The Wandering Jackalopes

[Native]

We are fortunate ... we have a tall-roof model. Adding an inch to the floor was a no-brainer and also a no beaner.


[We also applied the flooring right after painting with the beads.]

[CoffeeGuy]

Now that the floor has been painted with several coats of primer, we wanted to get some idea of what our layout would look like. A 3D cad drawing can only tell you so much, and doesn't do justice to the experience of measuring things out in 1:1 scale and walking through it.

We're still playing with the floor plan, but with the painter's tape, we're close enough for me to start working on the details of plumbing and power distribution. It looks like we'll have 92 gallons of fresh water, 46 gallons of grey water storage in the middle of our bus behind the gas tank, a 60 x 24 x 24" basement storage compartment, all on the passenger side, and then a 72" x 24" x 24" basement storage compartment, 3,500 watt dual fuel inverter generator on a slide-out drawer, and another slide-out drawer with four 20# propane tanks. Two will be hooked up at a time, and 2 to rotate out. The generator, water heater, stove, and Dickinson P9000 propane heater will run off the propane. We're also including a mini-split for the master bedroom (can you really say "master bedroom" on a school bus?) and the condenser is going to share some space in the back where the engine sits.

This last bit is probably the most controversial modification that I plan to make. I realize that the big mesh door on the rear side of the bus was put there for a reason, but I think that adding a fairly small condenser to the mix is not going to cause major issues given all of the other places for air to get drawn in or pushed out. It looks like I need to move a big ole' canister about 6 inches to the left to make this work, but again, not a huge issue.

We also finally power washed the underside of the bus! Okay, I didn't do it, EJ did, and it's been documented for posterity. While that was going on, I started the task of eliminating wires from the wire loom, starting with the rear red and amber signal lights, the rooftop strobe, and the various emergency signal features connected to anything that opens. A ton of wire came out of the bus, but I also saved several hundred feet of copper that I can re-use for our low voltage wiring. Eventually I plan to get everything out of the breaker box that doesn't need to be there. I have a good start already, and yes, the bus still starts!!!

[CoffeeGuy]

I've been removing unnecessary copper this week, by first taking out the red and amber flashers from the front and back, the strobe, and the emergency window and door units, then opening the wire looms and tracing the wires back to "circuit breaker central". I'm pulling everything that is not going to be needed, including any switches or lights, and the Doran monitor.

Once I have removed all of the unnecessary wires, I have a few changes I will make so that the wiper switch and marker lights are enabled. Right now, they're not because I pulled the circuit breaker that controls all of the safety stuff, and the wipers and markets just happen to be on that breaker as well. It'll be easy to run them to my own switches, as I'm planning on redesigning most of the dashboard area.

We also decided to pull the Webasto heaters and defroster, so that we can eliminate the brass and rubber coolant run that goes from the rear engine to the front of the bus. We'll replace it with a diesel heater that sips from the 100 gallon fuel tank. We're in no particular hurry to drive anywhere, so I'm okay with a more extensive remodel.

My current obsession is trying to figure out what goes on the roof and in the basement. Fun stuff!

[CoffeeGuy]

Wow! We started this journey in August, 2020 and the time is flying by! This week we did more planning and prepping, plus I spent more time sorting out our engine's intermittent start. Now that I have the right diagnostic tools, it's much easier to narrow down the possible options.

We've begun prepping the outside for a first coat of paint. We're going to start by painting everything white, and then adding colors on that layer. This gives us time to work everything out and if we need to transport the bus somewhere, it won't be a big yellow brick rolling down the road.

We've taken out the school bus lights in front and rear, and we're working on fiberglassing those areas smooth, as well as removing some dents that we inherited. Dent removal in the back is being accomplished by using a stud welder and slide hammer. The larger dents in the front are much deeper and more easily accessed so we're pounding those out with a pneumatic hammer and then smoothing over with body filler. We're also prepping the rest of the body, removing the remnants of adhesive from when we power washed off the reflector tape.

After a bunch of work, we managed to get in a little time on the water. It's a fine reward for us, spending time checking out the herons and beavers that share their home with us.

[CoffeeGuy]

One of the issues that has held up our floor plan decisions has been the part about not knowing where fresh water and grey water tanks will go, which then also impacts where we put generator, propane and fuel tanks, basement storage, and possibly a mini-split. A stumbling block has been plumbing drains because our layout ideas involved having the kitchen sink and shower on one side of the bus, and the composting toilet on the other side, but what about a hand wash sink? Ideally this would go in the same space as the toilet, and also be a place to shave, brush teeth, and all that the other stuff that elevate us slightly above the bears and gorillas.

The solution works out very well, I think! We're mounting 3 tanks, all 46 gallons, in the middle of the bus, in the space between the fuel tank and the drive train. (It's one benefit of a rear engine bus, having that middle space relatively clear). The three tanks are 18" wide, and sitting side by side, the'll occupy around 55" (allowing for tolerance) and 14" deep, so they will sit no lower than the 100 gallon fuel tank. They will also be transversely mounted so that they will span the two main beams that run the length of the bus, and allow us to run 2 drain pipes for the grey water, one from the left side of the bus where the shower and hand wash sink are, and the other from the right side, where the kitchen sink is located. With the tanks 10" lower than the bottom of the floor, we'll be able to maintain a good slope for the drain pipes. fresh water pipes, of course, will be pump-driven, so placement is not nearly as critical, but keeping them in the middle of the bus opens up both sides behind the skirt for other additions.

One of those additions will be a generator, and we've settled on the Westinghouse iGen4500 with remote start. Since it is compact and quiet, we'll be able to run it as needed to supplement our power. Hopefully we won't need it that often, but I can't see boondocking without one, nor do I want to travel in the southwest in mid-summer without a way to cool off.

Here's the layout we're nearly settled on:

[ol trunt]

Looks like a "doable" floor plan. The drawing makes it look like you will have to crawl over one another should someone need to get to the bathroom in the middle of the night? what are your seating plans for around the drop down table?

Before you commit to whatever floor plan you chose, lay out the entire plan on the floor of the bus in masking tape and play "lets pretend". This will give you a real life feel for exactly what you will eventually be living with.
Jack

[CoffeeGuy]

Originally Posted by ol trunt

Looks like a "doable" floor plan. The drawing makes it look like you will have to crawl over one another should someone need to get to the bathroom in the middle of the night? what are your seating plans for around the drop down table?

Before you commit to whatever floor plan you chose, lay out the entire plan on the floor of the bus in masking tape and play "lets pretend". This will give you a real life feel for exactly what you will eventually be living with.
Jack

Thank you for your comments!

Yes, my wife will be crawling over me if she needs to get up in the middle of the night. That's a compromise we came up with to conserve space in our 30'. Other things not obvious is that the bed is high in the air with the bottom of the mattress at the height of the rear deck (which is the engine compartment). We're going to have 2 large pull-out drawers that will form a staircase to get in and out of bed. I need that due to some arthritis in my knees.

The seating plans around the table are flexible, I have plans for another fold-out section of the table that I am not showing here. The clear area between the table and the bathroom is one place for a seat, and then we can also dine bar-style along the table's length. If I am able to make the driver's seat spin 180°, I will also have a table extension there so that both ends can be used as work desks or the center can be one large worth desk.

The grid is 3" per small square, 1' per large square. We're taping it out today because EJ needs to see things in the live space whereas I'm fine visualizing off a scale drawing. Everything is drawn to scale. I still need to create elevation drawings for the interior.

I did my initial concept drawings in Sketch3D, but found working with a 3D drawing program to be too cumbersome at the left end of the learning curve. This way is old school, but it works! I've done a coffee roastery, a recording studio, and a guest cottage with the drafting technique I learned over 40 years ago as a kid in college.

[CoffeeGuy]

I've been pondering if it would be possible to build a rack for solar panels that would allow lifting and tilting with linear actuators. I know they can be pretty tough workers, I have a bucket loader on my garden tractor that lifts and dumps a good 250lbs off 12v without breaking a sweat.

the advantage would be more energy capture with fewer panels. The cost of such a system would likely be around the cost of additional panels, but it might also do things like lift panels out of shade when being blocked other things on the roof.

This is just a mental engineering exercise right now, I'm not sure if it's worth actually building. The concept is illustrated below: 2 linear actuators at 180° from each other, drive arms that lift the panels. Either side could be lifted to angle the panel up to 45° or both could be used to lift the panel straight up a given distance. The amount of tilt and lift is, of course, dependent upon the actual geometry of the system.

Any thoughts?

[cadillackid]

I love the idea but part of it would be how soloid are they went flat down.. ie driving the bus 60 into a 20 MPH headwind is 80 MPH winds buffet-ing the solar panels.. will those actuators remain fully retracted or will they creep?

[ol trunt]

That's the way I'd do it. I am a fan of low voltage linear actuators though I've found it necessary to beef up the base against thrust with 1/8" plate on the bottom of my half plastic half cast aluminum actuators that raise the pop top on my bus. The plate fits between the Al and the plastic but spans the entire base over to where the electric feed enters. I suppose a higher quality actuator would have been built that way but given the space I had to work with I was stuck with what I have.
Jack

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[CoffeeGuy]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

I love the idea but part of it would be how soloid are they went flat down.. ie driving the bus 60 into a 20 MPH headwind is 80 MPH winds buffet-ing the solar panels.. will those actuators remain fully retracted or will they creep?

I used Thomson Linear Actuators for the projects I have done in the past. They are rock solid. No creep at all, and very powerful. They can also sit outside in the elements year after year and still work, problem free. I have one on my garden tractor that is more than 12 years old, has always been in the elements, year round.

[CoffeeGuy]

Originally Posted by CoffeeGuy

I used Thomson Linear Actuators for the projects I have done in the past. They are rock solid. No creep at all, and very powerful. They can also sit outside in the elements year after year and still work, problem free. I have one on my garden tractor that is more than 12 years old, has always been in the elements, year round.

I should add that this particular actuator lifts a bucket loader with a tooth bar and just recently moved about 15 tons of limestone gravel with it. They're great little devices, hard workers! Wind would be no competition for the mighty Thomson.

[CoffeeGuy]

Today we started work on our water tanks. We have 3 tanks, 46 gallons each, and 2 will be used for fresh water with the third dedicated to grey water. All together, if all tanks are full, the weight will be a little over 1,100 lbs.

We're mounting the tanks against the frame rails behind the fuel tank, using Unistrut. At the moment, it's a work in progress, as I figure out the most secure mounting method while incorporating sufficient angle to allow gravity-fed water flow (for both fresh and grey water). To fix my mounting points, I cut some Unistrut to 60" lengths and drilling holes for 1/2" threaded rod through the bottom of the frame rails. The piece shown is not weight bearing, but being used for spacing.

Now that we have verified that the tanks will fit as planned, we can see what sort of clearance we have for our drainage feeding the grey water tank, and how much space we have available along the sides for storage and other features.

Another interesting idea that recently occurred to me is that we intend to add a Dickinson Newport Diesel Heater to the cabin for warmth in the colder nights. The Newport can be purchased with a water heating coil and though we won't need it for showers or washing dishes, we can create a "radiant heat base" underneath our water tanks using PEX pipe to keep the water from freezing when we're hitting a cold spell. This seems like a better idea than a heat blanket that uses electricity, though we might consider having one of those as well.

What are your experiences? How do you keep water from freezing?

[ol trunt]

While I don't have the data right at hand, I did a bunch of trial runs with 12 volt heat tape and decided it was the best bang for the energy buck. My heat tape is thermostatically controlled with sensors in several locations. I have my thermostat set to heat at 36 degrees F and shut off at 38 degrees F. I went with no heat for a few years and woke up one morning to fresh water temps hovering at 32.5 degrees F and decided I ought to do something. I'd already had the over temp problem with hot water above 140 degrees F and leaking pipes so decided to be proactive on the freeze thing. My fresh and grey tanks are inside the bus but the black tank is below. We don't heat at night because wifey is afraid of using the propane heater while we are asleep and we find that the heat we generate is enough to maintain the inside of our bus at ten degrees above the outside air--at least down to freezing.
Jack

[CoffeeGuy]

Originally Posted by ol trunt

While I don't have the data right at hand, I did a bunch of trial runs with 12 volt heat tape and decided it was the best bang for the energy buck. My heat tape is thermostatically controlled with sensors in several locations. I have my thermostat set to heat at 36 degrees F and shut off at 38 degrees F. I went with no heat for a few years and woke up one morning to fresh water temps hovering at 32.5 degrees F and decided I ought to do something. I'd already had the over temp problem with hot water above 140 degrees F and leaking pipes so decided to be proactive on the freeze thing. My fresh and grey tanks are inside the bus but the black tank is below. We don't heat at night because wifey is afraid of using the propane heater while we are asleep and we find that the heat we generate is enough to maintain the inside of our bus at ten degrees above the outside air--at least down to freezing.
Jack

Jack, I was originally going to go with a 120v heating mat underneath the tanks, but was concerned about the energy consumption. I did not realize there was a 12vDC version that could get the job done!

The water heater coil itself is a little over $100, and then the pex plumbing adds a little to the cost, but after that, it's practically zero cost, except running a 12v pump. Electric might be a great option for when we're not in the bus, but it's parked overnight somewhere. I will look into this. Thank you!

We don't have plans to spend much time in winter weather (I lived in upstate NY and have seen my share of blizzards and 2 story snow drifts), but it can get cold anywhere in the USA as some of the freaky arctic blasts these last few years have shown.

[CoffeeGuy]

Working on the bus this past week has been an adventure! We removed the original emergency hatches from the roof and covered the holes with steel, adhered with butyl tape and screws. Then we power washed the roof, scrubbed it with TSP, dried, taped it off, and finally coated it with Henry's Tropi-Cool.

The decision to go with a silicone roof coating was difficult, but it came down to the fact that we had replaced the hatches and even though we sealed everything and even added a layer of RV roof repair tape over the screws and edges, A singular membrane to hold it all together seemed like a good idea. In time, we'll see if we are happy with the results!

[CoffeeGuy]

We are getting closer to completing purchase of all of the big pieces needed for the bus. Some people might think it's silly to buy things that may not be installed for another year into the build, but I look at the whole bus as an integrated system. Buying components that will be installed is committing to the plan. I know how much space I need for the things we need so I can determine that the placement will work (drainage from shower and sinks is a big one, making sure there's a workable path for all plumbing) and finally how much space is left for more whimsical additions.

So far, we have the following:

Dickinson Newport Diesel Heater
Chinese Diesel Heater (for windshield defrost and front of bus heat)
Furrion 3-burner stove with oven
24" x 32" shower pan
Girard tankless water heater
Coleman Mach 3 13,500btu air conditioner
3x 46 gallon water tanks (2 for fresh, 1 for grey)
GroWatt 24v 3,000w/80amp inverter/charge controller
6 LiFePo batteries 137aH each.
4 315w solar panels
2 24" x 24" x 60" undercarriage storage bays
3 24" x 24" x 30" undercarriage storage bays
Westinghouse iGen 4500 inverter generator
23" stainless steel sink
Various plumbing fittings

Next weekend I hope to get the unistrut rails mounted on the roof, some topside features will be mounted to those rails, including deck and solar panel array. After that, I plan to focus on the basement, getting the plumbing squared away. Somewhere in the middle of all of this, we're going to insulate, spray for ceiling and walls, rigid board for the floor, possibly more insulation on the underside, between the ribs of the floor.

With these steps done, we can start framing the inside, and nailing down (pardon the pun) our interior layout. We're a few months into this project already and a good 10k poorer, but it'll all be worth it at the end!

[Bus'n it]

I think you are smart to get what you need for your bus sooner than later. We are doing the same thing. I am more concerned that with the spike of Covid again, production of products will stop and we will be on another waiting game. Currently working on window order. Cabinets will be next. I have a guy that builds them from scratch.

[musigenesis]

I've already bought or fabricated almost everything that's going into my bus, and it's all taking up space in my garage and workshop. My task priority is just whatever job will move the maximum weight of stuff into the bus.

[Native]

Since we are still in moving mode, only part of the bus can be outfitted. However, we still keep collecting stuff. Half of the load for the next trip is bus/RV parts ... annd there are still more in the garage.