The Camel Conversion Project

[PDBreske]

An update on the registration: It cost me $830 to register, title and get a new plate for this vehicle in Florida. Ouch.

[PDBreske]

I just finished removing the two 8D batteries that were being used both as starting batteries and for the inverter power. One was about half full of water and the other was bone dry. I don't know how they were able to even start the engine, much less provide any power to the house.

I'm going to see if these batteries can be saved by topping off with distilled water and plugging them into a charger. Does anyone know if this will work or am I wasting my time?

One of the complaints of the previous owner was the inverter would occasionally cut out while driving. I thought it might have been a loose connection somewhere, but now I'm thinking it may have been the inverter's low-voltage cut-off doing its job.

Either way, now that the power is removed, I'm going to tear out all the house wiring and start from scratch. What was in here before was crap and it needs to be done the right way. And that includes separating the starting batteries from the inverter batteries.

[PDBreske]

Oh, I know I'll need to replace the existing setup with a suitably separated system. I was just wondering if I will be able to revive these batteries.

The dry battery looks fine on the outside. In fact, they both look like new once I wiped off the dirt and grime.

I am assuming the dry battery is completely dead, but the half-full one was able to easily start the vehicle engine every time I turned the key, so I may re-use that one for starting and buy 6V batts for the house power. Of course, if I use only one battery for starting, it's going to look awful lonely in that giant battery box under the floor.

[Redbear]

Originally Posted by Iceni John

- remember that batteries don't die, they are murdered!

I had to laugh - that must be the quote of the month!

[PDBreske]

Got a lot of work done over the last two days. I removed the interior walls down to the outer skin. Most of the sections were easy, but the panels with electrical outlets were a bit more involved. The panels around the doors, however, were nothing but a pain to remove. In addition to the metal strengthening ribs that run from top to bottom along the skin, there was also THREE layers of plywood about ten inches wide around each door and window opening. Each layer was screwed AND glued to the layer underneath it. Lots of hammer and prybar use today.

I had a bad feeling about the flanges that were previously used to attach the bookmobile walls and shelves, but near the end of today's work I figured out that standard 2x4 framing will clear the flanges. I was afraid I was going to have to grind off the weld beads and rivets that held on those flanges, but now I know I can just leave them in place and they will disappear under the new walls. Sweet.

Pictures tomorrow.

[PDBreske]

Some of the photos I took the other day were deleted when I had to restore my phone (long story), but here's a new one:

Pulling down plywood to get to bare ceiling


You can see that I have the overhead console cleaned out above the driver's seat and the A/C lower half is removed. I'm going to be pulling out both A/C units and selling them on craigslist. Anybody know a good price to ask for two Coleman RV A/Cs?

[PDBreske]

By the way, I measured the generator box and I will have room for six 2V batteries if I decide to do that. Apparently, that would give me over 1400Ah of battery capacity. That's at the 100-hr discharge rate. A slower rate would yield even more capacity. I can't imagine pulling over 14 amps continuously for a hundred hours, so I'm guessing I'd have a lot more capacity than that.

Still, six of those batteries cost a LOT of money. Luckily, the battery purchase is something I'm putting off until near the end of this conversion. Right now I'm still in the decision phase.

[PDBreske]

I decided that I needed to pull down the walls and ceilings in the back half of the vehicle. There was some leftover 12-volt wiring going into the walls back there and I wanted to make absolutely sure before I started framing the front half that this old wiring was necessary. It turns out, it isn't.

The taillights are all serviced by wiring under the chassis. The wiring I found inside was strictly for the interior lights, thermostats, and some outside lighting that hasn't worked since the vehicle was used as a bookmobile (in fact, most of those light fixtures have long since been removed from over the doors and outside walls). Now that I know what isn't necessary, I can pull it all out and frame the new interior right to the corners.

Pulling the remaining walls required peeling up the carpet. The back of the RV was where the previous owner's bedroom was, and under the bed was where his cats made their home (and, at times, toilet). It smelled really bad.


Since I haven't pictured this before, I wanted to show how I had to rip out the wall paneling to get to the screws that held the plywood to the walls. I found it was easier to use a prybar to rip a narrow channel along the line that followed the aluminum U-channel that gives the outer walls their strength and provides a mounting point for everything on the inside. Most of the screws were located along this line.


I would hammer the prybar under the paneling, then push down on the handle to rip about two inches, then hammer again and the process continues. Hearing protection was required (very loud when you hammer metal-on-metal) and gloves. My hands today are immensely tired and sore from all the banging.

[PDBreske]

I just added a cost analysis to the first post. I want anyone who's interested to know the total cost of purchasing and renovating such a vehicle. Too many people are too cagey about what they spend on a project like this, and that doesn't help anyone looking to do it themselves.

[Bullwhacker007]

Awesome score on the Bookmobile.
I am concerned and also curious about putting your jeep in the back?
Have you checked with the manufacturer about load weight?
Not counting any weight in the conversion your jeep weights around 3500-4000 lbs depending on what you have on it.
That is almost TWO TONS you are putting on the vehicle and that is on the outside of the axle on the end of the bus.
You mention your buses rear is already sagging it will most likely be sitting on the travel stops when loaded and you would need way more than "helper" springs. Have you done the math in regards of keeping the vehicle weight bias ratio where it should be when loaded? With that jeep and where your holding tanks, etc. are going to be your rear end might be heavier than the front of the bus; you will spin out if it is.
That is allot of weight on the end when your making a turn on a slippery road.
Another question is how are you going to get out of the jeep?
Are you going to crawl out the back of the jeep after you park it?
All states limit a vehicles max. width to around no more than 96" including the mirrors.
You also would have to re enforce the buses floor to hold and handle the jeeps weight when loaded?
Have you considered a "shorty" two axle car trailer to pull your jeep on?
Many off roaders use these types of trailers to haul their rock crawlers.
I would imagine the cost would be far less than the vehicle mods required to carry the jeep piggyback.
Unless you have gone pure digital; the space could be used as your "Lab" for processing.
Just my two cents and I look forward to the finished project.

[wtd]

Ocala - hm small world, my brother-in-law used to be a Marion County Commissioner, he lives in Oklawaha tho'.

[pipopak]

Originally Posted by PDBreske

My conversion plans include a lot of fresh water storage—currently the plans call for a 150 gallon tank (or maybe two 75 gallon tanks). I want to be able to survive for long periods without needing to find water, hence the "Camel" nickname. (The same web site also sells camel skulls, so you know what goes to end up over the front windows of my bus.)

Probably wiser to with 2 tanks, if something happens you do not want to lose all the water at once.

[lornaschinske]

Originally Posted by wtd

Ocala - hm small world, my brother-in-law used to be a Marion County Commissioner, he lives in Oklawaha tho'.

Ocala... My family is from Pierson. No one knows where that is unless they live close to it!

[PDBreske]

Originally Posted by Bullwhacker007

Awesome score on the Bookmobile.
I am concerned and also curious about putting your jeep in the back?
Have you checked with the manufacturer about load weight?
Not counting any weight in the conversion your jeep weights around 3500-4000 lbs depending on what you have on it.
That is almost TWO TONS you are putting on the vehicle and that is on the outside of the axle on the end of the bus.
You mention your buses rear is already sagging it will most likely be sitting on the travel stops when loaded and you would need way more than "helper" springs. Have you done the math in regards of keeping the vehicle weight bias ratio where it should be when loaded? With that jeep and where your holding tanks, etc. are going to be your rear end might be heavier than the front of the bus; you will spin out if it is.
That is allot of weight on the end when your making a turn on a slippery road.
Another question is how are you going to get out of the jeep?
Are you going to crawl out the back of the jeep after you park it?
All states limit a vehicles max. width to around no more than 96" including the mirrors.
You also would have to re enforce the buses floor to hold and handle the jeeps weight when loaded?
Have you considered a "shorty" two axle car trailer to pull your jeep on?
Many off roaders use these types of trailers to haul their rock crawlers.
I would imagine the cost would be far less than the vehicle mods required to carry the jeep piggyback.
Unless you have gone pure digital; the space could be used as your "Lab" for processing.
Just my two cents and I look forward to the finished project.

I'm only 98 percent sold on the idea of carrying the Jeep inside. I'm almost finished clearing the interior, after which I'm going to take it to a local truck scale and get it weighed so I'll know the empty weight on the front and rear axles. At that point I'll make a final determination about its ability to carry another vehicle. At this point, however, I've removed a few hundred pounds of paneling and shelves and other permanently attached stuff, and the bookmobile at one point did carry a couple thousand books, and as anyone who has ever move belongings from one house to another well knows, books are the heaviest thing in the universe.

The interior is about 18 inches wider than the Jeep. I'm a thin guy, so I can open the Jeep's driver door and squeeze out even while it's parked inside the back of the bus.

The floor of this thing is unbelievably strong already. The subflooring is two layers of 3/4" plywood with four inches of rigid insulation under that. It feels like a poured concrete foundation when you walk on it. Still, I had planned to attach two ramps made from 4x4s to the floor where the Jeep resides, if only to cover the rear steps where the right side tires will pass over the gap.

Off-road enthusiasts only use two-axle trailers to haul Jeeps that aren't by themselves road legal. Putting the transfer case into neutral for towing allows the wheels to turn without wear and tear on the transmission and without putting miles on the odometer. Still puts miles on the tires, but since they aren't driving or braking the Jeep, they will last much longer than during regular driving. Again, that's still towing and I hate towing anything. If I can carry it inside, I will.

The only thing I need for on-the-road processing is my computer and printer. The bulk of my printing for shows will be online labs, but for the occasional quick turnaround print I can do that on my in-house printer.

[PDBreske]

Originally Posted by pipopak

Probably wiser to with 2 tanks, if something happens you do not want to lose all the water at once.

I also thought that if I ever got tainted water from a questionable source, I could dump it and still have clean water in the other tank. As with firearms, "two is one and one is none."

[wtd]

I also thought that if I ever got tainted water from a questionable source, I could dump it and still have clean water in the other tank

Just curious about the water fascination ....
If you somehow wind up with 'tainted' water in one tank and potable water in the other it would seem that the water came from two different sources, which means that you're refilling you tank(s) when one is empty and one is not and using only half your capacity.
Well if you suddenly discover bad water in one tank and dump it then aren't you sitting there with one tank full and one tank empty and it's refill time anyway?
Sometimes it's handy to sit back and run some film to see if a situation that we're planning for is likely to occur and the value of the work involved to avoid it.

On another forum I read a post by a guy that was quite proud of the fact that he not only had a second water pump, but that he'd actually plumbed it into his system - 'as a backup'. Well, I keep a second pump on hand, my pump has failed once in 5 years and took about 20 minutes to install the new one. 20 minutes of work in 5 years. The other guy spent a coupla days plumbing for and installing a whole pump, that if his experience was like mine would have been required only once in 5 years and cost a coupla days of work - for that matter it may never have happened and a coupla days work and a bunch of material wasted. If my pump hadn't failed I'd have lost the 5 minutes it took to throw it in a comparment.

Not trying to be critical - that's the great thing about this place, 'run what you brung' ... just offering a thought.

Tom

[PDBreske]

Originally Posted by wtd

Just curious about the water fascination ....
If you somehow wind up with 'tainted' water in one tank and potable water in the other it would seem that the water came from two different sources, which means that you're refilling you tank(s) when one is empty and one is not and using only half your capacity.
Well if you suddenly discover bad water in one tank and dump it then aren't you sitting there with one tank full and one tank empty and it's refill time anyway?
Sometimes it's handy to sit back and run some film to see if a situation that we're planning for is likely to occur and the value of the work involved to avoid it.

Or, it could be that I fill a recently emptied tank as soon as I find a source and test the water immediately after filling. If the new water is bad, I simply drain it and look for a new source while I use the previously-vetted and full second tank.

On the other hand, I could fill a partially drained single tank and then find the water is bad, forcing me to drain the whole thing and then I'd be without water, as would anybody in that situation.

Better or worse?

[wtd]

Or, it could be that I fill a recently emptied tank as soon as I find a source and test the water immediately after filling. If the new water is bad, I simply drain it and look for a new source while I use the previously-vetted and full second tank.

How much water are you 'using' driving around looking for another source?
I'd suggest, if you're going to test it, you'd test if before you put it in the tank - avoids the whole situation.
Then simply move on to another source.

Turn the water into time - I live in the desert and I can find 5 places to fill my tank in about 20 minutes - do you really need 75 gallons to get you to another source of water? I use about 5 gallons a day, 75 gallons would give me a coupla weeks to get some more.

On the other hand, I could fill a partially drained single tank and then find the water is bad, forcing me to drain the whole thing and then I'd be without water, as would anybody in that situation

So?
How long does it take to find some more? It ain't the Sahara out here.
When you find out you're outta water are you going to have a sudden urge to shower, boil pasta and give the dog a bath?
Once again, I'd test it before I put it in the tank if I was that worried about it - avoids the whole problem.

Bad water's not like a load of bad fuel - it's not going surprise you (if you test before filling) and it' not gonna leave you exactly stranded and desperate.
Throw a five gallon jug in a compartment if you're worried about it.

Again, not trying to be snotty - just sayin' ....
If you want 2 75 gallon tanks, more power to ya' .. I'd love 150 gal. worth tank, just don't know where I'd put it.

Tom

[PDBreske]

Over the past few days I've been removing the unused/legacy/defunct 12-volt wiring in an effort to simplify the new wiring scheme I'll be installing. In the process, I found something interesting: an Emergency Start button.

On the dash to the left of the steering wheel in a button marked Emergency Start. I followed the wire from this button and it leads to a solenoid similar to a starter solenoid/relay in the battery box. Connected to the solenoid are two heavy gauge wires that were connected to the positive terminals of the two batteries.

Here's what I think—you tell me if I'm right or wrong: Only one battery was routinely used for starting the vehicle's engine, while both were used as house batteries for the RV. If the main starting battery were depleted to the point it would no longer crank the engine, the Emergency Start button could be depressed and it would combine the two batteries' cranking power to turn over the engine. Does that sound right? If not, any other ideas?

I'm also guessing this feature wasn't used very often (if ever) as the wire from the button was only barely making contact at the terminal on the solenoid. The nut holding it down was loose and the connector could be freely wiggled with a fingertip. As we already know, only one of the batteries was useable as the second was nearly bone dry, so the engine will start easily with only one good battery.

Does anyone else have an Emergency Start button on an International 3800 bus with a DT466 engine?

[lornaschinske]

RE: Potable water

Sanidumps Dump stations generally have potable water. This site will show dump station locations. They do not list all the "other" places you can get potable water (almost any place with a hose bibb). For a lot of the NF parks, at least in the east, you may need to make a water thief (also known as a water stealer) to get a hose hooked up to the unthreaded pipe stands. You can buy them or make one yourself.

You can dump waste and fill potable (for a fee) at most any campground. You can get potable water at Lowes, Home Depot, Wal-Mart (garden), K-Mart (garden), Fire Departments, car washes and gas stations. I am in the "filter as you fill" group.