Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-02-2006, 09:37 PM   #21
Bus Nut
 
SeanF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 524
Year: 1993
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: IHC
Engine: Dt360
Rated Cap: 19
This weekend we added a rear deck to the bus for propane storage. Also worked on the kitchen pantry buildout (adding cabinets) and a few other loose ends.
(EDIT: The propane tanks will not be located on the rear deck.)

Rear deck:


Kitchen cabinets:


Today's entire story here, the whole enchilada here.

__________________
Bus conversion/info here
SeanF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2006, 08:31 AM   #22
Bus Nut
 
Les Lampman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington (USA)
Posts: 465
Hey your bus is looking wonderful! It's really nice to follow your progress; thanks for going through the effort to document it online.

I'd like to make a comment as food for thought and not me suggesting that something is wrong. My comments/questions are in the spirit of all of us here getting to learn from each other; I have no intention of passing judgment on someone else's work. I have ideas of my own but I learn most when presented with ideas from others; it challenges my ideas and makes me think about other options.

I would be uncomfortable placing my propane tanks in an exposed location at the rear of the bus. Knowing how little propane is required to make a nasty explosion it isn't something that I'd want an inattentive (tailgating) driver behind me to hit in the event of a mishap. Even if the tanks remain intact there would be a good chance that the valves would be damaged and/or the connection hoses pulled away resulting in a leak.

It would also be the first thing to take damage if the bus is inadvertantly backed into something (hey, it happens; these puppies are long!).

As I said, just some thoughts and I personally would like to hear more about this (since I haven't done the permanent installation of our propane system yet).

All the best...
__________________
Les Lampman
1982 Thomas Saf-T-Liner Pusher "Illusion"

Skoolie.net Gallery
Illusion's SmugMug site
Les Lampman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2006, 10:36 AM   #23
Bus Nut
 
SeanF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 524
Year: 1993
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: IHC
Engine: Dt360
Rated Cap: 19
Hi Les-

I appreciate the feedback, and especially the comment regarding propane tank placement. I consider it sound advice and will take it into consideration.

Sean
__________________
Bus conversion/info here
SeanF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2006, 02:19 PM   #24
Bus Nut
 
SeanF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 524
Year: 1993
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: IHC
Engine: Dt360
Rated Cap: 19
Update: I was just re-reading the NFPA 1192 Standard on Recreational Vehicles (2005 ed) and...not sure how I missed it...but it plainly states that the tanks can't be mounted on the rear bumper.

I'm not looking to get my bus converison certified in any way...but if the NFPA says it's a bad idea, and Les says it's a bad idea, then that's good enough for me.

Thanks again Les for getting my brain in gear on this. I'm looking at other tank mounting locations.

Sean
__________________
Bus conversion/info here
SeanF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2006, 04:19 PM   #25
Bus Nut
 
Eric von Kleist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Grundy, Virginia
Posts: 632
Year: 1985
Coachwork: ThomasBuilt
Chassis: International Harvester S-1700
Engine: 9L IHC V-8 Diesel 180HP
Rated Cap: 60
Funny you should mention this.....

I was thinking this morning that it would be funny to have an empty propane tank mounted on my bumper with the words "DO NOT TAILGATE" painted on it.

Of course, I'd rather not get pulled over for causing a public nuisance on the road!
Eric von Kleist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2006, 04:45 PM   #26
Bus Nut
 
SeanF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 524
Year: 1993
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: IHC
Engine: Dt360
Rated Cap: 19
That or a fake, nasty-looking blackwater valve on the back, with a sign saying something like:

"REMOTE CONTROLLED, HIGH-VOLUME BLACKWATER FLUSH VALVE.
SOLID HUMAN WASTE MAY BE EJECTED AT ANY TIME.
KEEP BACK 100 FEET."
__________________
Bus conversion/info here
SeanF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2006, 09:17 AM   #27
Bus Nut
 
Les Lampman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington (USA)
Posts: 465
Hi Sean,

Thanks for positng the NFPA 1192 info, that's good stuff. I'll have to get a copy of that. It was just paranoia on my part that prompted my post. I work on potentially dangerous systems on cruising boats every day and my mind is programmed to provide the safest systems possible for my customers (AC power, propane and gasoline require the utmost care). Some days it's a blessing and some days a curse!

I have to laugh at my self sometimes...the second part of the post which I started to write orginally was about not blocking the back door so you had an escape route from both ends on the bus. Then I remembered you have a huge rear side door where the wheelchair lift had been (along with those nifty folding stairs)!

I don't weld but I do like the way that Vern1 (BruinHilda) and others have done a compartment under the bus. It doesn't have to extend down too much lower than the lower edge of the skirting. I'm trying to mount mine pretty close to under the stove area so the supply line runs are short and simple.

I saw one installation where they mounted a truck box (like the semi trucks use) on the side (with the skirting cut to fit around it) instead of welding a compartment up. [Ah ha! It was on Michael's Mobile Homestead site and it was Dave & Linda's bus).



__________________
Les Lampman
1982 Thomas Saf-T-Liner Pusher "Illusion"

Skoolie.net Gallery
Illusion's SmugMug site
Les Lampman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2006, 10:32 AM   #28
Bus Nut
 
SeanF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 524
Year: 1993
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: IHC
Engine: Dt360
Rated Cap: 19
Hi Les--

Thanks for the truck box photo/idea. I have a few choices for mounting the cylinders...just have to figure out which is the best. We've already purchased the cylinders (2 x 20# upright) and being uprights they need a space of about 20" of high to be easily accessible.

Behind the rear differential (a la Eric Von K's bus) springs to mind as allowing that height, and also being a somewhat protected area. Not the easiest access, but it's only 2 of us, using propane for heating water and cooking only, so I don't believe it will be a weekly ritual to refill one.

The other options are near the back, behind/along the skirting like in the photo.

Just have to crawl around under the bus with a tape measure, paper & pencil and an open mind.

Thanks again
Sean
__________________
Bus conversion/info here
SeanF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006, 07:29 AM   #29
Bus Nut
 
Eric von Kleist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Grundy, Virginia
Posts: 632
Year: 1985
Coachwork: ThomasBuilt
Chassis: International Harvester S-1700
Engine: 9L IHC V-8 Diesel 180HP
Rated Cap: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanF
Behind the rear differential (a la Eric Von K's bus) springs to mind as allowing that height, and also being a somewhat protected area. Not the easiest access, but it's only 2 of us, using propane for heating water and cooking only, so I don't believe it will be a weekly ritual to refill one.
I refilled mine in November, and haven't been back under there since, but then I'm not using it for heating water. I make a pot of coffee in the morning and do some range-top cooking about every other evening.

Quote:
Just have to crawl around under the bus with a tape measure, paper & pencil and an open mind.
I was going to add "and an open wallet", but you won't need that...until you get out from under the bus.
Eric von Kleist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006, 09:01 AM   #30
Bus Nut
 
Les Lampman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington (USA)
Posts: 465
Here is the way Vern1 did it on BruinGilda...

Note: He made his compartment large enough for 4 tanks; two in use at any time connected with the dual regulator and 2 spares. The compartment on the left was for the batteries (in the angle iron area) and the shorepower stuff.





__________________
Les Lampman
1982 Thomas Saf-T-Liner Pusher "Illusion"

Skoolie.net Gallery
Illusion's SmugMug site
Les Lampman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006, 11:38 AM   #31
Bus Nut
 
SeanF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 524
Year: 1993
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: IHC
Engine: Dt360
Rated Cap: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric von Kleist
I was going to add "and an open wallet", but you won't need that...until you get out from under the bus. Laughing
The wallet being open is sort of an assumed state since the bus came home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Lampman
Here is the way Vern1 did it on BruinGilda...
I like that. The angle-iron-and-expanded-sheet-metal approach is exactly how we did the rear deck; it's fairly easy to do and the resulting structure is strong.

One advantage to having the rear deck available is the possibility of putting batteries there. We're going to live in our rig full-time, and I'll be working from it as well (computer geek), so we need batteries...about 500-lbs worth. My original plan was to use AGM batteries and store them inside since they require no venting and a stable climate will mean better performance & longer life. Now that the rear deck is available I may put them back there, in an insulated, vented box. And since they're out of the living area, I can get the non-AGM type for about 1/2 the price.

I know they still represent a hazard in the case of a rear-end mishap...but to my mind it's not nearly as "dramatic" as the results of said mishap wth propane involved. But is it a good idea? Hmm....
__________________
Bus conversion/info here
SeanF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2006, 11:32 PM   #32
Bus Nut
 
Les Lampman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington (USA)
Posts: 465
As long as your rear carrier will handle the weight I don't see anything wrong with having the batteries back there from a weight standpoint for the bus it self.

I think what you may run into though, depending on your layout, is the length of wiring run from the charger to the batteries and from the batteries to the inverter (if you're using one). I did a recent install on a Xantrex MS2000 inverter (also has a 100 amp charger) where it ended up 14 feet from the batteries. That required 4/0 cable to handle the load at that distance; the wire and fittings came to $500 at dealer cost (ouch!). You want to keep the run from batteries to the inverter (if it's any size at all) as short as possible.

A 35 foot (or thereabouts) run from the alternator at the front of the bus to the batteries on the rear carrier is going to be an expensive proposition as well. You don't want much voltage drop or the batteries will never get charged up properly so that'll be some hefty wire.

You might just go the way Vern1 (he's a member here) did (you can visit his site at http://www.pettypb.com/bus/) and do up the under bus carrier for the propane tanks and the batteries. Position the thing (as much as possible) to keep the propane and wiring runs as short and as easy as you can.
__________________
Les Lampman
1982 Thomas Saf-T-Liner Pusher "Illusion"

Skoolie.net Gallery
Illusion's SmugMug site
Les Lampman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2006, 11:39 PM   #33
Bus Crazy
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 1,839
Send a message via AIM to Steve
I ran about as much cable as you did but I used relatively cheap cable from Lowes and used multiple normal crimped battery connectors on the ends. Probably cost me $50, but I gotta say that bending routing the stuff is hard and you will want to keep from bending it too much or the strands might break.
__________________
View my 1972 Ward: Topic from the Build : The Picture Gallery
View my 1986 Blue Bird: Topic from the Build : The Picture Gallery
View my 1960 GMC: Topic from the Build : The Picture Gallery
Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006, 09:34 AM   #34
Bus Nut
 
Les Lampman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington (USA)
Posts: 465
Hi Steve,

Good points!

I should have said in my post that I was using Ancor marine-rated tinned stranded wire, Ancor wire fittings, and that price included a 400-amp T-class fuse and fuse holder. It's premium stuff and I was doing the installation on a boat so that's all I'll use. The Ancor wire is very supple and allows us to make the weird runs we have to in a boat; it's also tinned so it will live in a saltwater environment. Certainly there are other viable choices for a bus conversion that would be much less expensive. I should have pointed that out.
__________________
Les Lampman
1982 Thomas Saf-T-Liner Pusher "Illusion"

Skoolie.net Gallery
Illusion's SmugMug site
Les Lampman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2006, 11:22 AM   #35
Bus Nut
 
SeanF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 524
Year: 1993
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: IHC
Engine: Dt360
Rated Cap: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Lampman
I think what you may run into though, depending on your layout, is the length of wiring run from the charger to the batteries and from the batteries to the inverter (if you're using one).
True. The current plan is to have the solar panels (4 x Kyocera KC-120s) on the roof near the front since the woodburning stove stack will be near the back. There is room for the charge controller, inverter, system monitor, etc. in the back near the batteries...but the run from the panels to the charge controller will be long (well, longer than I had wanted).

One of the main reasons I want to avoid putting the batteries under the bus is because of their weight (130 lbs each, 4 batteries total) -- to do routine battery maintenance/inspection I'd need to construct some sort of beefy drawer/slide contraption to access them. On the rear deck, in an enclusore of some sort, access should be fairly easy.
__________________
Bus conversion/info here
SeanF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2006, 09:11 AM   #36
Bus Nut
 
Les Lampman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington (USA)
Posts: 465
The wiring run from the panels won't be a problem; not enough amperage there to need really large wire although they'll be many times larger than they'd have to be at shorter distances.

I was thinking more about the run from the engine compartment (the alternator specifically) to the batteries at the rear. If you have a 130-amp alternator for instance, that's quite a long run and the wire has to be very large to avoid a voltage drop. In fact, even if you use 4/0 wire you'll have an unacceptable .541 volt drop. I know that doesn't sound like much but that means the charging regulator always thinks the batteries are a 1/2 volt higher then they are and will never fully charge them. The difference in voltage between a fully charged battery and a half discharged battery is only .7 volts; that .541 volts we lose in the long wire run in our example counts and represents a 4.5% drop in voltage.

[As a side note...the above figures are based on solid wire. If you're using stranded wire which has a higher capacity the numbers would be a little better but not enough to affect the outcome.]

Also, this is based on loads. Long runs supporting a few amps (less than 10 say) are no big deal. It's the large amperage requirments of alternators, inverters, battery charges and such that have the most impact on us. Even a small 175-watt inverter takes #6 wire if it's located 20 feet from the battery.

In your specific case my assessment (with nothing to go on but what's been written here) is that the expense of fitting a slide out tray (and there are many availalbe pre-made) in order to locate the batteries for best electrical performance will actually be the less expensive route in the long run and result in a simpler, more efficient system.

This is all just FYI. I know situations dictate to a large degree how things end up in the real world. My intent is not to make folks lives difficult or to make things more complicated (honest! ). However, I don't think folks often realize just how important it is to plan for short wiring runs to avoid a lot of expense and wasted energy. Getting the batteries in the right location and minimizing long wire runs was a major factor in the ultimate interior layout in my bus.

Food for thought at any rate!
__________________
Les Lampman
1982 Thomas Saf-T-Liner Pusher "Illusion"

Skoolie.net Gallery
Illusion's SmugMug site
Les Lampman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2006, 10:03 AM   #37
Bus Nut
 
SeanF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 524
Year: 1993
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: IHC
Engine: Dt360
Rated Cap: 19
Oooh I see.

To be honest...I've never considered using the bus alternator as a charging source for the batteries. We don't plan on moving often...maybe a few times per year. In any case, we've sized the solar panel array to be the sole charging source for the battery bank.
If we add another power source it will likely be a wind turbine and/or more panels.

I'm grateful for the insights. It is valuable stuff from someone with real-world experience. Food for thought indeed!

Sean
__________________
Bus conversion/info here
SeanF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2006, 03:01 AM   #38
Bus Nut
 
Roasting8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 382
Year: 1981
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Crown
Engine: 671 DD
Send a message via MSN to Roasting8 Send a message via Yahoo to Roasting8
Hi Sean,

If you ever plan ln locating your batteries at front, you might find some heavy duty slides at the RV salvage yard in Phoenix. I'd check for you but, I moved to Houston.

Their url is: http://www.azrvinc.com/

I wish I was over there, I could use some windows, tanks, and awning.
Roasting8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2006, 08:14 AM   #39
Bus Nut
 
Les Lampman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington (USA)
Posts: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanF
Oooh I see.

To be honest...I've never considered using the bus alternator as a charging source for the batteries. We don't plan on moving often...maybe a few times per year. In any case, we've sized the solar panel array to be the sole charging source for the battery bank.
If we add another power source it will likely be a wind turbine and/or more panels.

I'm grateful for the insights. It is valuable stuff from someone with real-world experience. Food for thought indeed!

Sean
Ah...well there you go. A perfect example of why one size doesn't fit all!
__________________
Les Lampman
1982 Thomas Saf-T-Liner Pusher "Illusion"

Skoolie.net Gallery
Illusion's SmugMug site
Les Lampman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2006, 10:34 PM   #40
Bus Nut
 
SeanF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 524
Year: 1993
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: IHC
Engine: Dt360
Rated Cap: 19
This wekeend we fabricated & installed shielding for our wood-burning stove:


...and installed 3 Hehr model 5900 windows:


More details here.

I'm also working on a stealth composting toilet system. Well, the progress is stealth, not the toilet itself. Inspired in part by Eric Von K's setup, and a Biolet system. Multi-chamber, materials under $100, with a forced air vent system. I fiddle with it on week nights, and take pics as I go. When I get to a good point where I feel I'm onto the final design, I'll post pics to my site and send up a flare.

Cheers
Sean
__________________
Bus conversion/info here
SeanF is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Motorcycle Homestead - Around the World Redbear On the Road | Travel, Trips, Camp Sites, Tailgates 17 10-01-2011 08:08 PM
Schoolbus Graveyards in Virginia kentja Everything Else | General Skoolie Discussions 0 09-04-2010 04:59 PM
1986 GMC Schoolbus britishroamer Classifieds | Buy, Sell, Swap 7 12-04-2007 01:29 AM
The Mobile Homestead soused moose Everything Else | General Skoolie Discussions 0 02-24-2007 02:59 PM
The Mobile Homestead soused moose Everything Else | General Skoolie Discussions 5 04-04-2006 07:57 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.