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Old 05-23-2017, 10:33 AM   #901
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thus bus was levelled solid on blocks.. when they welded in the hat channel I know they levelled and straightened as needed..
-Christopher

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Old 05-23-2017, 10:36 AM   #902
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Aside from Nat's have you seen any full roof raises? There was the AZ or NM guy I was following for awhile. I think he was going to 13'6", triple bunks, or some such. Way too much.

Have you seen any full roofs in person?

Just wondering if it would make life easier. I don't know that I have a problem with the look or not.

Did you guys give it a good shake every 2" inches just for the sway? I'm guessing since it was on blocks it wouldn't do much good.
We shook it HARD. SuperDave had quite a fun time with that!
Once we put in a few rib extensions and clamped them down it all lined up perfect and was SOLID.
There are several full raises on here, just look around a bit.
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Old 05-23-2017, 10:53 AM   #903
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We shook it HARD. SuperDave had quite a fun time with that!
Once we put in a few rib extensions and clamped them down it all lined up perfect and was SOLID.
Not looking for the welding to be solid. Thinking more body roll. It's a bus so there will be a metric $hit ton but the whole top heavy thing.

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There are several full raises on here, just look around a bit.
Will do but any usernames off the top of your head?
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Old 05-23-2017, 10:56 AM   #904
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isnt the millicdent chronicles a full 2 foot raise? elliot naess I think?
-Christopher
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Old 05-23-2017, 10:59 AM   #905
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isnt the millicdent chronicles a full 2 foot raise? elliot naess I think?
-Christopher
Mkay. Didn't know he was a raise at all. His bus doesn't have a stepped raise so if it's raised, it must be a full.
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Old 05-23-2017, 11:09 AM   #906
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Not looking for the welding to be solid. Thinking more body roll. It's a bus so there will be a metric $hit ton but the whole top heavy thing.

Will do but any usernames off the top of your head?
The ten inches isn't really making it TOO top heavy. If anything it may keep it from rolling since it has more side area now, idk.
After carefully doing it all, I'm confident in its structural integrity. I WAS worried till I saw how it all went together so well. All that worrying and planning and stressing paid off and the whole thing went as smooth as one could hope for.

Millicent is one full raise, there was that bus Charles_M was "living in" which had a full raise. IDK what ever happened to that bus last I heard he was in Texas looking at CL buses??

Folks have done it, for sure.
When I tore my bus down, and looked at all my options, I liked the route I went the best for my bus and my needs.
Seems a little more aerodynamic, and reminds me of the older coaches' lines a bit.
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Old 06-11-2017, 11:20 AM   #907
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Got a gallon of Rust Reformer on the way. Cheapest I could find it was on Walmart.com.
Will be painting the transition area of the front with this along with any other exposed steel.
Will have plenty left over for parts of the shorty too.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Rust-Oleu...-of-2/21075269

SAME stuff is $150 a gallon anywhere else in a different, plastic jug.
I got the gallon can for $75 delivered!!!
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Old 06-11-2017, 04:07 PM   #908
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Just got back from the buses. Man, every time I walk through my raised roof bus I'm even more happy I went for it. BEST mod ever!
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:35 AM   #909
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Got a gallon of Rust Reformer on the way.
Why? Isn't your Ospho a rust reformer?
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:47 AM   #910
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Why? Isn't your Ospho a rust reformer?
Yeah, but the Rustoleum Rust reformer is like por15 only BETTER and half the price.
I use ospho a LOT.
But this stuff will permanently convert AND seal off the rust. Ospho just converts it.
After looking at some lab tests, I decided I'd try some of this out. Still LOVE my ospho though!
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Old 06-12-2017, 10:01 AM   #911
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Yeah, but the Rustoleum Rust reformer is like por15 only BETTER and half the price.
I use ospho a LOT.
But this stuff will permanently convert AND seal off the rust. Ospho just converts it.
After looking at some lab tests, I decided I'd try some of this out. Still LOVE my ospho though!
Lab test better than Ospho? As I recall Ospho + Rust-Oelum paint = $75
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Old 06-12-2017, 11:22 AM   #912
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Yeah, but the Rustoleum Rust reformer is like por15 only BETTER and half the price.
I use ospho a LOT.
But this stuff will permanently convert AND seal off the rust. Ospho just converts it.
After looking at some lab tests, I decided I'd try some of this out. Still LOVE my ospho though!
Just curious, how is the Rust Reformer different from Corroseal?
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:47 PM   #913
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Just curious, how is the Rust Reformer different from Corroseal?
Its way better.
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:48 PM   #914
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Lab test better than Ospho? As I recall Ospho + Rust-Oelum paint = $75
Ospho + Rustoleum + $50.
But Rust Reformer is different. Ever heard of POR15? its better that THAT and half the price.
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:52 PM   #915
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is it a brush on / roll on product? are you mixing rust reforner and rustoleum together or rust reformer first then rustoleum over?

ive used POR-15 since the mid 00's loved the stuff other than its $$$ and is a &^*$%&^ if you get any on you..

-Christopher
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:57 PM   #916
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is it a brush on / roll on product? are you mixing rust reforner and rustoleum together or rust reformer first then rustoleum over?

ive used POR-15 since the mid 00's loved the stuff other than its $$$ and is a &^*$%&^ if you get any on you..

-Christopher


I've ospho'd the ENTIRE bus.
The spots that are the worst will be painted with rust reformer the same way one would use POR15. After it dries it can be sanded and top coated. THe rust reformer is its own product, you don't mix it with anything.
Its literaly better than por15 for half the price.
I'm gonna be using it on both buses.
I still coat every bit of rust and bare metal with ospho because I use ospho like its water.

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Old 06-13-2017, 08:19 AM   #917
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Its way better.
Perhaps you could be a bit more specific?
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Old 06-13-2017, 09:12 AM   #918
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Perhaps you could be a bit more specific?
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Starting in the summer of 2010 Materials Conservator Jason Church and Materials Conservation Intern Anna Muto began a study comparing commercially available rust converters. A rust converter is a chemical treatment that turns iron oxide into a more stable form such as iron tannate. The advantage of a rust converter is the treatment is less invasive and the only surface treatment needed is a cleaning of loose rust and soiling generally with a wire brush. Rust converters have wide stretching usage in conservation, they are used from the stabilization of iron based museum artifacts and collections to iron architectural elements and outdoor sculpture.

This study is based on a widely read and quoted study done by CCI and published in 1995. Besides the numerous positives that this respected study has there are three aspects that we wanted to change. The first is the issue of age, this study was started in 1987 and has become outdated; the chemicals recommended are no longer available. The second issue is that the study did not go into much detail about quantifying the results of their testing. In this aspect we hope to improve on the CCI study. The third issue is timing; the original study was done with natural weathering over an eight year period. This is not actually a negative but a positive for the results of the study however our study will utilize NCPTT’s capabilities with accelerated weathering.

For this study we are using naturally weathered mild steel coupons cut with a mechanical sheer (as to not alter the surface of the metal) to 3”x6” the size of the QUV plates. Each of the front face of the plates will be treated with a rust converter, tested weathered and tested again. The products will be evaluated and ranked by rate of failure.
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The samples were evaluated by a variety of techniques before being treated with the rust convertor, after being treated, and every 200 hours (for a total of 1000 hours) of artificial weathering. In this study, naturally rusted samples were treated with five commercially available rust converters that were chosen for accessibility and chemical variance. With the exception of the “CCI Recipe” all of the chemicals are commercially available. The “CCI Receipt” was added to the study after a survey of chemicals used was sent out to metals conservators and the results were found that a majority of the conservator polled used this recipe as opposed to a commercially available product. To evaluate which rust converters function best over an extended period of time, NCPTT used several analytical techniques. Condition was assessed before treatment, after treatment, and at several points during artificial weathering. Photography was used to document physical appearance throughout the experiment. Colorimetry, magnetic induction thickness measurements, gloss measurements and laser profilometry together charted changes in the surface and coating of the samples. Finally, Fourier Transform Infrared Spectroscopy helped to characterize the primary chemical compounds present on the surface of the treated metal during the study.

The five chemicals chosen for this study are listed below. The chemicals were chosen to represent each of the major types of rust converters. The chemicals in each category were selected based on their popularity in the commercial market place. The goal of this study is to provide the end user be it home owner or museum conservator with the knowledge needed to make an informed decision when selecting a rust converter.

Rust-oleum® Rust Reformer® is a tannic acid based rust converting product. It also has an acrylic vinylidene chloride copolymer additive. Tannic acid acts as a chelating agent while the copolymer creates a protective coating. The product has a pH of 2.13, falling in the mid-range pH of this study’s converters. Rust Reformer® has a relatively thick consistency, and is blue-ish white in appearance.

OSPHO®, manufactured by the Skybryte Company, is a phosphoric acid based rust converting product balanced with dichromate and wetting agents. OSPHO® is by far the most acidic rust converter of those tested. The product’s pH is 0.08, and is a thin, translucent green liquid.
Quote:
Corroseal® is a rust converting product based in gallic acid. This converter is composed of gallic acid, ethylene glycol and acetate. It is relatively acidic, both generally and in comparison to other tested converters, with a pH of 1.50. Corroseal® is creamy white and has a thick consistency
Quote:
RCx427 is a product of Enviro-Safe Services, Inc. that uses oxalic acid as the rust converting compound. Like Corroseal®, it also incorporates ethylene glycol in the chemical composition. Oxalic acid as an active ingredient—a compound that exhibits different physical properties after conversion. Instead of causing the iron oxide layer to darken, it instead turns a light gray. Of the tested rust converters, this product is the least acidic with a pH of 3.11. RCx427 has a thick consistency and is a blue-gray color.
Quote:
The 10% Tannic Acid solution stands out from the other rust converters in that the solution is not commercially available but must be prepared. However, a survey of metal conservators done by conservation graduate student Rose Daly indicated that the “CCI Recipe” for tannic acid solution was used more often than commercially available rust converting products. As such, it was deemed important to include in the study. The preparation method outlined in the CCI Note “Tannic Acid Treatment” was followed (CCI Note, 1989). As directed, 2.75 mL of phosphoric acid was added to lower pH to 2.39, and fell into the mid-range of acidity in this study’s converters. The solution is thin and appears a translucent, orange-red color.

At the end of the accelerated weathering only the samples treated with Rust-oleum® Rust Reformer® showed no or only slight signs of any failure and no active corrosion. This research was completed in the summer of 2012, afterwards the results were presented at ICOM CC Metal 2013 in Edinburgh, Scotland. The results of the study were also published in the conference proceedings. Click here for pdf of paper.

The next phase of the study began in the summer of 2013 with Jason Church and intern Sarah Hunter looking at how rust converters react in a salt environment. In this current research the samples will run 200 hours accelerated weathering followed by four cycles of the SWAAT test.

For this phase of the study we are repeating the same tests and testing parameters on Rust-oleum® Rust Reformer® and four other commercially available rust converters. One of the main questions for this phase of the study is how do other rust converters chemically similar to Rust-oleum® Rust Reformer® preform and compare. For the phase two of the study we are comparing

Rust-oleum® Rust Reformer® is a tannic acid based rust converting product. It also has an acrylic vinylidene chloride copolymer additive. Tannic acid acts as a chelating agent while the copolymer creates a protective coating. The product has a pH of 2.13, falling in the mid-range pH of this study’s converters. Rust Reformer® has a relatively thick consistency, and is blue-ish white in appearance.
https://www.ncptt.nps.gov/blog/compa...st-converters/
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:28 PM   #919
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Man, that's a lotta words. I'll trust the "It's way better" summary.

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Old 06-13-2017, 11:49 PM   #920
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Man, that's a lotta words. I'll trust the "It's way better" summary.

Too many words to be fake - I am with Rameses
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