The Murder Bus...

[EastCoastCB]

To me oils oil. It it meets the rating and I can afford it that's what I run. I can do my changes for around $50-$60. That's less than a lot of folks pay to have jiffy lube screw up their car.

[banman]

Originally Posted by Native

SNIP...


For what it's worth, I have a 21 litre (5.38 gallon) front sump oil pan on our FS-65. What I do not know is if it includes the oil filter. Six gallons should be enough for a change. No telling what that mark on the dipstick might mean. I have a note on my aftercooler housing that reads "23 quarts" ... no clue as to what volume that might be indicating. Perhaps it is the oil needed for a change to include the filter.

This explains some of the confusion -- source is from an FL70 chassis...

[Native]

Two quarts for the HEUI pump and lines ... wow! Good to know.

[banman]

Today's little discoveries are a "danger high voltage" battery secured in the compartment above the rear emergency door -- I think it was to provide emergency backup-power to the strobe lights. Maybe I can repurpose it...

My front door is electrically operated, with a very large linear actuator. Hope I can find adjustment specs. I'll do trial and error if I must...

And... wait for it... INSULATION. Okay, not a big deal to most of you but I was beginning to think my bus didn't come with any insulation in the roof or walls but today I learned different while probing about.
I previously didn't think I had any cause there's a couple spots on the ceiling with louvers and looking into them I couldn't see any insulation...
It's a white colored fiber -- similar to fiberglass but I think it's different than residential fiberglass insulation. It's similar to the bats in my Saab.

So far it seems clean -- that could change when I get into the spots I know have leaked here and there -- and obviously Thomas didn't go to the bother & expense of installing it if it had no value so...?

Can anybody say how it compares to other insulation? At nearly 2" thick it's gota be good for something... So far it seems like the biggest issue with it is the quality of installation, ie; gaps and sections slumping. It makes sense to remove it all if you're making room for something better BUT, if low budget is also a priority than one should consider the existing insulation's value.

Perhaps I'll just add a layer of ¼" or ½" foam board to increase the R value and create a viable vapor barrier and thermal break from the ribs. The foam board would then get covered with bead-board. I don't want to loose ceiling height...
And remember, this will be a 'roving bar / camper' not a full time live-in.

[banman]

"the Thomas FS65 could be ordered with many heater options..


most common was a left front driver console that included 2 or 3 blowers abd a single heater core..

1- left-side defrost
2- driver heat
3 - ducted heat - whuch ran partially down the side of the bus with vents in it...



the rest of the duct that looks "small" is just a chase for the coolant hoses leading to the rear heater..



the rear heater was an underseat variety with a single core and usually 2 fans.. you can move it inside from the garage area or take it out altogether and loop the lines at the outlet of the driver heater core..



if you are insulating your bus and dont plan to have people riding in the way back during real cold weather you may very well not need that rear heater...


other heaters your bus may have..



right-side Entrace heater.. it will have 2 or 3 motors and a single heater core..(( this whole unit was optional.. if your bus was bought in a very warm climate you may not have the right side system at all..))



1. right WS defrost
2. stepwell heat
3(optional) - aisle-heat..


in my own busses which are just stock insulation .. I need all the heaters (including the rear)when its really cold outside.."
-Christopher


Thanks for that -- My bus has the Right side entrance heater. Separate fans/switches for lt & rt windshield defrost...

I'll have to dig deeper to see where/how this left hand drivers heater core is located. There's a "boiler valve" in the drivers foot well that I assumed was to cut off flow to the back heater. Maybe it cuts off both...?
Started removing the hose & wire chase to the rear heater. Revealed a little rust through damage at the wheel well but I was expecting that...
I'm pleased this is quality wire and 1" radiator hose. Both can be repurposed...
If I've got two heater cores up front, that should really be enough for any winter driving I wanna do. Easy to drop a curtain behind remaining passenger seats to keep the cabin warm.


And a gratuitous doggy pic -- defective murder dog making use of one of the seat-back cushions!

[banman]

Originally Posted by nords

If you want some ideas on how to combine a rear hauling area with a social area, along with an outrageous top deck, check out my friend's on-going conversion. He has some very serious building skills. https://www.instagram.com/gordofromearth/

I just caught up with this link! Your friend 'Gordo' has mad skilz!
And what's not to like about another black bus...

Thanx!

[Native]

Originally Posted by banman

I'll have to dig deeper to see where/how this left hand drivers heater core is located. There's a "boiler valve" in the drivers foot well that I assumed was to cut off flow to the back heater. Maybe it cuts off both...?

On ours, that "boiler" valve cut off both.

[banman]

Originally Posted by Native

On ours, that "boiler" valve cut off both.

That would make sense; cut off the water flow to all when the weather's warm.

Removing the rear heater loop should mean the other two heaters warm up that much faster...

[sepudo]

I just read ALL your post about your bus including the start up and photos...very interesting to see someone who picked up a FS65 recently as I just picked mine up last week. I'll be sure to reach out to you and others that have helped you as I also get ready for a fluids change and such. happy building!

[banman]

Originally Posted by sepudo

I just read ALL your post about your bus including the start up and photos...very interesting to see someone who picked up a FS65 recently as I just picked mine up last week. I'll be sure to reach out to you and others that have helped you as I also get ready for a fluids change and such. happy building!

Thanks. It's gonna be a slow process -- my project time is spread thin working on the house is a bigger priority...

But as I get the bus mechanically stable I like it more and more -- it's an easy truck to drive -- Getting around to some sound insulation for better driving comfort will come one day...

[banman]

The sky dried out and we finally moved all the seats out...



I think I will start from the top down and start addressing some of the leaks...
Both hatch covers need to be resealed but the rear hatch is much worse and even leaks a good bit through the handle! Not sure how I'll address that yet -- guessing there should be an O-ring seal in the handle... probably won't know till I get it apart...

All the hose chase and fwd passenger area heater duct are removed. I found the third heater core! Should be very easy to (short term) cut off and loop it with the existing worm clamps and connectors.



Pix didn't come out well enough to show it but the cushion/divider behind the driver is really crushed into the plywood... rotten wetness...
You can see the rust hole on the wall hidden by the heater duct -- I imagine a lot of hot air was lost out of that opening...
This will be the worst rust area -- this pic is barely the tip of the iceberg -- roof/window leaks from above and the area was also blasted from below from the driver side wheel. The sub-frame is all rotted away there to include the vertical 'stud' to the chair-rail. Proper fix would involve removing the driver seat platform... Maybe next spring... Hard to say...

There is also some rust through around the rear wheel well on the driver side. I was kinda hoping to leave the rubber mat and plywood in place from the front of the wheel wells back for the garage. May have to rethink this...

I also have to acknowledge now my surprise that the area of all three heater cores added up is probably nearly half the size of the radiator -- that is a substantial amount of eng cooling potential...
Hopefully I don't make too big a mess when I extract the rear heater tomorrow -- it'll be great to have it out of the way...

[Native]

Bend the heater hose near the heater and clamp it with vice-grips or a hose clamp. Then remove the heater (in a bucket if you can or at least with lots of towels) from the hoses. Open the vise-grips/clamps after you bring the hoses outside the front door and empty them into a 5-gallon bucket. Easy-peasy and not much mess.

[cadillackid]

you may also have a couple heater valves under the hood... close those if you do.. that will help you keep from losing the coolant out of your radiator and engine when you slice open the heater hoses..



these busses have pretty big heaters.. if you dont plan to have anyone riding in the back of the bus you wont need those.. the front oneswill warm you nicely, you will want to keep all of your front heaters.. being a northern bus its a good idea to take them apart and clean them up / restore them as needed. make sure theres no leaks in the coils or the front hoses..



the "boiler valve" usually shuts all the heaters down.. its a way for the driver to sort of control the amount of heat ...



that one inch hose comes in handy.. I pull those hoses when I hit junkyards.. its expensive to buyt it brand new.. and that in the chaseway is usually in good shape since it didnt see harsh conditions and no UV..



insulation... tale of my 3 busses..


1. my DEV bus - typical yellow factory insulation.. seems a tad flat.. that ceiling gets HOT in the spring / summer sun!..


2. my Redbyrd - Factory A/C bus.. has nice fluffly yellow insulation ... ceiling just gets warm in the hot summer sun...



3. My Superior - im not sure theres any insulation.. that ceiling gets HOT QUICK in the summer sun...


of course here in winter you cant really Sun-test any ceiling since our sun angle is next to nill...



whether you pull the ceiling or not has a lot to do with what you do with your bus.. full-timing or loing-term camping in cold or Hot climates, id likelty want to pull the ceiling, insulate much better and make a new ceiling..



weekend warrior.. likely i wouldnt..

[banman]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

you may also have a couple heater valves under the hood... close those if you do.. that will help you keep from losing the coolant out of your radiator and engine when you slice open the heater hoses..

these busses have pretty big heaters.. if you dont plan to have anyone riding in the back of the bus you wont need those.. the front oneswill warm you nicely, you will want to keep all of your front heaters.. being a northern bus its a good idea to take them apart and clean them up / restore them as needed. make sure theres no leaks in the coils or the front hoses..

the "boiler valve" usually shuts all the heaters down.. its a way for the driver to sort of control the amount of heat ...


that one inch hose comes in handy.. I pull those hoses when I hit junkyards.. its expensive to buyt it brand new.. and that in the chaseway is usually in good shape since it didnt see harsh conditions and no UV..

SNIP...

Yup, There's one "ball valve" on a line to the heater by the stairwell.
I'm surprised the fwd passenger heater core is behind the driver.
The 1" line to the back is the blue GoodYear HiMiler hose. Keeping every inch of it -- it's a silicone lifetime hose, not rubber. Makes sense -- so much labor to fix a leak... Of course -- those damn professionals -- where the hose goes under the driver pedestal, it wasn't protected so the metal edge has been cutting into it for the last 15 years... Kinda glad I'm about to cut if off!!!

So it sounds like my 2" white batting insulation might not be bad stuff...
The bus came from R.I. and if they ordered the 3rd heater it would stand to reason they'd order useful insulation...
When it comes to drinking beer, whiskey, or coffee (and Brewdog's doing another colab with a local roaster for a coffee-stout!) in the bar on the bus I suspect it will be a "fair weather affair..."
But I'd still like to keep the hottest summer sun out, and extend the comfort of insect free fall...
Time will tell...

I'm sure I'll get to pulling every ceiling panel just so I can map out all the leaks...
Make sure there's no creeping crud -- and always hoping to find stolen treasure...

I HAVE to see how solid (or not! ) things are up top if I'm gonna dream about a roof-deck...

[banman]

Got the rear heater core and hoses out. Only lost a quart... Lots of clamps and I took the core out of the bus before disconnecting the hoses...
Cut a ten inch piece to bypass the missing core -- not my prettiest work but it'll do for now...


I'm bothered by the color of the coolant -- pic doesn't do it justice -- it's not a rusty orange red but very like a tranny fluid red. I know what you're thinking but there's no oil film on the coolant.
I need to know what flavor of coolant this red stuff is before I can add more.



And it's good to inspect under all those covers -- turns out the weight of the driver side heater core bouncing along the last 18yrs has cracked/sheared the metal plate it sits on leaving it hanging by the hoses on one end...

[Native]

That looks like the color that is supposed to be in there. Freightliner spec'd the standard diesel collant with SCA's for our buses. I changed ours out for extended life coolant which Freightliner calls Detroit Extended Life Plus OAT (organic acid technology) coolant. CAT makes some, or the stuff Freightliner sells works well too. I chose the latter.

[banman]

Originally Posted by Native

That looks like the color that is supposed to be in there. Freightliner spec'd the standard diesel collant with SCA's for our buses. I changed ours out for extended life coolant which Freightliner calls Detroit Extended Life Plus OAT (organic acid technology) coolant. CAT makes some, or the stuff Freightliner sells works well too. I chose the latter.

Awesome! Finally opened something up that wasn't a can of worms...

Here's a good post on the topic for us:
Coolant Info From Freightliner - iRV2 Forums

And now that I've got all the heater cores exposed I see their area is actually bigger than the eng. radiator -- wow. That would be a lot of supplemental eng cooling if you were running hot for some reason...

[sepudo]

On the topic of the rear heater and canceling the lines... Would I be able to connect some pex tubing to the tubing right behind the driver seat and run pex under my floor to have radient heat when I turn on the 'rear heat'?

If so I'd like to snake some pex tubing or similar from front to back between 2 inch rigid foam panels then my osb board then vinyl flooring...

Thoughts?

[banman]

Originally Posted by sepudo

On the topic of the rear heater and canceling the lines... Would I be able to connect some pex tubing to the tubing right behind the driver seat and run pex under my floor to have radient heat when I turn on the 'rear heat'?

If so I'd like to snake some pex tubing or similar from front to back between 2 inch rigid foam panels then my osb board then vinyl flooring...

Thoughts?

You probably could.
Eng. coolant pressure is low -- rarely over 15psi and that's just to increase the boiling point of the coolant.

I'm not familiar with what kind of flow rate you'd need for radiant heating.

I personally never want to have a "house system" that could compromise my truck system. In this case a floor heater problem deadlining the bus till it's fixed. Consider ways to isolate the systems if you do it...

[cadillackid]

im not sure id want my floor loops to be 175-180 degrees plus that engine coolant gets up to. .. that seems like some hot feet..



I never built a floor heating system to run over 125.. and that was just to Pre-Heat the floors in the building.. then it would idle under 100..



-Christopher