40 from AZ to TX in August with both a/c's on full blast and the drivers fans going. I was downright miserable. I was wearing nothing but a pair of shorts and was drenched in sweat.

You mentioned running three roof a/c's from an inverter and your starting batteries. I suggest that you run the numbers on the current requirements for keeping three roof airs happy.

To be continued... Damn!! I hate it when that happens. 15 minutes typing a response and poof it's gone.

I don't have time to recreate it so I'll give a very short one.

3 X RV roof a/c's will have a running current draw of approximately 42 amps @ 120v.

That would give you a (roughly) 420 Amp draw from your batteries / alternator..

So, you will need at least a 500 Amp alternator and 00 wire from the batteries to the inverter provided you keep the distance between thebatteries and inverter to less than four feet.

There is a lot more to it but I am out of time this morning.
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Old 12-08-2019, 08:57 PM   #45
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This is fantastic feedback guys. I think I could get the power requirements of the roof a/c units under control, question is what can the alternator handle...I'll have to figure that out. The generator can do all three... but i really don't want to run it all the time just to stay cool... that's a lot of diesel and generator wear. At this point I'm really weighing that extra ~30sqft of space mostly. The master bed would fit nicely in there over the engine bench. So is being hot sometimes worth it...

In other news the walls ARE spray foamed.. just not above the windows or behind the chair rail. So that's awesome. I got the last of the bars off the windows today, it was sort of the last thing that made it feel like a prison bus. We're getting there!
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Old 12-31-2019, 02:44 PM   #46
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Glass Instrument Cluster

I made some good progress getting the instrument data feeding to android. My ECM does not track air pressure, so I'll have to do that via Arduino and pressure transducer sensors. But otherwise, it looks like going full glass on the dash should work.
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Old 01-01-2020, 02:39 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Neorush View Post
I made some good progress getting the instrument data feeding to android. My ECM does not track air pressure, so I'll have to do that via Arduino and pressure transducer sensors. But otherwise, it looks like going full glass on the dash should work.
I see you have a bus that's very similiar to mine (I have a 2001 A3RE). Just wondering if the Bluefire app is capable of getting the odometer mileage from the ECM. The odometer on the dash is broken and was curious if the Bluefire reader can get it direct from the Cummins ECM.

I see a mileage number on your display but it looks like trip mileage?
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Old 01-01-2020, 01:48 PM   #48
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I see you have a bus that's very similiar to mine (I have a 2001 A3RE). Just wondering if the Bluefire app is capable of getting the odometer mileage from the ECM. The odometer on the dash is broken and was curious if the Bluefire reader can get it direct from the Cummins ECM.

I see a mileage number on your display but it looks like trip mileage?

That number is supposed to be the odometer mileage. Based on what I know of the bus it's almost like it was zeroed out when it was decommissioned. There is a separate number for the trip.
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Old 01-12-2020, 09:08 PM   #49
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Neorush,

Very cool display. If I had your skill I would make one for myself.

Id like to add an exhaust brake for my bus. Could you please post a couple of pictures of how/where your exhaust brake is mounted. If your exhaust is routed like mine I suspect it would have to be mounted after a cast 90 degree bend that attaches to the turbo outlet.

Thanks

Ted
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Old 01-12-2020, 09:15 PM   #50
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Neorush,

Very cool display. If I had your skill I would make one for myself.

Id like to add an exhaust brake for my bus. Could you please post a couple of pictures of how/where your exhaust brake is mounted. If your exhaust is routed like mine I suspect it would have to be mounted after a cast 90 degree bend that attaches to the turbo outlet.

Thanks

Ted
I have no idea what I'll be looking for but I'll see if I can find it.
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Old 01-12-2020, 09:41 PM   #51
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I have no idea what I'll be looking for but I'll see if I can find it.
Thanks. If you follow your exhaust from the muffler back to the turbo you should find something that looks like this. They can either mount directly to the turbo or with exhaust pipe between the turbo and exhaust brake.

Ted
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Old 01-13-2020, 07:52 AM   #52
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not sure how I missed that display!!.. looks great... I need to get something that allows me to make real gauges vs just numbers.. my trans data i can display real gauges but not my engine (yet)..



I didxnt read all the way back through.. are you using a Bluefire or another custom solution?


my glass engine data (left screen) is generic.. my trans data is a different program altogether it wont read engine data.


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-Christopher
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Old 01-13-2020, 08:49 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
not sure how I missed that display!!.. looks great... I need to get something that allows me to make real gauges vs just numbers.. my trans data i can display real gauges but not my engine (yet)..

I didxnt read all the way back through.. are you using a Bluefire or another custom solution?

my glass engine data (left screen) is generic.. my trans data is a different program altogether it wont read engine data.

Attachment 40709

-Christopher

Hey that looks great! I'm using bluefire. The big reason I went that way was they have an open API with a bunch of Java code with a sample app to get you started. I want to display info from the Bluefire Adapter on at least two tablets. Using their API I can push the bluefire data to a central data "server" which each android tablet can then access and display.
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Old 01-13-2020, 08:57 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Neorush View Post
Hey that looks great! I'm using bluefire. The big reason I went that way was they have an open API with a bunch of Java code with a sample app to get you started. I want to display info from the Bluefire Adapter on at least two tablets. Using their API I can push the bluefire data to a central data "server" which each android tablet can then access and display.



bluefire didnt exist when i did my setup close to 3 years ago.. I have a bluefire now and for that exact reason you mention, the open SDK.. since the datalink is of a "bus" nature you can also use 2 of them if you wish each going to its own tablet.. with a Y cable on the data link.. I BELIEVE they are fully J1708/1939 compliant where each data link will pick its own unique address and not stomp on each other..
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:37 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
bluefire didnt exist when i did my setup close to 3 years ago.. I have a bluefire now and for that exact reason you mention, the open SDK.. since the datalink is of a "bus" nature you can also use 2 of them if you wish each going to its own tablet.. with a Y cable on the data link.. I BELIEVE they are fully J1708/1939 compliant where each data link will pick its own unique address and not stomp on each other..

I debated about using a "Y" adapter and going this route actually. But I figure if I push somewhere else I could also push that info to the back of the bus, my phone etc. If say we were idling for some reason and I was away from the driver seat. On top of that the adapters are $190 each.
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Old 02-26-2020, 08:35 AM   #56
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Quick Update

Quick Update:
  • I've been continuing to work on gutting the bus, quick pro tip EVERYTHING IS HARDER TO TAKE APART ON A FEDERAL PRISON BUS. From getting the bars off the windows to the covers off the emergency hatch and a/c units. I swear even some of the wall rivets are beefier than a standard school bus.
  • I only have the driver side wall sheet metal to remove and we're just about done with the interior!
  • Next I have to remove the rear A/C unit. Trying to estimate the unit weight / decide if my 50hp Kubota tractor would tip over even with the winch on if I try and pull it out with the bucket forks. It also appears I will have to remove the entire back panel of the bus to get it out, which might make the roof raise easier anyway.
  • After that I'll be doing a roof raise! We're going to be going for around 12". I want the head room without the humpback whale look. I attached a Photoshop vision of what I'd like the lines to look like, ignore window placement. May or may not be possible once I take a look at how the front corners are put together.
  • I'm going to be welding some patches in the floor soon, I've read on a few other threads about disconnecting the main ECU(?), maybe the batteries? What should I disconnect to make sure I don't fry anything?
I've been posting more regularly on Instagram and Facebook.
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Old 02-26-2020, 08:58 AM   #57
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Disconnecting the batteries is the usual precaution.

When welding, you're making an electric circuit. The closer you have your (welders) grounding clamp to the work, the better. This prevents running the welders power 'through' a component that can't take it...

Makes total sense that your bus is even harder to get apart than normal...

That roof raise will blend right nicely. Will look like a rail-car.
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Old 02-26-2020, 09:28 PM   #58
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What banman said ... your proposed transiion looks good.
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Old 02-27-2020, 08:43 AM   #59
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Structural Rivets

I made a similar post on Instagram and another skoolie builder pointed out that I was probably dealing with "structural" rivets. Sure enough, most of the bus is put together with the beefier structural rivets, not the lighter duty ones typically used to hold these panels on. Good times.
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Old 02-28-2020, 08:16 AM   #60
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I bought my bus from a guy in Houston (Jason Freund). He had a similar looking bus for sale (Yours may be it.). I bought a 2009 Blue Bird All-American. It was an old DHS bus. There are good videos on YouTube for rivet removal. I bought a cheap ($13) air hammer from Harbor Freight Tools and a 3 Pack of attachments. You will need a compressor. The larger tank the better. Use the round punch to take out the center of the rivet. Grind the chisel down on one of the broad sides so that it is rounded over towards the tip. Start the chisel at a 45 degree angle to the rivet head with the flat side facing you. Once the chisel gets under the rivet head move the air hammer towards the surface and press against the rivet stem. I used this for taking the ceiling sheets off. I went back and punched out some the remaining parts of the rivet stem that were wedged in the remaining hole. Hope this helps.
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