Rusty 87 build thread

[Native]

Best laid plans of mice and men!

[musigenesis]

Hmm, I just realized that when I fabricated the chassis clips for my rebuilt floor section, I not only spot-welded the heads of my Grade 5 3/8" bolts to the brackets, I also quenched the pieces in water immediately after welding them (on one of them I even spot-welded the shank as well as the head). They all pretensioned fully without snapping when I installed the clips. No more welding bolts for me, but maybe I won't die because of this.

[banman]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Hmm, I just realized that when I fabricated the chassis clips for my rebuilt floor section, I not only spot-welded the heads of my Grade 5 3/8" bolts to the brackets, I also quenched the pieces in water immediately after welding them (on one of them I even spot-welded the shank as well as the head). They all pretensioned fully without snapping when I installed the clips. No more welding bolts for me, but maybe I won't die because of this.

I'll make a swag that regardless of what you did the bolts are still stronger than a grade 2 at least...

But you can certainly read up on backyard tempering techniques -- blacksmiths can do it -- you can do it.

If you're losing sleep, get a propane torch and heat the area to a dull red and let it cool slowly...

You can also do some po'boy research -- weld up one of your grade 8 bolts to a piece of angle iron you can put in a vice (or bolt to the buses bumper or frame some place) and conduct your own shear test. *
*make sure your elbows, face, and whatever you consider fragile or important will NOT get banged when the bolt breaks -- in general -- always safer to be pulling towards you when something slips or breaks
Then compare that to the torque required to break the same grade 8 bolt that has not been welded on.
You could get real shade tree scientific if you have a BIG torque wrench to abuse...
You could even compare all this to same size grade 5 & 2 bolts if you wanna try and swag what your 'distemper' bolts are reduced to...

Back in the day this jeep was my DD and that bumper was the only metal anvil I could afford... but I could mount a vice on it and I could form metal over it. Couldn't find a pic with the vice mounted so I had to use this glam shot from the more recent past...

[musigenesis]

Bolt hole welding experiment.



Meh.





Little strip of metal is just too thin, just sizzles away. I'm going to try this again with little bits of 14 ga. These 3/8" holes are the perfect size to be really annoying to try to weld over.





I want to say that I beat the hell out of this strip to test the welds, but I actually just thought it was completely over another piece of floor and I was trying to flatten it to that. I forgot it was over a gap. Fortunately the welds did hold. This floor looks awful but it's solid at least.

[musigenesis]

These posts really are a hazard until I get something over them.



Plywood bolted down. This plywood is one of the cheapo 39"x45" sheets of 3/4" I got on CL, salvaged from crates of South American fruit concentrate. The wood is relatively soft, so it compresses down over the weld bumps nicely. When I pull all this up to paint before installing it permanently, I may gouge out the indentations on the underside a bit.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Hmm, I just realized that when I fabricated the chassis clips for my rebuilt floor section, I not only spot-welded the heads of my Grade 5 3/8" bolts to the brackets, I also quenched the pieces in water immediately after welding them (on one of them I even spot-welded the shank as well as the head). They all pretensioned fully without snapping when I installed the clips. No more welding bolts for me, but maybe I won't die because of this.

you can make a new clip and swap it out. At least you did not weld the frame.

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

put some heavy weight oil in a spray bottle and use that to quench the bolt welds it will help retain the temper

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223

put some heavy weight oil in a spray bottle and use that to quench the bolt welds it will help retain the temper

Thanks, but I am never again welding bolt heads like this.

[Native]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Bolt hole welding experiment.

Attachment 44186

Meh.

Attachment 44187

Attachment 44188

Little strip of metal is just too thin, just sizzles away. I'm going to try this again with little bits of 14 ga. These 3/8" holes are the perfect size to be really annoying to try to weld over.

Attachment 44189

Attachment 44190

I want to say that I beat the hell out of this strip to test the welds, but I actually just thought it was completely over another piece of floor and I was trying to flatten it to that. I forgot it was over a gap. Fortunately the welds did hold. This floor looks awful but it's solid at least.

Attachment 44191

It is times like this where ox/acetylene welding shines.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by Native

It is times like this where ox/acetylene welding shines.

You mean for filling holes with globs of metal?

[Native]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

You mean for filling holes with globs of metal?

Yeah, exactly!






Wow, I just looked at the timestamp. This picture was taken over 3 years ago!


Sorry about the limited detail of the welds ... this was the best I could find in my camera ... which is an old cell phone with limited resolution.

[musigenesis]

This was sort of funny. I was using a drill bit to mark where the post needed to go and it happened to fall right on an old bolt hole I had missed because it was completely plugged with dirt. My drill instantly went all the way to the floor and I was like WTF?



Had to patch it and then weld the post to the patch.





Floor is very solid and quiet to walk on. It's amazing the evils that plywood can hide.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by Native

Yeah, exactly!


Attachment 44208



Wow, I just looked at the timestamp. This picture was taken over 3 years ago!


Sorry about the limited detail of the welds ... this was the best I could find in my camera ... which is an old cell phone with limited resolution.

Those look like the plug welds of my dreams!

[sproutroot]

With oxy acetylene you can braze, so you don't even need to melt the base metal. Super versatile tool. You can work with a wider variety of base metals. They can be plasma cutters, or tube benders, or bolt busters. And, IMO, the learning curve is easier than a MIG.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by sproutroot

With oxy acetylene you can braze, so you don't even need to melt the base metal. Super versatile tool. You can work with a wider variety of base metals. They can be plasma cutters, or tube benders, or bolt busters. And, IMO, the learning curve is easier than a MIG.

I feel like the potential for auto-ignition is higher with oxyacetylene. I've already set fire to my lawn (and myself) once.

[sproutroot]

Only fires I've started were with my buzzbox. The spatter catches dry grass under the bus. Never had a problem with the torches. Maybe I'm more conscious of the fire hazard when I'm holding a live flame?

[Frochevy]

Originally Posted by sproutroot

With oxy acetylene you can braze, so you don't even need to melt the base metal. Super versatile tool. You can work with a wider variety of base metals. They can be plasma cutters, or tube benders, or bolt busters. And, IMO, the learning curve is easier than a MIG.

Oxy/ace welding and hand torch cutting is a dying art in my opinion... There are far few now days that can master it. (Im not very good at it) In my welding class back in 2000-2001 time frame we were the last group to cut/bevel our plates for groove welds by hand. The year after they implemented a track torch. Now days Local community colleges and high schools have removed their oxy/ace outfits all together and quit teaching it.

Ive seen my dad fix many things by brazing or welding with baling wire over the years...

[musigenesis]

Fitting a small piece of 3/4" plywood to go under the engine cover and allow me to reattach it.



Problem: not one of the damned screws will go back into the hole it came out of. These were extremely rusty and I treated them with ospho a couple of times. I'll see if wirebrushing the hell out of them fixes it ... if not, anybody know where I can find a set of screws for these? Midwest Bus Parts has all kinds of bus stuff but not these screws, apparently. Conveniently, this engine cover uses four different kinds of screws.



I'm really really really scared of stripping out one of these holes. This is not a location that I want to muck about with retapping holes.

[banman]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Fitting a small piece of 3/4" plywood to go under the engine cover and allow me to reattach it.



Problem: not one of the damned screws will go back into the hole it came out of. These were extremely rusty and I treated them with ospho a couple of times. I'll see if wirebrushing the hell out of them fixes it ... if not, anybody know where I can find a set of screws for these? Midwest Bus Parts has all kinds of bus stuff but not these screws, apparently. Conveniently, this engine cover uses four different kinds of screws.



I'm really really really scared of stripping out one of these holes. This is not a location that I want to muck about with retapping holes.

Reminds me that I meant to warn you about that...
The rusty dusty then coated with ospho probably increased the diameter of your bolt and decreased the diameter of the nut if you painted that with ospho as well...

For the cost of the custom bolts I think you'd be better served by getting a thread chaser set. Cheap(er) sets from Horror Fright or better ones from Hansen and other time honored real tool makers.
If you're gonna continue to work on old iron like I do and can afford the better tools you'll enjoy 'em for the rest of your life. If it's occasional use just get a cheap HF tap & die set. Use oil while dressing the threads either way.
Then lightly coat the threads with never-seize or bearing grease when you assemble and they'll be fine for the life of the bus and then some.

[Native]

Banman's got it right ... chasing them with a tap and die is about the best you can do short of finding new ones and the corresponding nuts to attach to the cowling.