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Old 05-21-2014, 11:06 PM   #221
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Re: Smells Like Teen Spirit: Conversion of 1999 Thomas MVP

I work in the airline industry & we have found using easy outs expands the bolts & causes more problems with the easy out breaking so we usally weld a bolt onto the broken bolt & remove that way

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Old 05-21-2014, 11:09 PM   #222
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Re: Smells Like Teen Spirit: Conversion of 1999 Thomas MVP

Quote:
Originally Posted by allwthrrider
I work in the airline industry & we have found using easy outs expands the bolts & causes more problems with the easy out breaking so we usally weld a bolt onto the broken bolt & remove that way
I should add, we have very very good welders, people & machines
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Old 05-22-2014, 09:59 AM   #223
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Re: Smells Like Teen Spirit: Conversion of 1999 Thomas MVP

you could try and use PB blaster and reverse drill bits when you drill it out. it might unscrew when you are drilling it
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:04 PM   #224
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Re: Smells Like Teen Spirit: Conversion of 1999 Thomas MVP

i tried the reverse drill bit method when i had a bolt broken off in th block on my jeep. worse that can happen is that you end up drilling through the bolt like you were planning on doing anyway.
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Old 05-26-2014, 08:53 PM   #225
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Re: Smells Like Teen Spirit: Conversion of 1999 Thomas MVP

Quote:
Originally Posted by porkchopsandwiches
My thoughts exactly. I had them set to blue on a lower brightness while driving at night which caused no glare issues and put out a lot of light without being distracting. We slept with it red at night, just like a 1940s naval ship I slept on in elementary school (not sure if they still use that today or not). I think they do that to keep your night vision while still having enough light to see.
Just a little note: Today's night vision goggles (NVGs) are extremely sensitive to red light, so the military has adopted a special frequency of blue-green light that is nearly invisible to modern NVGs. As it turns out, because of the way red light focuses on the retina, humans can see better with other wavelengths at lower amplitudes. In other words, you can use a lower wattage blue-green bulb to see and read than you would need if using a red bulb.

In a previous life I was an Army pilot and everything in the cockpit was blue-green and practically invisible to the goggles we used for night flight (old-style red lights would shut down the goggles, even at very low levels). To see the instruments or maps, we would just look under the goggles. What was really cool was when ground personnel would use infrared light-sticks to illuminate a landing zone. Through the goggles, it was plain as day, but without them, it was pitch black.
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Old 06-05-2014, 05:38 PM   #226
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Re: Smells Like Teen Spirit: Conversion of 1999 Thomas MVP

More on the engine repair saga.

I stopped putting off the repair and dug in.



Starting off with good vibes.

Removed the alternator, serp belt, alt bracket, upper coolant hose, coolant bleed hose, and a few other things that were in the way. I started removing bolts when I found out one was broken off and missing, on the cylinder that was leaking exhaust. So I removed more and it turned out 4 more were snapped and just sitting in the manifold! Then 3 more snapped when I gave them the slightest twist of a wrench. This is after sitting in a week with PB Blaster and tapping with a hammer to break rust loose.

So I finally break / remove all the bolts and wrestle the turbo and manifold out. The bolts to the turbo are such that you can't easily remove them while it is in the engine bay, so I took it out as a unit.















So 5 bolts came out okay, 6 were snapped flush with the head and one was snapped at the head of the bolt. However, I realized something wasnt right with 3 of the bolts:



Hard to tell from this pic but someone used an angle grinder to shave down this bolt. It is evident in looking at the correct one that somebydy just grabbed whatever bolts and trimmed them down to get them to fit, potentially overtightening them which fatigued them and caused them to snap. OR the thing overheated a lot and caused them to snap. It was evident they were snapped a while (rust heavily on the broken surface) so it isn't my doing

Also, the bolts on the turbo oil drain flange were mismatched, one was covered in anti-sieze and one was rusty as hell. So someone got in here and botched the sh!t out of this job. So I have on order:

12 new manifold bolts
6 new exhaust gaskets
1 new turbo to manifold gasket
o rings and gaskets for turbo oil feed / drain
new turbo oil feed line (very rusty, looks like a pinhole leak could start any second)
Oil feed line flange bolts
Turbo to manifold locknuts
and some other hardware...to the tune of $300. Yay. But at least I will be doing it right.

I brought the manifold to a machine shop today to be planed flat and sandblasted. I know it will rust again but it was just dropping chunks of sh!t everywhere it was so rusty.

The fun step will be drilling out all 6 or so snapped off bolt ends, attemoting to use a fluted screw extractor, it breaking and me drilling them out, attempting to tap the threads, failing, and drilling it out and using a helicoil or timesert. The rest of reassembly beyond that step should be easy.

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Old 06-06-2014, 12:07 PM   #227
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Re: Smells Like Teen Spirit: Conversion of 1999 Thomas MVP

Oh boy, you've stepped in it now!

Well, I suppose it needed to be done...hang in there man!
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Old 06-06-2014, 08:36 PM   #228
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Re: Smells Like Teen Spirit: Conversion of 1999 Thomas MVP

Hey I will pay you $305.00 to pull and re-do mine. See you would make a profit.
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Old 06-06-2014, 10:20 PM   #229
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Re: Smells Like Teen Spirit: Conversion of 1999 Thomas MVP

If the second one is easier than the first then the price should only be $295
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Old 06-07-2014, 09:57 PM   #230
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Re: Smells Like Teen Spirit: Conversion of 1999 Thomas MVP

You guys are hilarious. William, if you need this done i'll do it for cheaper because HOPEFULLY your bolts aren't broken.

Turns out the reason WHY the bolts are broken is because someone who worked on it last was too much of a cheap **** to buy the correct bolts. They took bolts that were longer, presumably not even metric, and cut them down with an angle grinder, didn't bother to shape the ends, and just cross-threaded them in there. So three that were like that came out ok, but 6 snapped. So someones cheapassery is causing me massive amounts of trouble and expense. Thanks, asshole who did this.

I have gotten zero of the broken bolts out and broken 2 easy-outs. So no more of them. The next approach is to drill out the rest, and buy carbide bits for the ones with easy outs in them, and buy these things called Timeserts. They look like this:



Basically a solid version of a helicoil, a more permanent and stronger solution. So you drill out the old bolt and threads a size or 2 larger, tap larger threads, screw this in and then put the regular M10x1.5 bolt in. That is, if I can get the hole drilled / tapped straight and square.

Wish me luck with this so I can get this heap back on the road. So much for that summer road trip!
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Old 06-07-2014, 11:47 PM   #231
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Re: Smells Like Teen Spirit: Conversion of 1999 Thomas MVP

OUCH!!!!!! THAT sux BIG time..... Sorry to hear that!
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Old 06-08-2014, 12:42 PM   #232
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Re: Smells Like Teen Spirit: Conversion of 1999 Thomas MVP

i wish you success.
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:01 PM   #233
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Re: Smells Like Teen Spirit: Conversion of 1999 Thomas MVP

I need some motivation to keep working on this thing, anyone got any ideas?
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:17 PM   #234
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Re: Smells Like Teen Spirit: Conversion of 1999 Thomas MVP

I feel your pain
in the past I have used a mig welder and welded nuts to the end of a broken stud, even if it was broken flush you can weld a nut that is the same size as the stud a combination of the heat and a good weld sometimes works good.
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:57 PM   #235
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Re: Smells Like Teen Spirit: Conversion of 1999 Thomas MVP

I worked in the auto machine shop trade for many years. Repairing broken studs was a daily occurence.
If the head was off, easy to thow it on a bridgport + make sure you get the holes straight. If they are crooked at all, you'll have a hell of a time lining up the manifold.
You have room to work on it-thats a good thing. First center punch the stud -the more perfect you get it will pay off in the end. Start by drilling a small hole-1/8" or so. Then work you way up thru your sizes. Its a lot easier to do 4 or 5 upsizes than try to take it all out at once. Once you get close to final size,I would make up some form of drill fixture to make sure you get the hole right. A piece of metal maybe an inch thick with whatever hole size you use drilled thru it. And have some way to clamp it in place-like off another manifold bolt hole. Your last upsize will hopefully still be in the broken bolt--and not into the head. If the gods are with you, once you get close to the tap drill size, the bolt remnents are thin enough to pick out. I would try to to run a tap down the original holes. Big serts/Time serts are tricky to put in right-and if you mess it up--you are really screwed. You hole is very oversized-and nothing to fall back on after that.
And since the manifold is off, check it for straightness.
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:59 PM   #236
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Re: Smells Like Teen Spirit: Conversion of 1999 Thomas MVP

Hang in there Porkchop --- Sorry to hear it has gotten complicated. But as I recall, you said in your first post you liked getting your hands dirty and fixing things. Here's your chance to do both. Just try to focus on how much better it will be when you are done with it. Good luck bud.
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:18 AM   #237
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Re: Smells Like Teen Spirit: Conversion of 1999 Thomas MVP

Wow. Quite an undertaking. Looks like you're handling it with an optimistic attitude.

Just a quick question: Are you flipping off the engine in the pictures above? All I can see is a middle finger. Haha!

Good luck!
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:22 AM   #238
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Re: Smells Like Teen Spirit: Conversion of 1999 Thomas MVP

Not to be a smarta$$, but what you have there is cake compared to a v8, for the simple fact that you can get at the work easily. I'm a mechanic in the rust belt and just about every ford and dodge truck with a v8 has broken/rusted manifold bolts. With them you have to raise the engine off the mounts, use a 90 degree angle drill, and squeeze your hands in between the head and frame rail just to work on the thing. I only do about 1 a week (that's all the patience I have) so I'm pretty good at doing it. So here's a few suggestions.

I've never had an EZ out work, regardless of the brand. Usually if it came out with an ez out, it would have came out with a vice grips or left handed drill bit.

I've used cobalt drill bits with good success, all the carbide bits seemed to be too brittle to use with anything but a mill. Stay away from your coated hss bits that you can get at the hardware, it might work for the first bolt but the coating will wear off easily, also hardware store bits aren't the best quality in the first place.

If you think it is rusted, heat and penetrating oil will be your best friend. PB blaster is good but I prefer aerokroil. It just seems to work better. If the stud isn't broken flush with the head, get a good visegrips, heat the head up with an acetylene torch, quench the bolt with penetrant, and than turn the stud out with the vice grips. It takes a certain feel to figure out if it's going to come out or snap off. So don't be afraid to heat it up and or quench it multiple times.

If you have a good 220 welder you can try and weld a nut on there, especially the bolts that aren't snapped off flush. It does work but it requires practice and good equipment. I"ve only done it a few times because with the pickups you can't get a welder in there to do it.

If you're going to drill it out, use left handed bits. Making sure the bit is centered is very important, so grind the end of the bolt flat to the head. I then use a 3/16 x 60 single flute uncoated countersink. It has a sharp point and is very good at creating a center. They seem to work better then center drills do or just trying to free hand a regular bit. You can get them at any machine shop, or from here http://www.mcmaster.com/ part # 3285A32 . Then you will use a small bit, and size by size work your way bigger until it screws out via the drill, or you have the whole bolt drilled out.

Any other questions or tips you can pm me.
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Old 06-25-2014, 03:21 PM   #239
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Re: Smells Like Teen Spirit: Conversion of 1999 Thomas MVP

Awesome "rust belt" engineering!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828
Not to be a smarta$$, but what you have there is cake compared to a v8, for the simple fact that you can get at the work easily. I'm a mechanic in the rust belt and just about every ford and dodge truck with a v8 has broken/rusted manifold bolts. With them you have to raise the engine off the mounts, use a 90 degree angle drill, and squeeze your hands in between the head and frame rail just to work on the thing. I only do about 1 a week (that's all the patience I have) so I'm pretty good at doing it. So here's a few suggestions.

I've never had an EZ out work, regardless of the brand. Usually if it came out with an ez out, it would have came out with a vice grips or left handed drill bit.

I've used cobalt drill bits with good success, all the carbide bits seemed to be too brittle to use with anything but a mill. Stay away from your coated hss bits that you can get at the hardware, it might work for the first bolt but the coating will wear off easily, also hardware store bits aren't the best quality in the first place.

If you think it is rusted, heat and penetrating oil will be your best friend. PB blaster is good but I prefer aerokroil. It just seems to work better. If the stud isn't broken flush with the head, get a good visegrips, heat the head up with an acetylene torch, quench the bolt with penetrant, and than turn the stud out with the vice grips. It takes a certain feel to figure out if it's going to come out or snap off. So don't be afraid to heat it up and or quench it multiple times.

If you have a good 220 welder you can try and weld a nut on there, especially the bolts that aren't snapped off flush. It does work but it requires practice and good equipment. I"ve only done it a few times because with the pickups you can't get a welder in there to do it.

If you're going to drill it out, use left handed bits. Making sure the bit is centered is very important, so grind the end of the bolt flat to the head. I then use a 3/16 x 60 single flute uncoated countersink. It has a sharp point and is very good at creating a center. They seem to work better then center drills do or just trying to free hand a regular bit. You can get them at any machine shop, or from here http://www.mcmaster.com/ part # 3285A32 . Then you will use a small bit, and size by size work your way bigger until it screws out via the drill, or you have the whole bolt drilled out.

Any other questions or tips you can pm me.
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Old 06-25-2014, 04:14 PM   #240
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Re: Smells Like Teen Spirit: Conversion of 1999 Thomas MVP

I don't know if I'd call it engineering, more like trial and error,dumb luck and persistence all rolled together.

Another thing I forgot to add. If you're getting frustrated at it, walk away and do something else until you forget about it. I was doing a dodge once( another shop used the wrong bolt like what you have here) and got so pissed I started throwing tools. Walked away and cooled off and wound up pulling the bolt out in less than 5 minutes. A project like this requires patience, and the first thing to go out the door when you're angry is patience. So keep a cool head.
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