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09-12-2018, 12:10 PM
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#1
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Primer...
Admins/Mods,
You guys have been slacking in that there are no stickies with Primer in the title.
Members,
You guys are almost as slack as the Admins/Mods. There are only a handful of threads (most VERY old) with primer in the title. The newest being 2017 and priming engines for starting. Phfft.
With that out of the way, some questions:
1) BRAND specific, what is the recommendation for exterior automotive paint primers? I'm fine with using oil based primers and that's what I'm looking for (I think).
2) Are Ospho, Corroseal, etc. rust pretreatments needed/wanted if using a self etching primer?
3) Are two part (hardener) primers better? Will they work in conjunction with the rust treatments?
4) With roughly 400 sq ft to prime, how much do I need (quart, gallon)?
5) What short cuts are acceptable?
I know that last one is a loaded question. I'm not looking to roll on latex exterior paint. But I'm also not looking for having to do 6 coats of paint with sanding between every step. I'm not looking to turn the bus into a show car. That requires far too much patience much less money.
I'll be using a sprayer albeit a $50 spray gun. I don't want to use the rust treatment only to mess the adhesion up by using an etching primer over top of it. I'm envisioning huge sheets of paint peeling off. I've no idea if that is a thing or not. I know enough not to use house paint but that's about it.
The sheet metal I have was bought last year. It's inside the bus and only has surface rust on one sheet and only where water was dripping on it. It's steel and 16 gauge 4x8 and 4x10 sheets. Aside from that, I don't know what coatings it has or doesn't have.
It looks something like this:
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09-12-2018, 12:30 PM
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#2
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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For your purposes I'd just use Rusto. Gallons, not spray cans. Add a hardener to the exterior paint.
I get gallons of Rusto primer for $25.
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09-12-2018, 12:48 PM
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#3
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
For your purposes I'd just use Rusto. Gallons, not spray cans.
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I did that for interior and exterior only quart not gallon in the colors I wanted. Should have used gallon on interior since it's needing redone.
Quote:
Add a hardener to the exterior paint.
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I didn't do this. Directions (I think) didn't mention hardener. It mentioned thinning it for the sprayer but that's about it. I do still have an empty can I could read.
Quote:
I get gallons of Rusto primer for $25.
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Paint or primer? It was $17 I think for a quart of paint. But then it wasn't John Deer green or FarmAll red either. Nor was it plain old white, black, gray, whatever.
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09-12-2018, 01:07 PM
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#4
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewerbob
I did that for interior and exterior only quart not gallon in the colors I wanted. Should have used gallon on interior since it's needing redone.
I didn't do this. Directions (I think) didn't mention hardener. It mentioned thinning it for the sprayer but that's about it. I do still have an empty can I could read.
Paint or primer? It was $17 I think for a quart of paint. But then it wasn't John Deer green or FarmAll red either. Nor was it plain old white, black, gray, whatever.
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Paint OR primer are $25 a gallon here.
The hardener is at tractor supply. "majick" brand or something like that. Enamel hardener. You don't have to use it. But its good to use it on the exterior.
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09-12-2018, 01:15 PM
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#5
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
Paint OR primer are $25 a gallon here.
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That's because you don't live in the Land of Jacked Up Prices.
Quote:
The hardener is at tractor supply. "majick" brand or something like that. Enamel hardener. You don't have to use it. But its good to use it on the exterior.
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Is that legal? If I use Rusto paint with Acme hardener, won't it explode or something? I don't normally believe in all the hype on labels. Use only Kraft mayo with Starkist tuna because we own both companies and love our profit margins.
But with my luck, Rusto can't be combined with ANY hardener or can't be combined with this brand because secret ingredients that have a chemical reaction.
I can tell you what happens when you mix acetone with a water based paint. You get separated milk. The first can of Rusto was water based and I grabbed it because some a-hole left it in the oil based section. Right color, right brand, ... I'm good to go. Add thinner, shake can, and what the hell?!!?
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09-12-2018, 01:26 PM
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#6
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewerbob
That's because you don't live in the Land of Jacked Up Prices.
Is that legal? If I use Rusto paint with Acme hardener, won't it explode or something? I don't normally believe in all the hype on labels. Use only Kraft mayo with Starkist tuna because we own both companies and love our profit margins.
But with my luck, Rusto can't be combined with ANY hardener or can't be combined with this brand because secret ingredients that have a chemical reaction.
I can tell you what happens when you mix acetone with a water based paint. You get separated milk. The first can of Rusto was water based and I grabbed it because some a-hole left it in the oil based section. Right color, right brand, ... I'm good to go. Add thinner, shake can, and what the hell?!!?
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I've painted a whole bus and half another with Rusto + enamel hardener. It won't blow up.
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09-12-2018, 01:29 PM
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#7
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2018
Location: topeka kansas
Posts: 1,769
Year: 1954
Coachwork: wayne
Chassis: old f500- new 2005 f-450
Engine: cummins 12 valve
Rated Cap: 20? five rows of 4?
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paint system
primer color coat later on clear coat the bummer is if dont do this right, the clear coat is not going to stick.
all the same brand to avoid interaction problems....
urethane paint ppg deltron primers on up.
william
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09-18-2018, 06:03 PM
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#8
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Philadelpiha Pennsylvania
Posts: 397
Year: 2007
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: FE Bus
Engine: DT-466 7.6L Turbo Diesel
Rated Cap: 77
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Oil or Acrylic for the exterior? I'm about to do mine.
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09-19-2018, 08:04 AM
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#9
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMORGANSKOOL
Oil or Acrylic for the exterior? I'm about to do mine.
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I'm thinking oil. Don't know what acrylic costs or if it's easily available.
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09-19-2018, 08:41 AM
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#10
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
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Oil or alkyd (NOT to be confused with acrylic). Best for metal. Water based paint is caca on metal. Detroit has been trying to make it work to keep the EPA happy but with piss poor results even with all their high tech application & drying systems.
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09-19-2018, 08:48 AM
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#11
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
Oil or alkyd (NOT to be confused with acrylic). Best for metal. Water based paint is caca on metal. Detroit has been trying to make it work to keep the EPA happy but with piss poor results even with all their high tech application & drying systems.
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Thx for the correction. I thought that sounded funny.
So what's the difference (prep, mixing, application, drying, whatever else) between oil and alkyd? And how hard is it to get?
Rustoleum in hammered green was bad enough. Driving all over to the small Ace Hardware locations to buy it a quart at a time.
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09-19-2018, 08:50 AM
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#12
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
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Alkyd dries quicker and is usually a bit cheaper. Can also be tougher than most oil based paints so all in all it can be a good choice.
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09-19-2018, 08:58 AM
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#13
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
Alkyd dries quicker and is usually a bit cheaper. Can also be tougher than most oil based paints so all in all it can be a good choice.
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Oh great, there are water based alkyds as well.
And then there's enamel.
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09-19-2018, 09:04 AM
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#14
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
.
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One of you crusty old basstards with 137 yrs experience in a body shop needs to do a thorough write-up of painting sheet metal and/or painting over bus paint.
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09-19-2018, 12:06 PM
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#15
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
Oil or alkyd (NOT to be confused with acrylic). Best for metal. Water based paint is caca on metal. Detroit has been trying to make it work to keep the EPA happy but with piss poor results even with all their high tech application & drying systems.
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Not just Detroit. My 2013 Subaru looks like it was painted at the local high school shop class. And looks like it gone one QUICK coat.
Water based paint is the pits!
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09-19-2018, 12:14 PM
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#16
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
Not just Detroit. My 2013 Subaru looks like it was painted at the local high school shop class. And looks like it gone one QUICK coat.
Water based paint is the pits!
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Except for the size of the crater it's going to make when you blow it up , do you have anything nice to say about your Subaru?
Just baiting you. I've got no love for Subaru. My nemesis is the Nissan Sentra.
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09-19-2018, 12:33 PM
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#17
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewerbob
Except for the size of the crater it's going to make when you blow it up , do you have anything nice to say about your Subaru?
Just baiting you. I've got no love for Subaru. My nemesis is the Nissan Sentra.
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I've just been paying the payments and keeping it parked so that the mileage stays low. I'll be dumping it at a Carmax this year.
Will be GLAD to see that pos gone!
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09-19-2018, 12:46 PM
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#18
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
I've just been paying the payments and keeping it parked so that the mileage stays low.
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Good plan.
Quote:
I'll be dumping it at a Carmax this year.
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Not so good a plan. Unless your CarMAx is a WHOLE lot better than here, they are going to rip you off. They offered the Ginger about half the book value on her Murano.
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09-19-2018, 01:05 PM
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#19
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewerbob
Good plan.
Not so good a plan. Unless your CarMAx is a WHOLE lot better than here, they are going to rip you off. They offered the Ginger about half the book value on her Murano.
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Book is 13k. First dealer to offer me more than 8500 can have it. I couldn't sell it privately. I hate the car too much to be able to look someone in the eye and say anything nice about it.
The transmission and clutch are dying and its burning oil. But according to Subaru its all fine and 100% within spec.
I've put out feelers and I think it will sell quickly when I do go to dump it. Just like my house. Worth a LOT more to someone else than to me.
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09-19-2018, 01:13 PM
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#20
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
Just like my house. Worth a LOT more to someone else than to me.
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Hope that's true for me too. Or at least worth what I owe on it.
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