Rusty 87 build thread

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Native

I use both methods. First, I put a nut down the threads, then cut with a saw or cut-off disk, then use a flat file to bevel the edges. When the nut is removed, it takes off most all of the remaining burrs.

ive always cut all-thread with a nut on it.. ive always found it easier to take the nut off then it is to start one.. ive had to use impact before to get the but to unscrew but it usually straightens out the end so I can threasd it back on pretty easy when i need it

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

ive always cut all-thread with a nut on it.. ive always found it easier to take the nut off then it is to start one.. ive had to use impact before to get the but to unscrew but it usually straightens out the end so I can threasd it back on pretty easy when i need it

I tried this, but the problem is I'm welding on 1.25" lengths and it was difficult to cut short lengths like this so that each bit has a nut on it, and then I couldn't easily weld it in place with the nut there (since I'm using a small right angle magnet to align it), so I had to try and crank the nut off the piece through the burrs before welding. The rod I'm using is covered with scale, too - threaded rod seems to be the kind of small hardware store product that might sit for thirty five years before somebody buys it.

I think cutting the heads off bolts will work better, since I can weld in the cut end and have the factory-beveled end sticking up.

[musigenesis]

Got all three panels screwed in now. I tossed the threaded rod and bought 1.5" bolts and cut the heads off and welded those in instead. Somehow I managed to not weld a single one in upside-down, yay me. A simple joy to be able to just spin a nut right down.

I got to the point where I can weld one of these in with three small spots and there's very little weld sticking up or out. The last of the three trays I didn't even have to do any grinding and none of the bolts twisted out. It helped a lot that I took a flap disk and cleaned the metal around the holes.



Put the wood floor panel back on temporarily with a few screws. Just drove the bus this afternoon, and this is the first time I've ever driven it when there wasn't a bunch of loose steel sheets and plywood rattling around in the back every time I hit small bump. Everything is firmly attached and no more clattering.

[JDSquared]

looking awesome

[DrDanger]

I just caught up on your thread, and to be honest, I would have quit a long time ago if I had to deal with all the rust you are battling through. Good on ya!

I guess the good news is that at the end of it you will basically have a totally new bus! Hahaha!

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by DrDanger

I just caught up on your thread, and to be honest, I would have quit a long time ago if I had to deal with all the rust you are battling through. Good on ya!

I guess the good news is that at the end of it you will basically have a totally new bus! Hahaha!

Yeah, my bus is going to be 1/3 welding wire and 1/3 seam sealer by the end of this.

FWIW as much as I like to complain in my head, in a way the rust hasn't really added that much to what I've had to do. I was originally planning to do a roof raise, and rebuilding my floor in the way I'm doing it gets me out of having to do the raise. It's hard for me to say whether a roof raise would have taken me more or less time, effort and money (I had some pretty nutty ideas for it).

Repairing my back corner was purely a rust-caused problem, but that was good practice for tackling the floor. I started this project so I could learn to fabricate and it's certainly giving me plenty of opportunities for that.

[banman]

I highly recommend you treat yourself to an auto-darkening helmet.
Plenty of decent options for under a $100.

You can try brass nuts on your threads to protect them from weld spatter goobering up the threads if that's one of the issues. Or maybe a piece of copper pipe to cover the threads...

Another way I've used instead of allthread. Drill a larger hole and tap a carriage bolt in. Now you're welding the square of the carriage bolt into the gaps around the drilled hole. This will be a lot easier to keep/weld flush and off the threads. I realize access wont' always allow this but where it will you'll have a stronger product.
Be sure and don't get zinc plated bolts...
And carriage bolts do come in grade 5, just gotta check around but Tractor Supply should have them for ex.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by banman

I highly recommend you treat yourself to an auto-darkening helmet.
Plenty of decent options for under a $100.

You can try brass nuts on your threads to protect them from weld spatter goobering up the threads if that's one of the issues. Or maybe a piece of copper pipe to cover the threads...

Another way I've used instead of allthread. Drill a larger hole and tap a carriage bolt in. Now you're welding the square of the carriage bolt into the gaps around the drilled hole. This will be a lot easier to keep/weld flush and off the threads. I realize access wont' always allow this but where it will you'll have a stronger product.
Be sure and don't get zinc plated bolts...
And carriage bolts do come in grade 5, just gotta check around but Tractor Supply should have them for ex.

I do have an auto-darkening helmet (although a better one would not hurt). My gear is no excuse for my welding quality.

You suggested the carriage bolt idea before and I tried it, but I didn't have any easier a time a welding it in and keeping the weld from creeping up. I probably could have gotten better at it with practice, but I've also gotten better at the threaded rod/bolt thing with practice, too.

I did use galvanized bolts as I couldn't find any non-zinc bolts other than stainless. Where I'm using them here, the bolts don't need to be grade 5 since they won't be exposed to any huge stresses. They're mainly there to keep the sheet metal socked down to the angle steel it's resting on.

[musigenesis]

Just a few remaining openings in the floor to weld up (plus tons of bolt and screw holes). I'm hoping to get the floor closed up by Friday so I can drive the bus back to my lot, ospho the hell out of it inside and out, then take it to the car wash to give it the biggest bath of its life on Monday when we're supposed to have some pretty warm weather. Hopefully I won't power-wash the transmission off or anything like that.











It's official! Didn't have any champagne so I drank a diet Sunkist instead.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Just a few remaining openings in the floor to weld up (plus tons of bolt and screw holes). I'm hoping to get the floor closed up by Friday so I can drive the bus back to my lot, ospho the hell out of it inside and out, then take it to the car wash to give it the biggest bath of its life on Monday when we're supposed to have some pretty warm weather. Hopefully I won't power-wash the transmission off or anything like that.

Attachment 41208

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It's official! Didn't have any champagne so I drank a diet Sunkist instead.

Attachment 41213

Whats wrong with power washing the transmission?

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by kidharris

Whats wrong with power washing the transmission?

Well nothing, hopefully, just a joke about the generally rusty state of my underside. Seems like a transmission would take a few decades to rust away.

I am apprehensive about power-washing the underside, though. The ABS already got disabled by the guy who did the demo on my floor, and I'm worried about inadvertently doing something similar.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Well nothing, hopefully, just a joke about the generally rusty state of my underside. Seems like a transmission would take a few decades to rust away.

I am apprehensive about power-washing the underside, though. The ABS already got disabled by the guy who did the demo on my floor, and I'm worried about inadvertently doing something similar.

maybe you should think about leaving some fans and heaters running to help dry it faster and more thoroughly.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by kidharris

maybe you should think about leaving some fans and heaters running to help dry it faster and more thoroughly.

Yeah, I'm hoping to do the power washing on Sunday and then I can basically leave the bus open in 50F+ weather for two days to dry out. I'm excited by this stretch of warm weather because I think I can paint enough of my new frame section and the chassis there that I'll be able to put my metal trays in permanently with seam sealer. I was thinking I would have to wait until spring to do that.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Yeah, I'm hoping to do the power washing on Sunday and then I can basically leave the bus open in 50F+ weather for two days to dry out. I'm excited by this stretch of warm weather because I think I can paint enough of my new frame section and the chassis there that I'll be able to put my metal trays in permanently with seam sealer. I was thinking I would have to wait until spring to do that.

Have you phosphated it? (painted/brushed it with phosphoric acid like "Must for Rust" or Ospho)


Must For Rust info links

https://www.rustoleum.com.au/product...and-inhibitor/

I first heard of phosphoric acid metal prep back in the 1970s from a shop doing whole body classic car restoration using fluidized beds to sand every tiny space/crack in the body and then spray it with phosphoric acid. They also did gas tanks inside and out, which was why I was there. The fluidized bed was a open top dumpster looking box filled with sand. I was mounted on springs, in a concrete pit, and was vibrated by an air powered piston. They put the car in on top of the sand and turned it on. The car sank like it was in quicksand, after a while they sucked all of the sand out, hoisted out the car, dusted it off with air, washed it with phosphoric acid, let it sit, rinsed with h2o, dried with air and delivered it to the customer to be finished.

tinmantech.com is where I first heard of the product "Must For Rust". It was called MP-7 back then, if you go to this link, click the FAQ tab under the price list

https://www.tinmantech.com/products/...t-for-rust.php


The tinmantech.com used to be a very intesting site years ago before it became commercialized. There is still a lot of interesting info there

https://www.tinmantech.com/education/articles/

[banman]

RE: the powerwash --

Be careful not to directly blast parts like the U-joints, ball-joints, carrier bearings, electrical plugs & modules. Seals on the transmission -- anywhere a linkage goes in/out of the transmission is an area to avoid blasting!

Think about how these seals are to keep rain/road splash off/out of the component but NOT a high-pressure wash -- you will get water/dirt into the component that cannot come out...

Also -- DO NOT wash a hot exhaust or turbo -- they will crack from thermal shock...

[musigenesis]

I've been looking for a small washing machine, and I came across this Sirocco thing on CL:





It's from the '80s or maybe before, but if it's still working that's a good sign. Anybody ever use one of these? I mainly like it because it's 20"x20"x18" and I might be able to position it over my fuel tank pipe and still keep it under the windows.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by banman

Also -- DO NOT wash a hot exhaust or turbo -- they will crack from thermal shock...

How far back on the exhaust would I have to worry about this? And if I drive to a car wash, how long should I wait for it to cool off? Also, where is my turbo? I have no idea.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

I've been looking for a small washing machine, and I came across this Sirocco thing on CL:

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It's from the '80s or maybe before, but if it's still working that's a good sign. Anybody ever use one of these? I mainly like it because it's 20"x20"x18" and I might be able to position it over my fuel tank pipe and still keep it under the windows.

If it is like these, it was probably not used much and the 30-40 year old plastic is probably brittle. Wouldn't expect it to last very long. Seems these mini washers are popular in Europe? Appears to be portable so no permanent space required.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CABjDQ8li2g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgEfqpg8DkA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POFfptS9j5g

more modern

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6enym2Ec4Q

Different brands... permanant mounts, kinda cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS6zE90gppo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx4K_v0VCPY

mounting instructions...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y4yiDump5Y

[musigenesis]

Those Daewoo washers look great and the form factor is exactly what I'm looking for. $550 is kinda steep though. I think it would take about 400 loads to pay for itself (compared to a laundromat).

[banman]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

How far back on the exhaust would I have to worry about this? And if I drive to a car wash, how long should I wait for it to cool off? Also, where is my turbo? I have no idea.

The turbo housing, adapting elbows, and exhaust manifold are usually cast iron which is much more susceptible to thermal shock than the steel exhaust pipe further downstream. Also, the exhaust manifold and turbo will the closest to the engine and thus hotter in operation.

If you take my saab out on a good hwy run and pull over and lift the hood on a dark night the turbo will be the part glowing a dull orange -- nearly 2000°F
Not bragging -- this is normal for a saab 9000 -- and if you hit that with water it will crack -- no two ways about it...

I think diesel turbos run a little cooler than gas turbos but still more than hot enough to have the same issue.

To find your turbocharger, follow the piping from your exhaust manifold. It's the device (google an image if you're not pulling my leg...) with exhaust gas flowing through it at one end and another pipe/hose pushing air into your engine air intake...

and 'cause I know you're not pulling my leg...
It appears the turbo IS bolted directly to your exhaust manifold (typical, but not required). It's the circular shaped part just above and to the right of the filter in this pic.
https://www.nationwideheavytruckpart...national-dt466