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Old 02-23-2013, 08:08 PM   #1
Skoolie
 
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Year: 2000
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Skoolie Conversions - a great group!

Guys & Ladies, I've been reading Skoolie Conversion for over a year now. This is a great group of people that really love their buses. During the last 3 years the coach boards really slowed down (economy and fuel prices I suspect), but this group kept right on converting and using their buses. I have been amazed at some of the conversions and determination on this board. My hat is off to you! While my current conversion project is a transit, the one before this one was a varient of a skoolie. Here are a few photos taken during various stages of the conversion.






This was a 1992 high roof Thomas Saf-T-Liner, Cummins 5.9 with Allison 3060. I lowered the skirts on it, replaced the front cap (had a big dent where someone had hit an overhang), and did all the other things necessary for a conversion. This was after it was painted, with no strips or anything.



Inside roof work below. It's a good thing I didn't know how much work all this was at the beginning!



Here's some shots of making one of the rear bed frames.









This is the hole in the roof for the rear A/C.




One of the many jobs that must be done on any bus I've ever owned is cleanup the battery box. It's always a job. No one ever takes care of them like they should. This photo shows mine after it was cleaned and had POR-15 applied. Can't say enough good stuff about POR-15. Nothing seems to affect it, not even battery acid. It you get it on you, the only thing that will take it off is a grinder. Typically, this is one of the first jobs I do on a new bus.





Here's a pic before painting. This particular bus had a rear door as well. I replaced the front bi-fold door with Thomas's factory one piece door. That was a job, even though it was made to fit the opening.




Since there was a rear door, I made one bed across the back and another opposite the door.



I sold this bus a few years back. It was a fun project. I'm sorry, but I can't find photos of the interior after it was much further along.

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Old 02-23-2013, 08:54 PM   #2
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Re: Skoolie Conversions ---- a great group!

Looks like you did a really nice job on that bus - thanks for sharing!
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:34 PM   #3
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Re: Skoolie Conversions ---- a great group!

Here's a photo of my latest project (bus).



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Old 02-24-2013, 10:16 AM   #4
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Re: Skoolie Conversions ---- a great group!

Can't wait to see what you do with this one! --- Welcome to Skoolie Central...You are obviously experienced & skilled at bus building so this thread will no doubt be a popular one to follow. Please...keep the pix coming!
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:42 PM   #5
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Re: Skoolie Conversions ---- a great group!

Welcome. Impressive work.

I'm curious what did you learn from your previous conversion that you will or will not be doing on this one?
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:43 PM   #6
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Re: Skoolie Conversions ---- a great group!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mchunt
Welcome. Impressive work.

I'm curious what did you learn from your previous conversion that you will or will not be doing on this one?

Wow, that's a big question. The short answer is a lot! In regards to building, I overbuilt some things, under built others. Some things that made sense at the time didn't make sense for the way I ended up using my bus. This is actually my third bus, so I know what worked well for me and what didn't. Some of the things that worked for me will not work for others. If you use your bus as your main living quarters, I think you might build in a different way than if it is a weekend get-a-way vehicle. Also, if you have family travelling with you, you will need to accommodate additional sleeping arrangements. This will impact your floor plan. Here are some of the things I'm doing differently than when I converted my first bus.

1. I don't cook in the bus much. Too hot in the summer time. I usually cook on the grill outside unless it's raining. Install a convection microwave. It's good for microwaving and baking. No stove or cook top. Just counter space with a sink. Use an electric skillet if you need to fry anything. I have a small, portable, induction cook top for boiling water for spaghetti. It's best if you run separate electrical outlets for these and not put them on the same one in case you need to use both at the same time. For weekend/3 day trips, I prefer to take pre-made plates I prepare at home or vegetable plates I buy at the local diner. I cook outside on the grill only in the late evening.

2. No overhead cabinets. I think I just heard some ladies scream! Other than too many dishes, mine mostly carried things I never used, with half of them remaining empty most of the time. If you can do without them, it really opens up the interior space. Use pull-out platforms in your bottom cabinets for dishes and pots. Again, I never used many of the ones I carried, so I was hauling way too many.

3. Use a home style fridge. The RV fridges work fair (most of the time), but you've got the issue of leveling (they need to be relatively level or their life is shortened). They are expensive, and they are small compared to what we are familiar with at home. As mentioned above, I like to take pre-prepared meals with me. These take up a good bit of room. Also, the freezers are small on RV fridges.

4. No LP. The items in RVs & buses that typically run on LP are fridges, cook tops, and furnaces. I use a 10 CF home style fridge, electric cook top, electric convection oven, and a ceramic heater for heating. I don't use the bus much in the winter. A ceramic heater keeps it nice and warm for the cool October mornings. No need for LP.

5. Make the bathroom as small as possible. If you think about how little time is spent in this space, it doesn't make much sense to have a large bathroom. You're just not there that long every day (probably ). Use the saved space for your main living quarters. You'll get more use from it.

6. Use quality RV furniture when possible. Like Flexsteel ---- yes, I know, it's not cheap, and I'm not rich either. But, it is scaled to fit into RV spaces and still be comfortable. By being slightly smaller than home style furniture, it doesn't over power your interior space by being out of scale. If you do a bit of looking, you can usually find very good used pieces on Craigslist.

7. Use 12 volt lighting (or 24 volt in my case). You can find just about anything you want now in low voltage. It works directly off the battery bank, without inverters, and is simple to install. I've always used reflected lighting. I like to bounce it off the ceiling by placing fluorescents behind a valance (down the side of the ceiling) or in a shaded fixture. I don't like to see the source of a light shining into my eyes. Reflected light (from the ceiling) is much more pleasant. You can also buy compact fluorescents now that are 12V, and use the same light fixtures as regular household bulbs. You just need to wire them on 12V and not 120V --- else you're in for a big surprise on power up!

8. I like a booth in the kitchen. This is just a personal preference of mine. Tables take us much less space than booths though, so if you’re tight on space, consider using a table.

9. I wanted to build my current bus without 2X4 framing. This is the first time I've done this, and so far, it has worked out well. This advice was given to me by an older gentleman that is a long time converter. Please don't think that using 2x4's for framing is the wrong way. I don't believe that at all. Not using 2x4 framing is just a different way of doing it. The reason for not using them is straight forward ------ if you add up the width of all the 2x4's used in the bus, you will lose between 1 to 2 feet in bus length by the time you are through.

It's been an interesting experience figuring out how to brace all those walls without using 2x4’s. Aside from the "engineering" time, it has added to the cost of the interior conversion, probably by $1,000 dollars. Mostly, the cost comes from requiring cabinet grade plywood instead of a lesser grade. Since there is no framing to screw to, you must use very straight ¾ inch plywood. As a result, I've rarely been able to find any plywood I can use at Lowes or HD. I did buy 5 sheets at Lowe's last month when they got in a new supply that was straight. After it sits there a while, it takes on a curve due to the way they shelf it. If you stand a sheet of ply up on its edge and sight down it, it must be straight with no curve. You can't really get the curve out if there is no framing to screw it to. As a consequence, I’ve had to buy my plywood at the place most of the local cabinet makes use. They don’t have Home Depot pricing.

10. Get all the bus mechanicals fixed before you start converting. I've done it both ways, and this way was better for me. My first bus needed several things repaired, nothing major, but things that should be done before using it much. I didn't really have the money to get them all fixed at the time, so I worked on the inside first. Before you know it, you'll find a place you want to take the bus for a weekend outing, but you can't go due to maintenance issues. On my current bus, I started getting maintenance things out of the way first. Couldn't do them all at once, but did them as I could afford it. The only things inside I did was to remove all the seats, rubber on the floor, and planned, planned, planned. Also, I started to buy up a few things I'd need once the interior work started. This gives you time to find good deals. I had the bus almost a year before I started the interior.

11. Use the bus whenever you can while converting. I can't stress this enough. If you work on it every weekend, but never use it, you can lose the luster for completing it. It's important to have some balance. It will also give you an idea of what works and what doesn't and give you memorable moments to laugh about in the future. This is another reason to get all your mechanicals fixed first.

12. Have buy-in from the family. Things go much better if your family is involved. Sharing the experiences brings you closer and teaches many lessons to the younger generation.

13. No generator. This won't work for everyone, maybe not even most, but it should work fine for me. Over several years of RV'ing/busing, I've discovered that I never go anywhere (as a destination) that doesn't have electrical hookups. First off, my bus is built primarily as my "dog show" vehicle. By far and away, most of my use is going to dog shows in the local region. It's hot down here in the summer, so A/C is required 24/7, especially with my Chow Chows. They have polar bear coats on them and need A/C to stay cool. With our heat and humidity, you just have to have A/C.

If you haven't done the math yet, running a genset 24/7 takes a about 10 - 12 gallons of fuel every 24 hrs. That's around $50. This greatly increases your weekend expense, not to mention those 150 hour maintenance intervals on the genset. Typically I'll be gone 3 days to a show. It's much cheaper to use the destination site's electric than to bring your own. Add to this the initial cost (and maintenance) of a genset and you're into a lot of dollars. Onan diesel generators are $5,000 to $7,000 for a new/used one. Plus you have to have some place to put it. Transit buses aren't exactly overrun with under floor storage. To solve all these problems, and to reduce expense, I decided I can live entirely without a generator. To do so, you need a little up-front planning though. Here’s what I did:

a) I bought a bus with great air conditioning already built in. Transits have huge air conditioners on them. They must have them to accommodate the constant open/closing of doors as well as a bus full of passengers. So, I kept my A/C in the conversion. The down side of this is the duct work takes up conversion space, and A/C maintenance can be expensive if stuff goes wrong.

b) I have roof top A/C units for when I'm parked. Plug in to the destination electrical source and you're set for the weekend.

c) My Gillig has a 24V 270 amp generator on it. This is about 7.5 Kw of electrical power when you consider that the output voltage is actually 28 volts, not 24. I have a 3Kw sine wave inverter and a suitable battery bank for it. If need be, I can run an A/C unit while the engine is running for emergency cooling. This is my backup if I’m on the road and the A/C goes out. So, I'm pretty much covered for A/C whether going down the road or at a destination. The one situation I cannot handle is boon docking. That's only practical for me in the early spring or late fall due to the heat.

So, this was the short answer. You’re probably sorry you asked. I hope I didn’t bore everyone to death. There are many different ways to build a conversion. Everyone’s needs and wants aren’t the same. That’s why we all build it “our way”!
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:46 AM   #7
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Re: Skoolie Conversions ---- a great group!

Luckychow,
Your Thomas was a beautiful bus! We are looking to pick up a Thomas as well, I can only hope it looks close to a nice as your old one. I really like how you fixed the dent in the front - it really changes the look of out in a great way. And your explanations are very much appreciated - knowing what you have built and what you use it for even helps those of use that will be using our conversions for the complete opposite! ... so when do we get to see your dogs??

Thank you for posting!
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:18 AM   #8
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Re: Skoolie Conversions ---- a great group!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyChow
I sold this bus a few years back. It was a fun project. I'm sorry, but I can't find photos of the interior after it was much further along.
argh! When I saw the first image, it was like seeing my idea bus being projected onto the internet. I had instant thoughts of buying it! You did a great job!
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:36 AM   #9
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Re: Skoolie Conversions ---- a great group!

I guess it was a big question . Thanks for taking the time, good insights. And I couldn't agree more with #12, having buy in makes a world of difference.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:10 AM   #10
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Re: Skoolie Conversions ---- a great group!

Very nice busses. Thanks for taking the time to write all that.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:15 PM   #11
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Re: Skoolie Conversions ---- a great group!

Thanks guys. Sorry for the long post. I think everybody likes photos more than words, so here's a few of what my bus looked like when I went to pick it up. These aren't very good, but it's what I took at the time. I was trying to get out of there because I had a long drive back home from Orlando and it was starting to rain.






Yes, full wrap and all. At the time I was dreading taking that wrap off. Sometimes, if they've been on for too long, they are hard to remove. When you start pulling them, they tear because the sun has weakened the material. Fortunately, this one came off pretty easy. Took about an hour.

Here's one of my favorite photos ---- We drive a great bargin! I've had a lot of fun with that one, as friends of mine thought I was crazy for selling my last motorhome and converting this bus. When asked why on earth I'd do such a thing, I told them I wanted to drive a great bargin! You guys know what I mean!







The hole in the floor was where the fare box was mounted. I had to cover over it later so the floor would be flat. Believe it or not, the fare boxes don't mount/screw into the wood on the floor. At the bottom of that hole, is 1/4" steel plate that is welded to the frame of the bus.



There looks like a lot of room in there with everything out. You can see on the left hand side where the rear door has already been removed and insulation put in the wall. I removed the rear steps and closed in the space. I am putting a drop shower in the hole.







Here's where the rear door was originally. Except for the odd spacing of the window, it looks like there was never one there. The reflection you see is from the post of the shed.



By this point the rear door was closed in, the paint work done, and all the mechanicals were completed. One of the things that is sometimes overlooked, but really makes your bus "pop" is to replace all the external lights/lens,covers. Mine were corroding, had discolored lens, and just didn't look good up close, so I bought new ones to replace them. I still haven't done this to the rear tail lights yet. They are LED and not particularily cheap like the others. I'll probably do them when the weather warms up this spring.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:42 PM   #12
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Re: Skoolie Conversions ---- a great group!

Quote:
Originally Posted by inkblots84
Luckychow,
Your Thomas was a beautiful bus! We are looking to pick up a Thomas as well, I can only hope it looks close to a nice as your old one. I really like how you fixed the dent in the front - it really changes the look of out in a great way. And your explanations are very much appreciated - knowing what you have built and what you use it for even helps those of use that will be using our conversions for the complete opposite! ... so when do we get to see your dogs??

Thank you for posting!
Inkblots84, thanks for the kind words. The large dent in the cap was pretty substantial. I actually fixed it by replacing the cap. The cap wasn't a lot of money, so I ordered one from Thomas and it worked out better. Additionally, I was able to order it without a front window, which was a nice plus.

I see you're looking for a Thomas. I think that's an excellent choice. I really like the Thomas line. Now that they're owned by Freightliner, they really have good support. I toured the factory 3 years ago and watched them make one. One really nice thing about the Thomas buses is that they have two roof heights to choose from. When you see pictures of a bus you're interested in, look at a side profile picture. The high profile roof will slope upwards right behind the front cap. The low profile roof will slpe down. Both models use the same cap, so one drops and the other rises. I believe the height difference between the two roofs is about 6 inches. Since I'm 6 feet tall, I only considered the high profile roof buses for myself. From past experience, I'd say that about 60% of the Thomas's I see are low roofs and 40% high roofs, so there's a good number of them out there.

You asked about the dogs. I don't have anything I'm showing right now. My dogs live with me and are considered family members, so I only keep a couple at a time. I don't breed and don't have a kennel. They still go with me to the shows in the bus. They love it and I love taking them. I don't know if it's allowed to post this kind of pic or not. If not, I apologize to the admin. I'll just throw a couple in here one time. Here's Savannah as a puppy and then later. She's 9 now and doesn't get around so well. She was born in a motorhome while at a dog show. She's my travelling buddy! Loves to ride.



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Old 02-27-2013, 11:42 PM   #13
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Re: Skoolie Conversions ---- a great group!

We don't really have any hard-core "rule nazis" on this forum - post whatever you want on your thread! There is however a "pet thread" in the "Everything Else" section that you might enjoy...
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:19 AM   #14
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Re: Skoolie Conversions ---- a great group!

When I was a kid I got chased up a tree by the neighborhood chow. I'll never forget him down there on the ground looking like a little bear.

On the first bus were the cabinets made out of plywood painted grey? It gives a nice finished look.

I think I could park my bus inside yours.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:36 AM   #15
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Re: Skoolie Conversions ---- a great group!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyChow

I see you're looking for a Thomas. I think that's an excellent choice. I really like the Thomas line. Now that they're owned by Freightliner, they really have good support. I toured the factory 3 years ago and watched them make one. One really nice thing about the Thomas buses is that they have two roof heights to choose from. When you see pictures of a bus you're interested in, look at a side profile picture. The high profile roof will slope upwards right behind the front cap. The low profile roof will slpe down. Both models use the same cap, so one drops and the other rises. I believe the height difference between the two roofs is about 6 inches. Since I'm 6 feet tall, I only considered the high profile roof buses for myself. From past experience, I'd say that about 60% of the Thomas's I see are low roofs and 40% high roofs, so there's a good number of them out there.
Thank you LuckyChow.. I believe you may have just saved me from climbing into many buses to measure! Tall body is definitely the way to go, they just feel much more spacious. I've heard good and bad about Thomas, but they are definitely the most common around here, and we really liked their buses when we went to look. We looked at one that has been sitting for more than a year but it has a bad water pump and no other known defects. Thankfully we have a little time to keep looking! I also didn't know they are owned by freightliner, your info is much appreciated.
And Savannah is a beautiful dog, she looks like a teddy bear!
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:48 AM   #16
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Re: Skoolie Conversions ---- a great group!

Quote:
Originally Posted by roach711
On the first bus were the cabinets made out of plywood painted grey? It gives a nice finished look.
I can't tell for sure, but it looks like laminated wall board (not sure what they actually call it, but it has a plastic laminate, like Formica, adhered to a backer, like plywood/OSB/MDF or something similar). I could be wrong though. Bottom line, you're right... it does have a nice clean look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roach711
I think I could park my bus inside yours.
I agree, looks like a lot of room in there.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:01 PM   #17
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Re: Skoolie Conversions ---- a great group!

Roach711, sorry that Chow tree'd you! LOL Like a lot of other breeds temperment is largely dependent upon their parents and how they were raised. Savannah might do the same thing, but only if you had a chicken leg in your pocket. She's got the best temperment of any Chow I've ever had. When she was younger, I used her at Girl Scout meetings to teach them you can't judge a book by its cover and how to meet a strange dog. The AKC has videos on dvd for this topic to go along with instruction with a real dog. She's great for "meet & greet" functions, which is part of our kennel clubs community functions.

Regarding the cabinet work, it is laminate over plywood. There are several brand names for it like Formica, Arborite, etc. I was thinking about doing a thread in the "Tutorial and How To" section of the board about it. I used a lot of laminate in my last two buses, so I've done a good bit of laminating. It's not hard, especially if you have just a few of the right tools, and it has a great appearance. It's very helpful if someone shows you what to do and how to go about it the first time. Do you think a few people here would be interested in a tutorial on "using laminate in your bus conversion"? And a companion piece might be about trim to compliment it.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:58 PM   #18
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Re: Skoolie Conversions ---- a great group!

Bro' go for it vids and pics....I have had soso results with step by step books (before youtube )
If you got a skill.....post it.and thank you
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:36 PM   #19
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Re: Skoolie Conversions ---- a great group!

Hey LC...Definitely roger on the laminate tips! --- Gonna' be using it over sheet metal on my door and very likely a few other places. Hold up very well.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:01 PM   #20
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Re: Skoolie Conversions ---- a great group!

Adding Roof Airconditioners

I thought I'd show what I did to add a roof air up front in the hole that originally contained the escape hatch. I think almost every bus has at least one of these somewhere in the roof. Longer buses typically have two. A lot of buses come spec'd with the Transpec roof hatch. It's the one that pops up on both ends and also has a lever to release one end so you can swing it out of the way if needed. The pop-up function is nice, because you can also pop up the end(s) to allow ventilation whether parked or driving down the road. I see a lot of local school buses using them in this fashion although when I was in school, none of our buses had these vents. But that was back in the stone ages. I also remember that you could open the hood of a bus and see ground on both sides of the engine. For the most part that has been gone a long time too.

Using the Transpec hatch for an A/C mounting location has a couple advantages. First, there's already a hole cut into your roof so you don't have to do that. Secondly, you don't have to tear out your ceiling to figure out where to put it. There's also a couple of disadvantages though, you're losing an escape hatch should you ever need it, and secondly, the hole is too big to mount an A/C unit over. Roof A/C's need a hole that is more or less 14" X 14". I can't remember the deminsions of the Transpec hatch, but it is several inches larger on all sides. Here was my hole after removing the hatch. At first glance it looks kinda weird until you recognize that you're seeing the rafters and sheet metal on the roof of my parking garage in the center of the hole. If you look around the perimeter of the hole, you can see where the interior trim panel was mounted. You can also see the steel framing around the edges of the hole as well.



Taking the Transpec unit out is easy, except for one part. That one part was on top of my bus roof. There were plenty of 3/16 rivets around the edges of the vent to hold it to the bus roof, but the factory also used a self-leveling sealant around the perimeter of the hatch to seal it. That stuff was T-O-U-G-H. I thought I'd never get it off. The rivets drilled out without any problems but the sealant was not budging. Long story short, I ended up using a long handle gasket scraper and ball ping hammer to get under the sealant and chisel if off the roof top. I think that job took at least three hours if not more. B sure to save the interior and exterior hatch parts for a template. You're going to need both an inside and outside cover to reduce the size of the original hole. If you make the covers the same size as the original hatch cover, you can use the hatch covers as templates to drill the holes in your new cover plates. That way all you have to do is put rivets back into the existing holes.

Here's a view from on top of the roof.



To reduce the size of the hole to one appropriate for a roof A/C unit, I had a local welding shop build framework and weld it to the existing roof braces. The new braces should be the same thickness as the existing ones so the top and bottom plates will be flush like the original vent. My new framework (in the picture below) is painted black. Blue sheet insulation is on either side of it. Don't forget to drill a hole for your electrical cord in one of the sides. Use a grommet in the hole to prevent chafing.



Once you get the new frame work in place, you still have two big holes that need to be reduced down to the 14 X 14 hole of the new framework. I used sheet aluminum for mine, since my roof is also aluminum.



You can see this panel is the one for the top of the roof, with holes already drilled in it by using the old hatch cover as a template. I'm about to spray it with self etching primer and have it painted at a nearby body shop. In the end, this turned out to be a mistake. It cost me twice as much to get it sprayed with 2 part paint as it did to get the interior one powder coated.

Here's the finished product. It turned out good so I was pleased with all the work. One of the things I was really happy about was that I didn't have to take down any ceiling. I really like the ceiling in my transit. It's flat, a laminate, and has a good appearance.



There was one issue I should mention though. Since I wasn't taking down my ceiling, this presented a problem with getting an electrical supply to the unit. The usual way of doing this is to drill through the roof bows and run it through the roof that way. This wasn't really an option for me, as there was more than one bow that I'd have to drill through and I couldn't get to the second one without taking down the ceiling. Since my coach A/C ductwork is down the side of my bus, I'd have to take it down too in order to get to the 2nd roof bow. After thinking about it for a while I came up with plan B. I ran the electrical on the outside of the roof in plastic "conduit" sold at Lowes and HD for "do-it-yourself" electical cords along a wall. Normally this sticks on the surface, but I used flat head screws to attach it permanently. I altered one of the 90 degree connectors by cutting off the elbow and it covers a hole in the new interior panel where the electrical romex goes back in. After painting to match the background, it came out pretty good.



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