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Old 05-02-2020, 02:41 PM   #781
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Originally Posted by Native View Post
It will be interesting to see how well the plug-welds work on rusty metal.
I think "interesting" is an overly generous choice of words...

Hit the places you're going to weld with a flap disc or even run your drill through the holes in the patches into the rusty floor a bit.

Also, switching your mig back to arc (if you dial the heat low enough) will do a little better welding rusty metal. In general mig likes clean metal compared to arc...

And in this the weld spatter won't show -- I'm sure you're gonna wire wheel, ospho, and paint regardless after the holes are patched.

Another approach altogether would be to place the patch below the hole (you cut out) held with a magnet, and then you can tack & stitch-weld the entire perimeter of the hole. I would still cover the finished weld with seam sealer.
Now you won't have any 'bulge' in your insulation or subfloor framing.
paint (lightly) the patch with a weld through primer before welding. The patches will blend in with your yellow paint as you cover the under-belly...

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Old 05-02-2020, 02:54 PM   #782
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I'm not letting it run completely out of gas before refilling - there's still a bit in the bottom of the tank. I don't know if there's a filter between the tank and the carburetor, I bought it on Craigslist a year ago and it's been running fine the whole year, except for this recent problem.

It's a Craftsman 2400 like this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sears-Craft...0/292954359152
it should have a little inline filter on it and if it dont it needs one but i think it just needs a filter replacement or add and if it doesnt have one some carburetor cleaner sprayed in it through the air filter.
the carb cleaner is good but can act like a starting fluid.
i think your filter is stopped up is why it wont start for a few days and it takes time for the fuel to get through the filter to the carb bowl?
while its running its pulling the fuel through maybe just enough but when shut off the fuel isnt quite there because of the filter not letting enough through to fill the carb bowl until it has time.
and this dang gum ethanol fuel dont help our mess either but more on that if//as needed
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Old 05-02-2020, 03:15 PM   #783
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i would have at least 1/2-3/4 inch holes to do any plug welding?
a 1/4 inch hole is gonna fill to fast for you to be able to see if you connected the circle with wire.
i stick for a living so any plug i have to do is turn the machine up and burn through the old stock to the new stock and then back the rod up to make the plug.
need a bigger hole for trying to plug weld with wire to make sure you make the connection just starting in the center and filling it in is not it especially if you want to grind it flat.
might as well just pop rivet it?
bigger hole lets you run the edges of the hole and fill it level if wanted.
they actually make a ceramic washer made for plug welding that is 5/8 to 3/4 inch ID for welding roof decking.
you set the ceramic washer down where you need it and of course hold it and then inside the washer burn through the decking into the structural steel to weld the two together.
but it is corrugated so you dont have to worry about grinding it flat for the finishing trade.
but its called in the welding world welding washers if anyone cares
the ceramic washer contains the puddle created from melting through the sheetmetal and the welding rod onto the structural steel .
sorry i had it in my head and it came out????
wire weld is a completely different animal and you have to drill holes for plug welding and and any type of wire weldin dose not like paint or rust.
wish you luck
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Old 05-02-2020, 11:14 PM   #784
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Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223 View Post
i would have at least 1/2-3/4 inch holes to do any plug welding?
a 1/4 inch hole is gonna fill to fast for you to be able to see if you connected the circle with wire.
i stick for a living so any plug i have to do is turn the machine up and burn through the old stock to the new stock and then back the rod up to make the plug.
need a bigger hole for trying to plug weld with wire to make sure you make the connection just starting in the center and filling it in is not it especially if you want to grind it flat.
might as well just pop rivet it?
bigger hole lets you run the edges of the hole and fill it level if wanted.
they actually make a ceramic washer made for plug welding that is 5/8 to 3/4 inch ID for welding roof decking.
you set the ceramic washer down where you need it and of course hold it and then inside the washer burn through the decking into the structural steel to weld the two together.
but it is corrugated so you dont have to worry about grinding it flat for the finishing trade.
but its called in the welding world welding washers if anyone cares
the ceramic washer contains the puddle created from melting through the sheetmetal and the welding rod onto the structural steel .
sorry i had it in my head and it came out????
wire weld is a completely different animal and you have to drill holes for plug welding and and any type of wire weldin dose not like paint or rust.
wish you luck
Hey I enjoyed reading about the ceramic washers. I haven't been around those... We use ceramic backing pads with adhesive but never seen the washers! Sounds kind of cool.
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Old 05-03-2020, 12:14 AM   #785
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Hey I enjoyed reading about the ceramic washers. I haven't been around those... We use ceramic backing pads with adhesive but never seen the washers! Sounds kind of cool.
I'm not familiar with either of these animals -- might be time to learn some new tricks!
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Old 05-03-2020, 12:20 AM   #786
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I seem to remember Musigenesis tried a ceramic backing in this very thread.
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Old 05-03-2020, 12:41 AM   #787
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I seem to remember Musigenesis tried a ceramic backing in this very thread.
I'll reveal my sh!tty memory -- I 'think' MG used a ceramic floor tile -- and it didn't work so good...

Frochevy & Jollyroger are talking about a very welding specific product -- I'll have to check it out... But even better if they can throw down a link...
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Old 05-03-2020, 02:01 AM   #788
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I'll reveal my sh!tty memory -- I 'think' MG used a ceramic floor tile -- and it didn't work so good...

Frochevy & Jollyroger are talking about a very welding specific product -- I'll have to check it out... But even better if they can throw down a link...
Now that you say it, I think it was a ceramic tile. Memory ... what was I saying?


Links might be a good thing about now.
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Old 05-03-2020, 06:47 AM   #789
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Now that you say it, I think it was a ceramic tile. Memory ... what was I saying?


Links might be a good thing about now.
I can't find it - probably for the best. I think the type of tile I used still had a bit of moisture in the ceramic, so that as soon as the arc went through it, it exploded.
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Old 05-03-2020, 09:20 AM   #790
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I can't find it - probably for the best. I think the type of tile I used still had a bit of moisture in the ceramic, so that as soon as the arc went through it, it exploded.
I thought I had sent a link in this build thread of what we use at work.... They're expensive tho... Here's a link to show what they are and at the bottom of you click there (it's a PDF) shows you all the crazy types they make.

http://www.itw-welding.com/en/consumables/ceramic-backing.html

I think we use arcair brand at work.
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Old 05-03-2020, 03:46 PM   #791
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Thank you for the link. I'll have to check for them the next time I am in the welding supply store.
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Old 05-03-2020, 05:29 PM   #792
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I thought I had sent a link in this build thread of what we use at work.... They're expensive tho... Here's a link to show what they are and at the bottom of you click there (it's a PDF) shows you all the crazy types they make.

ITW Welding, Welding Machines, Induction Heating, Welding Consumables and Accessories. www.itw-welding.com

I think we use arcair brand at work.
Followed the link -- thanks -- that's neat to see a whole 'nother level of thinking and working metal out there... Definitely production/professional level stuff.
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Old 05-03-2020, 06:35 PM   #793
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1.5" angle steel for mounting the seat belt tethers. 7/16" Grade 8 bolt with the head welded on the underside. Hit everything I won't be able to reach with weld-through primer, also coated the bolt heads with the 'tron since the primer didn't seem to be sticking to it or the welds really well.

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Welded in place with flux core.

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Plug experiment.

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Plug experiment fail. I thought it was working well but with the crowbar the plugs all popped out, not having fused with the sheet at all.

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I still had the flux core in the machine. On this second one the plugs held, but I still decided to switch back to solid wire since I got a fresh tank of Ar/CO2 yesterday.

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This was a bit difficult, but I just realized while posting this that I forgot to switch the polarity of my welder back for MIG.

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Test-attaching the seat belt tethers.

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Bolted (4/5 anyway) the sill for my back door. This is the last bit of 3" angle steel that my hired welder bought - everything got used.

I would say that the single hardest thing for me to do right now is to drill holes in metal, and I don't know why this is the case as it's pretty simple in concept. I somehow trashed my last three 7/16" metal bits for these four and a half lousy holes.

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This thing has solidified the back pretty well. I'm also going to be shoring up the crossmember just ahead of this (where the floor seam is) with a single piece of 1.5" angle steel underneath that runs from side to side, bolted through the floor to a piece of flat bar on top. With the bumper caps off, there just happens to be one spot that I can get the angle steel in.

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Old 05-03-2020, 06:41 PM   #794
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wire welder?
bigger plug weld holes.
stick welder you burn through and carry the metal with the rod
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Old 05-03-2020, 06:57 PM   #795
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Solid progress!

Are you drilling progressively bigger pilot holes like, 1/8" 1/4" then drilling to 7/16" and are you using a bit of oil to help keep the bit cool?

Once you "burn" the bit, it looses it's temper and even when you resharpen the bit it won't stay sharp.
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Old 05-03-2020, 07:16 PM   #796
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Solid progress!

Are you drilling progressively bigger pilot holes like, 1/8" 1/4" then drilling to 7/16" and are you using a bit of oil to help keep the bit cool?

Once you "burn" the bit, it looses it's temper and even when you resharpen the bit it won't stay sharp.

This is what I always do, start with a small bit and step up to requires size. Slow drill speed is better for bits in this type of work.


Question about your welds. I notice you don't seem to be chipping any of them. Is there no slag sitting there on the welds? If there is slag I would be concerned of the penetration. I just have never seen this method before but ask for clarification.


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Old 05-03-2020, 07:17 PM   #797
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Are you drilling progressively bigger pilot holes like, 1/8" 1/4" then drilling to 7/16" and are you using a bit of oil to help keep the bit cool?
None of the above! But I never did that when I drilled all the 7/16" holes for my wheel well floor repair and I didn't have this kind of problem. I'm at least going to try the oil thing, once I score some more bits.

Do you know of a good source of metal-cutting bits that delivers fairly quickly?
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Old 05-03-2020, 08:25 PM   #798
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None of the above! But I never did that when I drilled all the 7/16" holes for my wheel well floor repair and I didn't have this kind of problem. I'm at least going to try the oil thing, once I score some more bits.

Do you know of a good source of metal-cutting bits that delivers fairly quickly?
The thicker the metal you're drilling the more important it is to drill it in steps.

At this point I'd just get a 20% off coupon and go to harbor fright and get their cobalt or titanium drill index. If you can catch the item on sale and use the 20% off coupon their prices are great!

At this point it's hard to find tools of superior quality -- I cherish the drill index I have from my dad -- I remember it from when I was 8, I'm 56 now -- I've sharpened 'em a couple times -- plenty of meat left...

From my early aircraft daze the army would get boxes of 1/8" bits 3 inches long, sharpened on both sides for riveting -- they were considered expendable and thrown away when both ends were dulled. I still have more of these than I'll ever use -- they resharpen just fine if you know how to use a grinder...

Oh, and forgetting to swap the polarity after swapping mig to arc wire is better than forgetting to turn the gas off...
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Old 05-03-2020, 11:23 PM   #799
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It was mentioned to use a slower drill speed. This is really one of the most important thing to remember. When you get a good cut going, you will make little (very sharp) spirals of metal. A fair amount of pressure helps alot as well.
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Old 05-04-2020, 05:42 AM   #800
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Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223 View Post
i would have at least 1/2-3/4 inch holes to do any plug welding?
a 1/4 inch hole is gonna fill to fast for you to be able to see if you connected the circle with wire.
i stick for a living so any plug i have to do is turn the machine up and burn through the old stock to the new stock and then back the rod up to make the plug.
need a bigger hole for trying to plug weld with wire to make sure you make the connection just starting in the center and filling it in is not it especially if you want to grind it flat.
might as well just pop rivet it?
bigger hole lets you run the edges of the hole and fill it level if wanted.
they actually make a ceramic washer made for plug welding that is 5/8 to 3/4 inch ID for welding roof decking.
you set the ceramic washer down where you need it and of course hold it and then inside the washer burn through the decking into the structural steel to weld the two together.
but it is corrugated so you dont have to worry about grinding it flat for the finishing trade.
but its called in the welding world welding washers if anyone cares
the ceramic washer contains the puddle created from melting through the sheetmetal and the welding rod onto the structural steel .
sorry i had it in my head and it came out????
wire weld is a completely different animal and you have to drill holes for plug welding and and any type of wire weldin dose not like paint or rust.
wish you luck

interesting
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