Tourtech Bus - 1997 International 3800

[TourTech]

Hey Everyone,

I'm new here, but I've been lurking for a little bit now.

A few months back I bought a 1997 International D3800 72 Passenger School Bus. The bus was purchased from a school board which was the second owner, and it has a new (less than a year old) tranny, and new brakes springs and shocks. The body has some rust around the rub rails and the battery box door, but overall it's not in bad shape at all.

My plans for the bus is to make it into a Tour Bus, not the kind for tourists, but the type that entertainers use when travelling on the road. I work in that field, and I have allways wanted to have my own traveling accoms so I've finally gotten around to putting it together. My plans are to make something that more resembles a limo bus than a camper, with lots of seating that converts into sleeping quarters. The bus will be dry, but it will contain things like a big screen TV, surround sound system, computers, WiFi,, cell phone extenders and all kinds of that electronic goop to make traveling more enjoyable. Ideally, I would like to be able to take on passengers, but I am also designing it for my family's personal use as well. The back three window sections will be sectioned off, and used to haul gear in, so the passenger space will be somewhat limited by this, but the bus will be replacing a 14' cube van and this needs to be done to keep the project viable.

There are a few things that I need to figure out, and I will put them in different posts within this thread. I will post links to Youtube Videos as well, as I've allready started making a log, allthough I haven't even gotten the seats out of my bus yet. Since winter is just around the corner here in Southern Ontario, Canada, I'm not sure that progress will be very intense over the next 4-5 months so gathering parts and info is what I figured is my short term game plan.

Thanks for the site, I've been reading all kinds of threads here and find it extreamly informative.

[bansil]

You need refrideration ...either coolers or a fridge...that makes a big difference at the end off a day.
Good luck,welcome aboard and....oh...post pics

[TourTech]

There will be pics, but ATM it's still just a school bus.

The first little project I need to tackle is opening the front door of the bus. In order to do this, I have purchased a surplus power door lock actuator, and I am going to attach that to to drivers door opener thingy. Hopefully, it will have enough force to lift the metal plate so that the doors spring open, and the whole thing will be controlled by a simple surplus ignition switch (with a key of course). Has anyone tried this, or is there a simpler solution to locking the bus up?

I don't want to do a simple padlock on the doors because I want it to look clean and don't want some joker locking me inside the bus.....

[travelinwithus]

Welcome, looking forward to seeing your project come together.

[Tango]

Welcome to Skoolie! Lookin forward to some pix of your build. Just take your time, do some homework (most of which can be done here) and have fun.

[TourTech]

Thanks for the welcomes everyone,

Another kind of ambitious idea I have for my bus is improving the aerodynamics of it. This might be a little foolish, as I am just going to do it without any sort of before and after testing, so I really won't know how much the efforts actually pay off.

May plans are the following:

• -Section the front bumper horizontally to make it larger to block air from going under the bus.
  -Add a half Kammback to the roof on the rear of the bus. This part I will make removable, because it has the potential to make things worse if I don't get it right.
  -Lower the sides of the Bus even with the front door
  -Add basement storage and flatten out the underbelly as much as possible
  - Add a bubble to the front top of the bus
  - Add some sort of fairing/deflector to reduce the drag created by the windshield
  - Add covers to the rear wheel wells
  - Add smooth caps to the front wheels

Has anyone else tried doing anything about the highway fuel consumption, and if so what seemed to work the best?

[skoolz out]

Really cool idea. I've played keyboards with a number of local bands and thought of building a similar bus many times. What always discouraged me was the fact that I would end up paying for everything and doing all the work. Also there were very few out of town gigs where a bus would have been useful.

FWIW I'll share a few ideas I had. In the very back, where the last two rows of seats were, I had planned to build some racks on either side of the aisle where guitars, keyboards, and maybe a few other expensive pieces of gear could be strapped down. In that same area, with very minimal partitions and a curtain for a door would be a restroom of sorts that was just a porta-potty on the floor. That would be for emergency use only, but having a potty on board is a requirement for getting the bus titled as a motorhome. Likewise there was going to be a very tiny galley somewhere on board.

I thought that building stacked tour bus bunks on either side of the aisle near the back would be cool, but for all of my local gigs I questioned how much use they would really get. The rest of the interior would be as you planned, limo/party bus style, and no serious modifications.

I'm glad to see that someone is able to live this dream. Post some pics when you get 'em.

Christopher

[GreyEagle]

The MPG improvements on a diesel engine would be only minimal by changing the shape on the load. It's still going to weight x amount of lb's no matter what you do to your bus. I cannot see improvements big enough to pay for the cost of the mods unless you travel a lot. A whole lot....... Kinda like a generator...... It takes x amount of fuel to just run the engine at x number of rpm's and it's going to cost that before any mods are made.... and after.
The biggest improvements can come from lowering your Gross Vehicle Weight and lowering your RPM's at which you move said load.....
Just food for thought

[TourTech]

Originally Posted by skoolz out

Really cool idea. I've played keyboards with a number of local bands and thought of building a similar bus many times. What always discouraged me was the fact that I would end up paying for everything and doing all the work. Also there were very few out of town gigs where a bus would have been useful.

FWIW I'll share a few ideas I had. In the very back, where the last two rows of seats were, I had planned to build some racks on either side of the aisle where guitars, keyboards, and maybe a few other expensive pieces of gear could be strapped down. In that same area, with very minimal partitions and a curtain for a door would be a restroom of sorts that was just a porta-potty on the floor. That would be for emergency use only, but having a potty on board is a requirement for getting the bus titled as a motorhome. Likewise there was going to be a very tiny galley somewhere on board.

I thought that building stacked tour bus bunks on either side of the aisle near the back would be cool, but for all of my local gigs I questioned how much use they would really get. The rest of the interior would be as you planned, limo/party bus style, and no serious modifications.

I'm glad to see that someone is able to live this dream. Post some pics when you get 'em.

Christopher

Hey Christopher,

I'm an Audio Tech, and myself and a few of my friends that also work in the same industry tour quite a bit. I also work for a few SoundCos that have connections to more work for a project like this, so it is basically a way to get more touring work than anything, kind of an added bonus sort of thing. I'm an AZ Driver as well, getting that was also a way into getting more touring work.

The gear hold in the back is for backline gear and maybe a small PA/Monitor rig, as most places I am walking into an environment where production (and sometimes back line) is provided. However, things being as they are, sometimes what is provided doesn't meet what is specified, so it's good to have everything I might need on hand, just in case. I'm not too big on the potty idea, I figured we would just do what we currently do now which is stop at a rest stop, or on the side of the road when someone has to go. I'm not sure that I will register the bus as an RV as it will be used for business use, so I will likely need a CVOR in any case.

I don't think the ceiling height is high enough for bunks, so I'm going with the giant sofas everywhere approach. I will have a small kitchen type counter, with a fridge, microwave, bottled water and coffee machine, it will be extreamly small though.

Basically, I'm looking to travel with a small PA, backline and 12-14 people. If I can do that it will cover 95% of the shows we do. We currently rent a cube van and three mini vans to move everyone, so I figure the bus should pay for itself in a year or two.

I'll post some pics as things progress, so far it's just been peeling stickers and measuring stuff.

[TourTech]

Originally Posted by GreyEagle

The MPG improvements on a diesel engine would be only minimal by changing the shape on the load. It's still going to weight x amount of lb's no matter what you do to your bus. I cannot see improvements big enough to pay for the cost of the mods unless you travel a lot. A whole lot....... Kinda like a generator...... It takes x amount of fuel to just run the engine at x number of rpm's and it's going to cost that before any mods are made.... and after.
The biggest improvements can come from lowering your Gross Vehicle Weight and lowering your RPM's at which you move said load.....
Just food for thought

Hey Grey,

I was going on the assumption that resistance is the same as a static load, so reducing the wind resistance increases fuel economy when you are rolling down the road. I'm also an AZ Driver, and all of the newer trucks have side skirts on the trailers and aero kits on the cabs including a fairing for the trailer, so I figure there has to be some sort of benifit to making the bus a little less brick-like.

Like I said, I won't have any idea if the changes I make are benificial or not becuase I won't really have any sort of baseline to compare with, other than other people's busses maybe, but as you mentioned, mine could be heavier or lighter than theirs which could attribute to a difference in fuel economy in itself.

At any rate, this is the basic config, without the kammback , bubble or fairing, so this is the first stage that I am shooting for. The side skirts make sense just because I'll be adding the basement storage compartments, so to get the bus to this point, there really isn't too much time, money or effort waisted.

[GreyEagle]

I like the look of the bus..... Kinda like fender skirts but running the length of the bus ..
Every little thing to reduce wind resistance will improve your mileage some what. The trucks you see on the road are million mile trucks. they drive for a living and the company that owns the trucks/trailers are in it for the money. Whatever pennies they can save per truck X # trks = dollars. I am not trying to tell you not to do it.
What I am saying is It will not make that much of a difference in the MPG to pay for the cost of the mods unless you plan to stay on the road. Most skoolie conversions end up with less than 25,000 miles after being converted into a housecar, RV, or motorhome. The under neat storage is a big plus on any conversion. Gives you lots more room to put lots more stuff/weight that reduces your overall MPG.

Post pics, I love a good mod...

[ol trunt]

Your rendering looks cool and that's enough of a reason to go for it! I'm one of those old sticks in the mud who want before and after "scientific proof" etc. but I'll happily hear what your feelings are about the results of your build-out--never mind the science, the fact that you recognize that it isn't scientific is fine with me, not that it matters what I think etc. etc. Since you are learning as you go more power to you and keep the pics flowing! Jack

[sdwarf36]

I like the looks of it, but i see a problem. If you make the side skirts, picture the low point between the fornt + back wheels if you have to drive over any uneven terrain. Think coming out of parking lot that you have to go up an incline to get onto the road-now picture if that skirt would clear getting up onto level ground.
As far as aero goes-stand in front of your bus + look at it. Its as square (and large) as a house. Not much you are going to be able to do with that much frontal area.

[TourTech]

Originally Posted by ol trunt

Your rendering looks cool and that's enough of a reason to go for it! I'm one of those old sticks in the mud who want before and after "scientific proof" etc. but I'll happily hear what your feelings are about the results of your build-out--never mind the science, the fact that you recognize that it isn't scientific is fine with me, not that it matters what I think etc. etc. Since you are learning as you go more power to you and keep the pics flowing! Jack

Thanks Jack,

Yeah with Winter closing in I still have a few months to change it all up as there are quite a few people here with experience in this sort of things that bring up points. If I thought I had the time, I'd do the interior first and then maybe I could get a baseline and then see if the aero mods were worth the effort. If it looks distinctive and it doesn't have a negative effect on the fuel consumption, I'll be OK with that too.

[TourTech]

Originally Posted by sdwarf36

I like the looks of it, but i see a problem. If you make the side skirts, picture the low point between the fornt + back wheels if you have to drive over any uneven terrain. Think coming out of parking lot that you have to go up an incline to get onto the road-now picture if that skirt would clear getting up onto level ground.
As far as aero goes-stand in front of your bus + look at it. Its as square (and large) as a house. Not much you are going to be able to do with that much frontal area.

That's a good point, getting high centered I believe is what you mean? I guess I will have to figure out somehow what the safest height is that I can make the basement without that becoming an issue, I did think about getting a tow, so I angled the back up at least.... Maybe I'll line some inline skating wheels along the bottom of the basement (kidding of course).

Also the rendering is kind of rough, there needs to be storage doors as well as a door for the wheel well because I will need to do daily PTIs and that sort of thing.

Thanks for the input!

[Tango]

Very cool looking design and the skirting does indeed make quite a difference on tractor/trailer rigs. That said, I do have to echo the high centering concern. With that much distance between the wheels even a few inches difference in the ground level is definitely going to cause issues. Can't imagine it making it over even a minimal rise (like your average railroad track) as it appears in the drawing. If it is to scale, you can easily calculate how much rise/angle it will handle. Might want to check those numbers before getting too far into restructuring.

[GreyEagle]

S L E E K & S E X Y
comes to mine when I look at the sketch......... sweet but watch the humps as the others have said....

[TourTech]

After trying a few different ways to get the seats out of the bus, I finally broke down and bought me a reciprocating saw and some metal blades and got half of the seats out by myself in a little over an hour. Nothing like using the right tool for the job! I will still have to get the bolts out to remove all of thos pesky stumps, but at least it looks like progress.

I was going over some of the other members builds and was looking specifically at flooring and insulation. I'm like 5'11", maybe a little under, but adding floor height doesn't seem like such a great idea to me. Has anyone tried insulating the floor from the underside? I realize that the metal will conduct temperature from everything that is connected to it, so insulating from the bottom won't isolate the inner floor from this effect. My plans are to add basement storage compartments as well, so the insulation would be held in place and protected from water and road grime by that structure.

I also had a few questions about actual flooring, I see most people are using laminate flooring, which seems kind of heavy and from my experience, not all that durable when it comes to things like sandy shoes and water/moisture. I was thinking about gluing down some high traffic (maybe industrial) vinyl flooring, which I think is lighter that laminant. My biggest concern is that I might end up trapping moisture between the vinyl and the bus floor, and end up with a rusty, rotting mess after a while. I think that the current rubber floor would be doing the same thing, and that may be the reason most people take it out in the first place. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[opus]

I dont think insulating underneath is a practical option. Maybe if you got someone to spray it on, but that would be a mess and a lot of money to do. I'm 5-10" and put 1.5" foam and 5/8 plywood on and its fine.

[PDBreske]

Re: Insulation under the floors

My bookmobile came from the coach fabricator with spray-foam insulation under the flooring, between the floor I-beams. It's about three inches thick, with a heavy duty plastic cover on the bottom of the insulation to protect it from road debris and UV radiation. (I think most of the spray foams will deteriorate from sun exposure.) I suspect the sprayed insulation was added when the chassis was nearly bare—doing it after the underside has accumulated a lot of road dirt and grime could be problematic. Not impossible, but not easy. Plus, my floor is plywood, so the I-beams don't have a ready thermal bridge between the outside and inside air through the metal floor of a typical bus. If you insulate between the I-beams, the beams themselves will still suck a lot of heat out of the interior space across the entire width of the bus wherever they are in contact with the metal floor.