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Old 05-07-2020, 09:58 PM   #841
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Originally Posted by banman View Post
Reminds me that I meant to warn you about that...
The rusty dusty then coated with ospho probably increased the diameter of your bolt and decreased the diameter of the nut if you painted that with ospho as well...
Thanks for not warning me! I'd like to think I would have left it alone if I'd known this could happen, but more likely I would have scoffed at the idea and gone ahead anyway.

Why would ospho increase the diameter of the bolt? I know rusting will do it since rust is so much larger by volume than steel.

How did I even get these bolts out in the first place? They were a pain in the ass to remove, but only because of the tight access and the fact that I only had an ordinary short wrench to use on them.

I wire-brushed the bolts and they're at least making some progress into the holes now. I've got the bolts soaking in ospho again and I'll see what another couple of rounds does.

I'm already thinking crazy thoughts. I can't stick smaller bolts through from the other side and spot-weld them to the receiver nuts, because I don't think I could then get the cover back in place over them (maybe I could, but I'd hate to weld all that stuff in and then be unable to fit the cover). So maybe I could tie it back in place? Basically run knotted cords through from the back side, thread them through the cover and then once it's in place knot all the cords to tie it down.

I suck at knot-tying, though.

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Old 05-07-2020, 10:28 PM   #842
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Ha, ha,
While knot tying is another lost art worth your learning...

You're overthinking this a bit...

I'm not a metallurgist to explain the expansion chemically/properly. I'll just say the ospho has left a coating on the bolt...

Are you putting these bolt back in dry? At the very least oil 'em.

A tap & die set from HR is less than $20 for sure...
You won't put great threads in hardened steel but they'll clean up your crusty threads well enough...

When I cut new threads for my brake calipers I did not/ would not use HR taps for that operation but they'll be fine for your doghouse.

And then you'll have another tool in your kit!
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Old 05-07-2020, 10:38 PM   #843
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Be forewarned, cutting threads requires patience and a steady hand. Lots of cutting oil helps too. Chasing down an existing thread is good practice for cutting a new thread. Make sure your have the correct thread size and number of threads per inch. Don't force it ... and back out from time to time. Do not forget the nuts as well.
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Old 05-07-2020, 11:19 PM   #844
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Originally Posted by Frochevy View Post
Oxy/ace welding and hand torch cutting is a dying art in my opinion... There are far few now days that can master it. (Im not very good at it) In my welding class back in 2000-2001 time frame we were the last group to cut/bevel our plates for groove welds by hand. The year after they implemented a track torch. Now days Local community colleges and high schools have removed their oxy/ace outfits all together and quit teaching it.

Ive seen my dad fix many things by brazing or welding with baling wire over the years...

no clothes hangers? baling wire costs money and is too thin
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Old 05-07-2020, 11:21 PM   #845
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I feel like the potential for auto-ignition is higher with oxyacetylene. I've already set fire to my lawn (and myself) once.



only once?
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Old 05-07-2020, 11:25 PM   #846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banman View Post
Reminds me that I meant to warn you about that...
The rusty dusty then coated with ospho probably increased the diameter of your bolt and decreased the diameter of the nut if you painted that with ospho as well...

For the cost of the custom bolts I think you'd be better served by getting a thread chaser set. Cheap(er) sets from Horror Fright or better ones from Hansen and other time honored real tool makers.
If you're gonna continue to work on old iron like I do and can afford the better tools you'll enjoy 'em for the rest of your life. If it's occasional use just get a cheap HF tap & die set. Use oil while dressing the threads either way.
Then lightly coat the threads with never-seize or bearing grease when you assemble and they'll be fine for the life of the bus and then some.

yes, gets my vote (had to type at least 10 letters)
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Old 05-07-2020, 11:28 PM   #847
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Originally Posted by musigenesis View Post
Thanks for not warning me! I'd like to think I would have left it alone if I'd known this could happen, but more likely I would have scoffed at the idea and gone ahead anyway.

Why would ospho increase the diameter of the bolt? I know rusting will do it since rust is so much larger by volume than steel.

How did I even get these bolts out in the first place? They were a pain in the ass to remove, but only because of the tight access and the fact that I only had an ordinary short wrench to use on them.

I wire-brushed the bolts and they're at least making some progress into the holes now. I've got the bolts soaking in ospho again and I'll see what another couple of rounds does.

I'm already thinking crazy thoughts. I can't stick smaller bolts through from the other side and spot-weld them to the receiver nuts, because I don't think I could then get the cover back in place over them (maybe I could, but I'd hate to weld all that stuff in and then be unable to fit the cover). So maybe I could tie it back in place? Basically run knotted cords through from the back side, thread them through the cover and then once it's in place knot all the cords to tie it down.

I suck at knot-tying, though.

just tack weld the cover on... and hang up a "do not disturb" sign...LOL
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Old 05-07-2020, 11:31 PM   #848
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Originally Posted by Native View Post
Be forewarned, cutting threads requires patience and a steady hand. Lots of cutting oil helps too. Chasing down an existing thread is good practice for cutting a new thread. Make sure your have the correct thread size and number of threads per inch. Don't force it ... and back out from time to time. Do not forget the nuts as well.



yep, and don't put any sideways pressure on the tap and break it off in the hole... my favorite trick
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Old 05-08-2020, 07:20 AM   #849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banman View Post
Ha, ha,
While knot tying is another lost art worth your learning...

You're overthinking this a bit...

I'm not a metallurgist to explain the expansion chemically/properly. I'll just say the ospho has left a coating on the bolt...

Are you putting these bolt back in dry? At the very least oil 'em.

A tap & die set from HR is less than $20 for sure...
You won't put great threads in hardened steel but they'll clean up your crusty threads well enough...

When I cut new threads for my brake calipers I did not/ would not use HR taps for that operation but they'll be fine for your doghouse.

And then you'll have another tool in your kit!
What's a good oil to use for putting bolts back in? Also, what's a good cutting oil to use for drilling? I assume WD-40 is good for neither of these tasks (I mention it because that's all I have in the house right now).

I'm thinking I will actually use four knotted cords to reattach my cover temporarily while I line up the proper gear for this. I drove over to my house with the cover loosely positioned over the engine and even then it was pretty loud and irritating. Is it going to get hot enough there for nylon cord to melt if I use it this way?
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Old 05-08-2020, 07:57 AM   #850
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Banman's got it right ... chasing them with a tap and die is about the best you can do short of finding new ones and the corresponding nuts to attach to the cowling.
I would agree as well! Just make sure you use the right tap and die- (metric, standard, fine, coarse thread etc.) Id look on craigslist and see if you can find a set under tools. You seem to find good deals on CL!!! Floor is looking great!!
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Old 05-08-2020, 09:55 AM   #851
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what's a good cutting oil to use for drilling?
1/2 gallon water, 1/4 cup detergent, 1/4 cup Marvel Mystery Oil.
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Old 05-08-2020, 11:01 AM   #852
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What's a good oil to use for putting bolts back in? Also, what's a good cutting oil to use for drilling? I assume WD-40 is good for neither of these tasks (I mention it because that's all I have in the house right now).

I'm thinking I will actually use four knotted cords to reattach my cover temporarily while I line up the proper gear for this. I drove over to my house with the cover loosely positioned over the engine and even then it was pretty loud and irritating. Is it going to get hot enough there for nylon cord to melt if I use it this way?
Heh, heh... The "WD" in WD-40 stands for "water displacing" -- originally designed for chasing the condensation out of distributor caps and the like...
It works great for it's originally intended purpose...
And it's better than nothing for all the ways everybody misuses it every day so if that's all you got, it will only help.

Any other oil you have laying about will keep rust off the threads longer than wd-40 will.

I have an over supply of "air tool oil" so I often use that as a cutting oil.

If you're going to get into doing any work on your engine and mechanicals you might as well get you a tube of "anti-seize" and use it on everything as you go...

Instead of nylon cord how about a ratchet strap over the top?
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Old 05-08-2020, 12:27 PM   #853
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I have had good luck using the actual screw as it's own thread chaser. I clean things up as best I can with a wire brush and rinse with WD-40 or mineral spirits. Next I cut a slice in the screw thread perpendicular to the thread until there is a slot (like on an actual tap). A light touch works best for starting the cut. At this point all you have to do is start the screw in a bit, back it out a bit, add thinner, start again etc. The process makes any screw a self tapper. It is a little tricky getting the hang of cutting the slot but with the screw firmly held in a vice and using a thin hacksaw blade even the smallest screws can be made into self tappers.
Jack

This is a 1/4" 20 screw:
.
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Old 05-08-2020, 03:49 PM   #854
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Originally Posted by ol trunt View Post
I have had good luck using the actual screw as it's own thread chaser. I clean things up as best I can with a wire brush and rinse with WD-40 or mineral spirits. Next I cut a slice in the screw thread perpendicular to the thread until there is a slot (like on an actual tap). A light touch works best for starting the cut. At this point all you have to do is start the screw in a bit, back it out a bit, add thinner, start again etc. The process makes any screw a self tapper. It is a little tricky getting the hang of cutting the slot but with the screw firmly held in a vice and using a thin hacksaw blade even the smallest screws can be made into self tappers.
Jack

This is a 1/4" 20 screw:
.



makes too much sense
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Old 05-08-2020, 03:52 PM   #855
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Originally Posted by ol trunt View Post
I have had good luck using the actual screw as it's own thread chaser. I clean things up as best I can with a wire brush and rinse with WD-40 or mineral spirits. Next I cut a slice in the screw thread perpendicular to the thread until there is a slot (like on an actual tap). A light touch works best for starting the cut. At this point all you have to do is start the screw in a bit, back it out a bit, add thinner, start again etc. The process makes any screw a self tapper. It is a little tricky getting the hang of cutting the slot but with the screw firmly held in a vice and using a thin hacksaw blade even the smallest screws can be made into self tappers.
Jack

This is a 1/4" 20 screw:
.
Good call!! The relief cut allows a place for the chips/debris to go with out gaulding the threads just like a tap!
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Old 05-08-2020, 03:52 PM   #856
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Originally Posted by sproutroot View Post
1/2 gallon water, 1/4 cup detergent, 1/4 cup Marvel Mystery Oil.



I use straight Marvel Mystery Oil., but I have used practically any oil laying around, including ATF
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Old 05-08-2020, 03:57 PM   #857
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I was at least able to get the five screws that go into the floor back in place. Now I can take my time fixing the taps on the other holes. I did put a knotted cord through one of the top holes but it doesn't seem necessary and I didn't put a slipknot on the other end yet.

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Seat belt tethers reattached. I got these tethers from Midwest Bus Parts. I looked up the stamped part number online and it appears these are meant for Mustangs (the car not the plane). Good times throwing out the two rusted and torn original ones.

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Old 05-08-2020, 04:05 PM   #858
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I like Ol'Trent's slotted bol. I hope I remember it when I have to do that again.
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Old 05-09-2020, 11:20 AM   #859
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Drool

I just checked my local metal supplier in Glassboro NJ and found out they're closed to the public but open for pickup orders prepaid online. I've been looking through their bargain list and salivating:

https://metals.shopjfi.com/catalog.aspx?b=Yes

I'm going to make the trip with my bus (about 45 minutes each way) so I can get stuff of pretty much any size. They have some 20' long pieces of 1"x5/8"x1/8" angle steel that I've been trying to find that will be useful for all sorts of things. I'm also going to get a sheet or two of 4'x8' 14 ga.

If anybody in the area (Philly) wants to order some things as part of this I'd be happy to include them if they can come pick it up at my lot in Aston. I won't know the prices of anything until I submit a quote request, but I think it's mostly in the ballpark of $0.50 a pound.
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Old 05-09-2020, 03:01 PM   #860
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I just checked my local metal supplier in Glassboro NJ and found out they're closed to the public but open for pickup orders prepaid online. I've been looking through their bargain list and salivating:

https://metals.shopjfi.com/catalog.aspx?b=Yes

I'm going to make the trip with my bus (about 45 minutes each way) so I can get stuff of pretty much any size. They have some 20' long pieces of 1"x5/8"x1/8" angle steel that I've been trying to find that will be useful for all sorts of things. I'm also going to get a sheet or two of 4'x8' 14 ga.

If anybody in the area (Philly) wants to order some things as part of this I'd be happy to include them if they can come pick it up at my lot in Aston. I won't know the prices of anything until I submit a quote request, but I think it's mostly in the ballpark of $0.50 a pound.



Hey, watch the drool. buster! What do you think caused all that rust on Rusty 87??? That's right, all them kids drooling as they passed by the iron scrap yard!


Yeah, I noticed they had no prices listed. No window shoppers allowed, serious buyers only.
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