Sinclair

[Seeria]

Fran (Sinclair) Skoolie
Family picked the name Sinclair from dino family the TV series Dinosaurs and the fact the bugger is a fossil eater, the gas stations Sinclair, etc. I've found I refer to it as a she constantly so I've renamed her to Fran Sinclair.


*** This post is updated, deleted, edited, as progress is made ****


After such a long $&%# time looking and having seen over a dozen buses in the last month, I finally found the right type, size and hopefully--good condition. Bought for less than $3k plus. I'm having it delivered to me for various reasons and it should be here April 4th. Family is excited. Me, I'm nervous I'll reserve my excitement for when it is here in one, working piece. A few weeks to figure out where to start and try to get my hands on the materials I still needed to get started. Must be ready before mid-June. Bus is International, bluebird, 30' bumper to bumper. More details once it is here.

[Seeria]

lol OMG did your fingers fall off? I'll make you double the cheesecake now

On refrigeration, seems like a converted (to 'fridge) chest freezer is the easiest, cheapest (by swapping thermostats)

Oooh Okay what are they, where, and how do I do that? We did a month (in the summer) of tests here to find out what was more effecient, could handle doors being opened often, etc between our frig and our chest freezer. Freezer won. Still have to test that out with it being a cold box not a freezer. I can't imagine going back to using an upright fridge, ever.

Love the rain collection idea and have a few books on it but seeing how the only non-arid place we'll be is on the Oregon coast for a few weeks...not sure how that would work out. Four of us to water, sometimes more we a friend hitches a vacation with us. Plan on doing this on the land we get eventually.

Your shower idea is what we did in the pop-up camper we took south for three months a few years ago. Used a big ole tote tub (was $3 back then, they're 6 now). It worked great. I have to confirm with state patrol here first though, 'cause I heard here I have to have a permanent setup for shower/toilet to qualify for title change. Sure be easier the tote tub way.

Think a floor can be ripped up, cleaned up, insulated and finished in a week? Only 4weeks to get it in shape enough, titled, etc, to hit the road or I end up signing a year lease again. eewww Just two adults here btw.

[Seeria]

Can anyone give me the pros and cons to this idea, please?

On the siding, rather than removing the metal and replacing the inside insulation, how about leaving it be and putting insulation board over the length of the bus wall (not windows) then covering with a walling material (not even sure what that is called).

I understand that the inside might be rusty, the insulation inadequate. My problem is time. Once the bus is here I have maybe 4 weeks to get her in good enough shape to hit the road so time (and to some extent money) is my biggest obstacle.

[Seeria]

About flooring... I noticed some people are laying down wood boards then setting the insulation boards inside that. Why?

Looking at radiant barrier material, I found this bit of information:
ARMA FOIL™ is a heavy duty material which is much stronger than the premuim or standard grade radiant barriers. You can't tear this with your hands! ARMA FOIL™ comes in various widths, including 16", 18", 24", 26", and 48". This listing is for 48" wide rolls.

* Size: 48 inch wide x 250 feet long
* Double Sided Radiant Barrier
* Contains 99.5% pure Aluminum
* Class A Fire Rating: 10 (ASTM E84)
* Smoke Development: 10 (ASTM E84)
* Clean and Non-Toxic
* Resists Mildew
* Perforated
* Industrial Grade (high strength poly-woven liner)
* Emittance value of .03 (Blocks 97% of Radiant Heat)
* Water Vapor Permeability: 70 g/m²/24hr
* Tensile Strength: 80.4 lb/in
* (This is the Tensile strength of the material itself, not just the scrim)
* Mullen Burst Strength: 160 psi

This comes in perforated and non-perforated. Frankly, I'm not sure which would be best in a bus. I only know of one person that used this to line the bus, waiting on a reply to see what type they used and how it is working out.

[Diesel Dan]

Originally Posted by Seeria

About flooring... I noticed some people are laying down wood boards then setting the insulation boards inside that. Why?

I think that is so the plywood flooring will be supported by the wood strips, rather than compressing the insulation. I didn't do it this way, but my floor insulation is only 1/4", and isn't at the top of my priority list. I'm just doing fairweather camping, and not fulltiming, so I'm not as concerned with insulation. Anyway, it seems to me that the wood strips create gaps in the insulation, since wood doesn't insulate nearly as well as polystyrene. I'm sure Smitty will have a more definitive answer.

[Seeria]

Finally got an answer from the State Patrol here in Wisconsin. Previous attempts to get info have been met with a "we'll mail you the info when we find it" -- Yeah well, three months of trying and still no mail. I started calling each office in the state until someone had info

Wisconsin bus to RV title requires: *edited to add official info from SP*
Paint outside anything but yellow.
Remove the stop arm.
Remove crossing gate.
Remove anything that identifies the vehicle as a school bus.
Remove the red overhead stop/flashing lights. The last gent I talked to said you can't remove the lightbulb or cut wires, or even paint over it. He says the red casing has to be Removed.

I have a copy of the copy the state patrol sent me if anyone wants to see it.

Verbally, I was told to remove seats (can leave enough to hold less than 6 people said one DMV lady).
Another mentioned it has to be under 26k weight.

Given that info, I guess I'll need to pull those then put some sheet metal strips over it, seal it against rain. So, what screws do I use to do that?

[jkindt]

Originally Posted by Seeria

Given that info, I guess I'll need to pull those then put some sheet metal strips over it, seal it against rain. So, what screws do I use to do that?

I am actually cutting metal discs the same size as the holes and welding them in, but the other option would be to cut some sheet metal to fit over the holes, put some sealant around the holes to seal the sheet metal, and rivet them in place. Rivets will hold better and not vibrate loose while travelling down the road.

[jkindt]

Originally Posted by Smitty

If you can get to the back-side, remove the lights, cut a piece of sheet metal larger than the light openings (place the metal on the inside, back side of the cap), and use flathead poprivets, then mud (bondo) over it all and smooth it out.

Smitty

How do you use pop rivets and still be able to smooth out the surface? I have a hole that needs to be covered from the stop sign that is about an inch and a half that I can get to, but has too many wires near it to be able to weld it in. I thought of recessing it in with a hammer and attaching a round piece of sheet metal with rivets.

[Seeria]

Thanks! More things to buy at Lowes today. weeee I love tool shopping!

[Mulelover]

I didn't see any answers for the question of leaving the interior metal sides alone and just insulating and framing over it. This is what I am thinking of doing. Anyone have any minus or plus for why not.

[Mulelover]

I just read up about radiant barriers and it doesn't say anything about blocking the cold. I would like to use it on the floor of the bus because it would allow for a couple of inches more headroom. Did you find anything about this when you were looking at what ever site you used?

Thanks,

Jackie

[Mulelover]

Yes funny man I do have the right post. The question was posed with the long text
When you coming to Utah and work on a bus for me????

[Mulelover]

Hey Smitty how are you getting more wall space if you will be filling it with insulation?

Aww shucks, you don't have to say how I'm the brightest crayon in the box

[Mulelover]

Originally Posted by Seeria

Can anyone give me the pros and cons to this idea, please?

On the siding, rather than removing the metal and replacing the inside insulation, how about leaving it be and putting insulation board over the length of the bus wall (not windows) then covering with a walling material (not even sure what that is called).

I understand that the inside might be rusty, the insulation inadequate. My problem is time. Once the bus is here I have maybe 4 weeks to get her in good enough shape to hit the road so time (and to some extent money) is my biggest obstacle.

Smitty you must be going senile in your old age, so thought I would bring the post up for you

[Sojakai]

Minus... The factory installed insulation isnt very good. You could remove the panels and put in much better insulation into the factory wall cavity, then do what you intend.

[Seeria]

Okay on Radiant Barriers
Deal with them is not to give R value, they are not insulation, they are a barrier. To work, they require air space, so sandwiching them btwn things is a waste of money.

Gent from radiantbarrier.com says this about my above questions:
In your current configuration, you would apply our Super-R Plus Perforated foil as described below. Hopefully, the foil will have a bit of air space on one side or the other. The performance will be lessened if it is sandwiched tightly against both surfaces.
· Here is the extreme answer. Remove ALL the useless fiberglass. Attach our Tempshield Double Bubble Double Foil Insulation to the furring strips leaving a space between the insulation and the metal skin. This will provide a 97% heat barrier and eliminate any condensation.


Guy from an ebay store selling barriers says:
That is a good question, and probably one that I can not answer. In southern climates we recommend using perforated products in that application as it will breathe and not trap moisture on either side of the foil. In northern location, they will typically use the Non-perforated so as to act as a vapor barrier in the winter time.
If you are unsure as to which product to use, I generally recommend using the perforated as there is less risk of trapping or holding moisture on either side of the foil.

Some detailed info on how it works installed can be found here: http://www.doityourself.com/stry/installradiant/

From what I can see, it would be handy to put on the ceiling if you're not planning on covering it up. There are also reflective barrier paints on most radiant barrier company sites.

Over all, the process of putting in the bus is too time consuming for my needs, but for those bus conversions I've seen with them, the slipping them btwn walls (suspended for air space both sides) seems to work great! A lot of work, rather expensive.

[Seeria]

As for the question about insulating and paneling over the existing wall materials...

I asked that and later updated the post by removing that one.

Still a good question though. Some of us simply do not have the funds or time or talent or tools to do a huge conversion, removing walls, making new ones, etc. For me, tossing up extra air space and paneling is a solution to keeping condensation off my blankets when the touch the walls. *shrug* We'll see.

[Seeria]

Smitty... yup, you caught me. I get a prize now right?

Researching the roof situation--heat! eek I came across this information on white coating roofs

http://eetd.lbl.gov/coolroof/coating.ht ... 20coatings

Basically, the higher the albedo the less energy absorbed so the cooler the inside becomes.
Problem I see with a lot of the listed coatings is they are that tar, rubbery type coating. Not what I want on the bus, makes for horrible start gazing.

What did everyone else here use?


The Henry's mentioned on this site here and there, I found this info. Doesn't list the albedo rating though.
White Roof Coating Title 24
280DC White Roof Coating
* 10 Year Warranty
* Meets California Commission Title 24
* ASTM D-6083-05
* Miami-Dade County, NOA 04-1027.01
* UL Classified A and B and Fire Rated
* Cool Roof Rating Council (CRRC)
* LEED requirements
* Coverage: On smooth surfaces: approx. 2 - 3 gallons per 100 sq. ft. depending on porosity and roughness of surface

Henry also makes:
SolarFlex 287 SF
* Specially formulated to resist mildew in humid climates
* Rich, top-quality, non-fibered elastomeric
* Reflects up to 80%
* Brush, roller or spray application
* Excellent UV resistance
* Coverage: 2.0 gallons/square in 2 coats
Sizes available:
5 gallon
55 gallon

[lornaschinske]

Reflectix: works great as a heat barrier. We installed in our 1970's era pop-up roof. Dropped temps down so much that it went from burning (red mark) skin from touching the interior steel roof bows to the whole roof was completely cool to the touch. The barrier was laid between the ABS roof cover and the crappy white styrofoam "insulation". You must allow for an air space for it to work at it's best. That said, we have used it extensively in our current RV. There isn't any airspace. It does work as a radiant barrier still. I also use it as window covers. You will realize benefits from using it in addition to the foamboard. Just not to the extent that you would if you allowed the airspace.

Roof coatings: I push Snow Roof Products (I bought mine thru Ace Hardware). http://www.snowroof.com/catalog.asp
In 2006, on my Class C (1977 with aluminum roof) I patched all seams with Contouring Polyester Seam Tape for Rough Surfaces (embedded in the ElastoSeal Primer). Whole roof was then coated with ElastoSeal Primer. That was then top coated with 2 coats of Snow Roof.

Before we left NM, I started patching the roof on the Blue Bird with the Seam tape (leaky seam and an antenna hole) and covered the tape with ElastoSeal Primer. When we get back to NM, I will finish scraping the silicone caulking off the rest of the seams, taping them then I will prime the whole roof with the primer and roll on a couple of coats of Snow Roof. the Ace hardware store in Socorro carries the Snow products. It is amazing how much just one coat of the Snow roof will drop the temps. Even after applying just the primer, we could feel a difference in the interior temps (and this was in S GA).

I can't really say anything about the products mentioned above but I do have experience with the Snow Roof. I wore long sleeved shirt and long pants. I was barefoot (no sense getting the stuff on my good shoes since it doesn't come off... tossed clothes afterward). The Snow Roof reflects so well that I was sunburned on my legs up to my knees. And it looked good (no washing) 2 years later. I haven't did anything to it (not even cleaned the roof) and it still looks pretty good. And it's much quieter when it rains. The roof is sort of "rubbery".

[Mulelover]

Lorna,

Do you think you could paint the whole bus with the snow roof. I was thinking about it because my bus will be white, and figured it would do the same for the sides of the bus, as it does for the roof.

Does it go on like paint.

Jackie