The Albatross Chronicles; bird meets Blue Bird, silliness ensues

[joeblack5]

Pretty cool, thanks for the picture of the custom citroen. pretty wild..


I will go to my citroen tomorrow and take a tape along.


Johan

[Elliot Naess]

I looked for a Citroen DS windshield (online), and I found one for around $650 plus $250 shipping. But yes, it would sure be fun to see what the DS measures.

On the Albatross, the measurement along the curve of the TOP of the glass is about the same as the bottom -- very roughly 59.

Now....

Obviously, I do not expect to find a glass that snaps right in.
And I also expect to fabricate a new frame.
But the Albatross was built in a way that makes it easy to adapt a less curved glass: The "top of the dashboard" is a continuation of the fuselage skin! So, the new glass can sit further back, as suggested with this red line. I would not need to extend the "hood", since Grumman clearly expected I would be doing this.

[banman]

You're a burner -- why am I not surprised...
Absolutely love how you built the ramp on Millicent!
(gives me hope to an affordable ramp in the future...)

Sorry for the delay...

Not quite the precision for building jets but...



I think these measurements include the curve so you'll have to apply some fuzzy-math but it seems like it's a good candidate for your build...
This is from a convertible but I'm almost certain all C900's used the same windshield -- the angle of the 'vert windshield is more upright though if memory serves...

I'd call around to your local junkyards and see if a C900 is there or if somebody is parting out one close to you or someone you know and cut out the whole windshield frame section. It will be hard to make your own frame -- unless you just want to spooge the windshield in place and not use the oem gasket. Any lateral stress to the glass will manifest itself when you hit a good bump...

[Elliot Naess]

Me, a Burner? Well, when I donate blood, the blood-bank complains they have to filter out the Playa Dust.

Alas, the convertible has a considerably taller windshield than the hatchbacks and sedans.
Part number FW00529 for the rag-top, and FW00394 for the others. And in the catalog below, you see the heights. There is also a slight difference in the width, so I suspect the frame is all different.
Best I can tell, the measurements follow the surface of the glass.





Today I was in Sacramento (big city) and made a slight detour to the SAAB-Volvo-BMW salvage yard.
Almost the first thing the man said was that the convertible windshield is quite different.
What's worse is that these cars a rare, so I have still not seen one in person. The nearest wrecking yards that have a C900 at all, are roughly three hours away. But I might make that trip.

But there are surely a bunch of these cars sitting on three-flat-tires-and-a-brick in people's back yards, so I will start shouting.

[banman]

Well, those measurements do fit the 'vert in the pic I sent pretty closely so that would confirm your thoughts about how those measurements are given.

Still see 'em around CO a lot but now that I'm in OH full time I don't see them hardly at all. And I never see a 9000 like I drive...

Still, the replacement prices I saw were only $200ish which is good. I should think you want something repairable/replaceable for all the work you'll be doing to make it fit.

Shouldn't have to travel that far just to look at one.

Check your CL or FB marketplace for someone near you selling one -- just be honest about why you want to see it, maybe offer to bring their favorite libation for their time...

This one probably doesn't help you (unless you're driving a truck out there) but gives you an idea...
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...8748141662373/

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by banman

Well, those measurements do fit the 'vert in the pic I sent pretty closely so that would confirm your thoughts about how those measurements are given.

Still see 'em around CO a lot but now that I'm in OH full time I don't see them hardly at all. And I never see a 9000 like I drive...

Still, the replacement prices I saw were only $200ish which is good. I should think you want something repairable/replaceable for all the work you'll be doing to make it fit.

Shouldn't have to travel that far just to look at one.

Check your CL or FB marketplace for someone near you selling one -- just be honest about why you want to see it, maybe offer to bring their favorite libation for their time...

This one probably doesn't help you (unless you're driving a truck out there) but gives you an idea...
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...8748141662373/

one stop Saab on harrisburg pike often has cars or pieces of them for sale.. im sure they can also point people the right direction for parts, interest, etc.....

[banman]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

one stop Saab on harrisburg pike often has cars or pieces of them for sale.. im sure they can also point people the right direction for parts, interest, etc.....

Wait what?! The things I learn on this forum!

[Kaleth2]

I’m a neophyte on this forum and probably have no reason to pipe up with my thin knowledge base. I wondered if you could cut a windshield to size. Looked it up and, no on tempered glass, but yes on safety glass...which I had never heard of. According to this site Techniques for Cutting Automotive Safety Glass, safety glass was used on cars 1930s through 70s. If you could find the approx curve you wanted in those years, you might be able to have the glass cut to height you want.
How am I going to start my little short bus build thread with the amazing and fun builds you all are creating
Thanks for the inspiration! Am having fun following!!!

[Elliot Naess]

Thanks for that link, Kaleth2!
I might add that "safety glass" could be either type -- laminated or tempered.

These two types of glass are safer than house-window glass -- that's what they mean by "safety" glass in cars. And the laminated type is the only type used in windshields still. The reference to the 1970s should make it clearer that this was the time when windshields switched from tempered to laminated.

Let's start at the beginning.
Have you ever noticed that cars built in the 1910s and 1920s were almost always open cars -- they had no metal roof and no glass side-windows. This was not because they could not figure out how to make metal roofs!

It was because glass was horribly dangerous in crashes, "House" glass would break into large shards which would cut people "in half", and people (wisely) refused to travel inside "boxes of flying knives".

Tempered glass breaks into a bazillion tiny pieces, removing fewer limbs and heads in mishaps.
However, tempered glass breaks this way in "two stages". First, it cracks into the bazillion pieces, but the bazillion pieces do not go anywhere -- the pieces stay in place, but the glass turns effectively solid gray, and the driver cannot see thru it!

The driver then had to punch his fist thru the glass to create an opening to see thru (the second stage -- the bazillion pieces separate and fall down) so he could steer the car while stopping it.
Of course, the bazillion tiny pieces were never great for human eyes, either.

This is why laminated glass was mandated for windshields. Even a well-aimed brick will not likely go thru the plastic layer, and there will still be enough clear area for the driver to see thru. And there are far fewer eye-injuring tiny pieces.

Custom car builders routinely have curved laminated windshields cut down to fit under a lowered ("chopped") roof. I know a few of those guys from my days writing for a car magazine, so I could ask one.

But at this point, I am hoping to find a glass I can use "off the shelf".

[Kaleth2]

Thanks for that info Elliot. Very interesting stuff. I bet you’ve seen some fun and crazy cars! I love the Decoliner showcased on Leno’s garage. https://youtu.be/JUzqXJjpq94. I’ve Ben having fun play with a product called Apoxie Clay. 2 part resin that can be molded, carved, used stick to near mist anything. I use it over carved closed cell insulation in layers with fiberglass tape to add strength. I’m curious if it could be adhered and molded to the fiberglass hood of our bus. More like bad relief than any large extensions that would need steel infrastructural reinforcement. Hmmmm. Only just got the seats out of the bus and starting in paneling. Long ways to go! Vague designs dancing in my head about a custom sculpted apoxie dash!

[cowlitzcoach]

I am wondering if a compound curve windshield out of a late 1950's and early 1960's Mopar might work for you.

[Elliot Naess]

Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach

I am wondering if a compound curve windshield out of a late 1950's and early 1960's Mopar might work for you.

Can you show me an example? The NAGS catalog I have goes back to 1949, but "Chrysler products" is a wide field.

[cowlitzcoach]

Originally Posted by Elliot Naess

Can you show me an example? The NAGS catalog I have goes back to 1949, but "Chrysler products" is a wide field.

I will try to post some photos or links.


1964 Chrysler 300: https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/1964-C...ureId=21977059


1960's Chrysler: https://fiftiesweb.com/cars/album60-chrysler/


1957 Desoto: https://en.wheelsage.org/desoto/adve...3279/pictures/


If you look closely the late 1950's to mid-1960's Mopars curved not only right to left but from top to bottom as well.

[Elliot Naess]

Thanks!
Those early 1960s Chryslers have rather tall windshields -- 26 to 31 inches tall. But I will study this further. Thanks!

[banman]

Originally Posted by Elliot Naess

Thanks!
Those early 1960s Chryslers have rather tall windshields -- 26 to 31 inches tall. But I will study this further. Thanks!

If you wanna go big the windshield on IHC p'ups from the 1960's and Loadstars from the 60's to mid 80's have the same nice curved glass.
It'll be readily available because the Loadstars are still in popular use...

[joeblack5]

Took a couple if measurement of my citroen front windshield. Not so good with dimensioning like banman.

Lower side inside corner to corner 50" 4" higher in center and about 11" out towards the nose. The lower width along the windshield is in the pic.

On top the inside 45" and along the glass 50"

The height along the glass in the centre 19.5" and on each side 18"

Let me know if you need better pic..more dimension. There is a DS here in the scrap..at least a couple of months ago. Doubt if it would be more the 100 but shipping would kill it.. Then we will.likely visit Oregon next year around this time.

Johan

[ermracing]

If you could use something a little smaller, the Opel GT had a pretty curved windshield.

[Elliot Naess]

And... the winner is... SAAB 900 "Classic" 1978 to 1993, sedans and hatchbacks.



A brand new FW00394, $258 out the door.






And a few days later, a 1986 SAAB 900 hatchback in junk condition -- ruined engine, for one thing.
I paid too much -- $600 -- but I did not even bargain on the price, since these are downright scarce now. And I scored a good windshield in the bargain, so now I have a spare.

I have stripped all parts in the vicinity of the windshield and will cut the windshield-frame out of the body and trim that frame until I can fit it to the Albatross.

I even found a brand new rubber molding (gasket) for this specific windshield.

How did I decide on this windshield?
I perused a NAGS catalog (National Auto Glass Specifications), and studied the curvature intensely in countless photos.

[Elliot Naess]

I think I harvested pretty much all I can use of the SAAB.
And I gave the remains to the local salvage yard, who picked it up the next day. No useless junk taking up space!


In other news, I have concluded that I can install the airplane roughly 19 inches lower on the bus than originally planned.
I do not know why it took me so long to figure this out! Well... it was because I considered the bottom edge of the fuselage to be a fix element, and it needs reasonable ground clearance.

But guess what... I can trim it.
I am playing with scissors and glue on a photo, and everything fits and looks better when I trim the "skirt" and lower the cockpit.
(To be continued sooner or later.)

[Elliot Naess]

Here we see the earlier estimate of where the airplane cockpit would be installed on the bus.

Ignore the forward-leaning angle -- it will actually be level. (The forward-leaning angle is a leftover from when I worried about the driver seeing over the "hood".)

There are two floors involved, illustrated by the orange color, with the airplane floor located 19 inches – two steps -- above the bus floor. This positioned the bottom edge of the airplane fuselage at suitable ground clearance, matching the bottom edge of the bus body.

But then just a couple days ago, I measured more accurately and – the more important part -- realized that I can perfectly well trim off the excess of the fuselage, which is only a "skirt" anyway (same as on the bus body).

This allows the two floors to become one. The airplane floor can be bolted directly onto the bus floor. (And I can surely slope the small transition to avoid a trip hazard.)
Amazingly, when we look at the bus floor, we see that the floor in the driver's "cubicle" is actually two inches higher than the rest of the floor. The new airplane cockpit floor will match this!



There are several advantages to this arrangement.

It will be easier to blend the airplane roof into the bus roof, because it will not be necessary to raise the bus roof "to the sky". (We do want to raise the bus roof for headroom, but we do not need a "Boeing 747 First Class cabin" up there!)

With the driver sitting lower, it will be easier to see the ground in front of the vehicle for pedestrian safely.

The tall space under the nose, where the "boat" used to be, will be reduced to normal ground clearance.

I should be able to use the original bus steering column.

The whole project will be easier to work on, since everything will be lower to the ground. Meaning... fewer steps for an old coot to climb on ladders and scaffolding. And a shorter fall.

Originally, I wanted to keep the wheel-wells out of the cockpit, but there is four-and-a-half feet of space between them, which is enough.

The radiator will still fit under the "hood".
The intercooler may need a bit of tweaking to fit, which is surely doable. Or cut "race car" openings in the "hood" for it, and pretend it is supposed to be that way.

And since I will be modifying the fuselage skirts anyway, I might as well reinstall them with quick-release fasteners, for ease of maintenance in the future.

Now I can comfortably resume actually working on it!