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Old 09-02-2014, 01:49 PM   #101
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Here's the major tools I use to make this happen. Granted, I already own most of these tools so my upfront cost is not very high.

It is not really that difficult from a skills perspective - it's just a lot of labor. The thing that you'll need practice on the most is welding. Yes, it's easily possible to weld 20 gauge sheetmetal all day long without buckles, bows or bumps. You just need to use the proper technique to get it done the right way.


110 volt welder with a gas bottle: http://www.weldersupply.com/P/223/Mille ... WAutoSet11 (tack on another $300 for a cart, bottle, regulator, helmet, gloves)
Sheet metal shears: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-6- ... 5yc1vZc2a9
The rivet gun set (jazty convinced me!): http://www.amazon.com/Boulderfly-Deluxe ... 00AFJ33MI/
Air chisel: http://www.harborfreight.com/medium-bar ... 69866.html
Small Angle grinder: http://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-4-1-2 ... 5yc1vZc2fw
Get flap discs, cutoff wheels, and a couple thick grinding wheels for the angle grinder.
Suction cups to lift the sheet metal panels into place and hold them: http://www.harborfreight.com/aluminum-s ... 92825.html
Dead blow to TAP (not hammer and then bend!) the panels into place: http://www.harborfreight.com/4-lb-neon- ... 41800.html
Cleco kit (check out the rivet gun kit, amazon suggests buying the same kit (about $60) that I got.
48" t-square for marking straight lines on steel sheet
Abrasive chop saw: http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-D28710-14- ... B00551DJBQ
Straight pattern tin snip for minor adjustments: http://www.harborfreight.com/7-inch-str ... 66592.html
Various ratchets, wrenches, etc for taking crap apart
Cordless drill: http://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-18-Vo ... 7fZ1z140i3
Various drillbits of the correct sizes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by skrapgiarc
I would love to have the tools/ability to do this. Very nice!

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Old 09-02-2014, 02:02 PM   #102
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

gotta be the sharpest caps done yet
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:16 PM   #103
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Does the winky mean the truth, or in jest?

Someone a few pages back mentioned kammback and I got inspired. Not that a 40' long brick is aerodynamic...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bansil
gotta be the sharpest caps done yet
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Old 09-02-2014, 08:50 PM   #104
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Awesome Work!!! It looks GREAT
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:51 PM   #105
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Man it is just pouring rain outside, I guess summer is done. I hope I can get a few more dry days to get the riveting done. Sheetmetal hung just in time.

The bus drips a little from the loose joints but nothing unexpected.

I'm pretty sure I'm right under that red spot in the middle of the map.

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Old 09-03-2014, 12:04 AM   #106
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Nice job! It's looking pretty cool!
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Old 09-03-2014, 07:15 AM   #107
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronsb
Does the winky mean the truth, or in jest?

Someone a few pages back mentioned kammback and I got inspired. Not that a 40' long brick is aerodynamic...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bansil
gotta be the sharpest caps done yet
It's a good thing
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:42 AM   #108
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

YEAH! Looks like a great life adventure.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:56 PM   #109
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

It's certainly the largest vehicle I've worked on!

Here's some random photos of stuff I've worked on from a long time ago (more than a decade!) up until recently. Each of them has been a learning experience in life.

http://imgur.com/a/vGpis




Quote:
Originally Posted by theombiancebus
YEAH! Looks like a great life adventure.
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Old 09-03-2014, 04:31 PM   #110
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

I think your bus looks awesome but I have one question about the back cap. Do you think having it straight with sharp edges will hurt mileage?
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:39 PM   #111
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Based on thjakits's suggestion,

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=467654&start=30#p591056

I started looking at kamm airfoils and decided it would be pretty easy to stick a kamm foil on the rear end of a brick, er, I mean, bus.

You can't see it from the photos, but the last about 5 feet of the roof taper down by approximately 3 inches to give a shape approximating the kamm end foil.

It seems like all the hypermilage kids are taping cardboard onto the butts of their cars, and you see those semi trucks with the crazy unfolding tail thing, so I figured I could build something in there that looked OK and sort of served a purpose.

I think on a car, a kammback instantly gives the vehicle a shape that, stylistically, looks dated or weird. On the bus it seems OK to me.

Take a look at some visual examples here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=kamm+ba ... r&tbm=isch

In the end, the sharp hood over the end is more about keeping water and rain off the end of the bus than anything else, and visually I think it looks better than the rounded endcap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycal
I think your bus looks awesome but I have one question about the back cap. Do you think having it straight with sharp edges will hurt mileage?
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Old 09-03-2014, 07:55 PM   #112
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

...up that high the sharp edges should not be a safety problem.
In any case you always can make the edge blunt - Kamm design will work as long as the air gets a clean break from the surface - so the edge of the upper rear end cap has to be as sharp as you dare...
The basic idea is, that the air leaves the rear edge without a chance to "follow" the surface. Rounded edges ALWAYS drag some of the air around the edge curve (koanda effect) and finally create turbulence.
The soft downwards curve of cars at the rear is just a design compromise - Kamm didn't care if it goes straight back or slightly down (...it seems the max angle you can curve down is 11° - after that air would become turbulent (as opposed to laminar flow) and create more drag.

There is plenty of reading and looking and studying on the net, regarding vehicle aerodynamics - you wouldn't believe how much difference it makes to point the exhaust correctly - from actually getting some thrust from it, ....or at least zero drag, to acting like a bloody parachute - straight up stacks are a big aerodynamic no-no!
Then - how often do you go at full speed and for how long? Not likely that any of the buses on here do even 1% of the average Long-hauler distances.....

Also, IF you plan to put anything on the roof - solar panels, roof deck, water tank, roof cargo pod, etc, ...your airflow is turbulent LOOOOONG before it ever hits the rear cap!
However - looking that sharp, I'd stick a few vortex generators on it, just 'cause!!
[But don't use the huge ones that are used to streamline long-haulers, too big and ugly!!]

Cheers,

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Old 09-04-2014, 11:33 PM   #113
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Just pounding in the rivets...

Takes longer when there is a left and right side.
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Old 09-05-2014, 03:46 PM   #114
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

When it came time to remove our floor on the 1996 Bluebird All American we found the best tools to be a 5 foot straight bar like landscapers use and a 4 foot wrecking bar with a nail puller on one end.
I would use the long bar and the wife the short one. I would slide the long bar under the plywood and she would slip in the shorter bar to hold the floor up while I pushed the long bar in deeper and we lifted
the plywood up off of the nails that they used to hold the flooring down. When we got the plywood up the long wrecking bar was used to pull the nails which pinged off of the ceiling when they came out of the floor. Nails that wouldn't extract that way we would pound side to side to widen the hole in the floor sufficiently to release the nail. Also have you checked out Airtabs for further streamlining on your bus? I was toying with the idea of using some conveyor belt bolted to the from bumper for a makeshift airdam since 50% of air drag is created from air hitting the under carriage.
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Old 09-05-2014, 06:08 PM   #115
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

...who is doing the bucking bar?

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Old 09-05-2014, 07:23 PM   #116
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

You might want to check on the BCM bus forum before you add air dams under your bus. There are several discussions of the topic over there. Depending on where your radiator gets its cool air from, an additional air dam may mess up the factory cooling. My bus has a front engine with the radiator in the conventional location. There is a factory installed dam between the frame rails and directly under the radiator. This set up produces high pressure in front of the radiator and low pressure behind it thereby forcing air through the radiator (and doing whatever else it might be good for). My two cents worth.
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Old 09-05-2014, 07:44 PM   #117
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

.....YOU - want to play with airdams, cold air intakes, SITING LOW/HIGH pressure areas on your vehicle??

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/search/ind ... 21&x=0&y=0

WARNING! THIS SITE IS ABSOLUTELY ADDICTING!



YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!

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Old 09-05-2014, 07:49 PM   #118
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=2159

http://www.autospeed.com/A_2160/cms/article.html

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=2162

OBVIOUSLY all car stuff - but the how-to, theory, practical application is just the same for the buss - just BIGGER!

....especially if you have RE cooling problems - try to figure out the airflow in the "engine room" ....


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Old 09-05-2014, 09:48 PM   #119
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

A friend of a friend who is studying to work in aerospace, (Boeing) installing rivets. How lucky am I?


Quote:
Originally Posted by thjakits
...who is doing the bucking bar?

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Old 09-05-2014, 09:52 PM   #120
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Fun fact for some (all?) of you who own a front-engine bus on an International chassis and possibly others:
Have you noticed where the air intake is on the hood/cowling? It's right below the front windshield with the opening facing the windshield. Why? Because the windshield creates a high pressure area which helps push air into the engine! Or so I've read, anyhow.
Now that's clever use of poor aerodynamics...
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