Vicaribus: 1998 Thomas Vista

[cadillackid]

crap wish i hadnt been driving all day and saw this..

the 444E has a mechanical fuel pump, the only way to re-start after running it dry can be 2-fold.. the simplest way is t ocrank for 5-7 seconds, wait 30 seconds for the starter to cool, crank 5-7, until it starts.. the pump is capable of repriming itself..

the secondary way is unscrew the lid on the fuel filter.. and fill the filter up with fuel..

it will start for at least a few seconds and may run long enough to re-fill itself.. worst case, refillt and do again..

the fuel filter is easy to get to.. its the round canister right on top of the engine..

sorry i wasnt there to save you a wasted roadside truck repair..

-Christopher

[BurlKing]

chris is spot on. had a work truck with the same engine and did this all the time, once we ran it to a fuel station on fumes, didnt die on us. but turned it off at the pump, then wouldnt turn back on. poured fuel in the filter on top of the engine bay, and it worked but shortly died later.
fuel pump had burned out but was around 300k miles.

[Shiftynick]

Originally Posted by brokedown

What all did you have in the bus when you got it weighed?

Just a couple couches and some random junk.

[Shiftynick]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

crap wish i hadnt been driving all day and saw this..

the 444E has a mechanical fuel pump, the only way to re-start after running it dry can be 2-fold.. the simplest way is t ocrank for 5-7 seconds, wait 30 seconds for the starter to cool, crank 5-7, until it starts.. the pump is capable of repriming itself..

the secondary way is unscrew the lid on the fuel filter.. and fill the filter up with fuel..

it will start for at least a few seconds and may run long enough to re-fill itself.. worst case, refillt and do again..

the fuel filter is easy to get to.. its the round canister right on top of the engine..

sorry i wasnt there to save you a wasted roadside truck repair..

-Christopher

No worries, I eventually spotted the bleeder valve by the fuel filter and learned a good lesson.

[Shiftynick]

So I finished my 2000 mile shakedown and made it to Denver, only other issue was a blown tire a couple hundred miles after the gas debacle. Luckily I pulled into a truck stop with a Goodyear center out back to "see what that vibration was".

My next issue is Cold Starting, tried to crank her up this morning here in Denver, where it is 35 degrees and the starter turns over but doesn't sound like its getting any fuel. There is a little plaque on the dash that mentions following cold weather procedures, but I don't know what those are, so that's what i'll be researching this morning.

It does have a 110 Volt plug on the front bumper, I'm guessing this is an engine block heater? Untested.

[Shiftynick]

Hmm, initial research says it should crank fine at 35 degrees Fahrenheit

[brokedown]

The plug on the front is a block heater. Not sure what temperature you are expected to use it at, though. I have only gotten to the low 40s but it started perfectly just waiting for the "wait" light to go out.

[Shiftynick]

Originally Posted by brokedown

The plug on the front is a block heater. Not sure what temperature you are expected to use it at, though. I have only gotten to the low 40s but it started perfectly just waiting for the "wait" light to go out.

I'm waiting for the light. At first it seems to turn over a few times then chokes out. Subsequent attempts I only hear the starter.

[cadillackid]

sounds like the glowplug relay might be bad.. they will start without the block heater.. i started mine right up when it was 3f outside withgout being plugged in... I gave it one cycle of weight to start.

if the oil pump is very weak in it, its possible that you ran the HPOP out of oil if it started and ran for a few seconds then died..

when you crank are you getting white smoke? if no smoke at all, sounds like a fueling issue.. the injectors operate by engine oil pressure..

also you have to wait for the light to go out each try..

just for kicks i started mine at 45 one morning without even using the glowplugs so id expect a hard start at 35 but still a start even if the glowplug relay is no good.

FYI - dont read the bus info in my little profile.. im talking about my T-444E bus so its not apples to oranges..

-Christopher

[Shiftynick]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

when you crank are you getting white smoke? if no smoke at all, sounds like a fueling issue.. the injectors operate by engine oil pressure..

also you have to wait for the light to go out each try..

I wait for the light each try. There is white smoke - I know this because I see it coming out of the apparently loose exhaust connection to the turbo.

[Shiftynick]

Originally Posted by Shiftynick

I wait for the light each try. There is white smoke - I know this because I see it coming out of the apparently loose exhaust connection to the turbo.

I checked the glow plug relay, it is getting 12V when the key is in the "ON" position.

Also, there is something beeping from the dash too. I noticed this on my first cold morning on the road as well, assuming it has something to do with the temp.

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by Shiftynick

I wait for the light each try. There is white smoke - I know this because I see it coming out of the apparently loose exhaust connection to the turbo.

Didn't notice it anywhere but how many miles are on this engine? My F350 has basically the same engine and with 320,000 miles on it, it's hard to start from dead cold at the temps you're working with. I plug it in at night during cold temps to crank up easily in the mornings.
If you're getting white smoke it means you're getting fuel (injectors are working both hydraulics (operated) and electrics (actuated)) but you lack just enough compression to autoignite and fire off easily. This doesn't mean necessarily you have to rebuild it right now but you do need to consider what you're working with. You also just might have issues with all your glow plugs operating as these systems (if like those on my Ford) have, in my opinion, a very bad design for transferring high amp power from the relay (starter solenoid on top the engine next to the filter) to the glow plugs through connectors in the valve cover gaskets. I've changed several sets of valve cover gaskets and the connections were fried and can cause misfires with the injectors (that are electrically actuated).
I know some will cringe at what I'm about to suggest but hang with me on this.
Loosen the clamp on the big rubber hose coming out of the air cleaner going to the turbo. With the switch on and AFTER the glowplug light has gone out, Press open the rubber hose and shoot a VERY SMALL shot of starting fluid in the intake. Far too many use way too much and cause damage to their engine. Try to crank it without resetting the key. Just go straight to start from the on position. We DO NOT want the glow plugs to be hot with starting fluid coming into the combustion chamber!! This should get you started if you have fuel to everything else.

Hope this helps!

[Shiftynick]

I hope you folks following this thread are into comedy, because there will surely be more to follow.

Turns out I left the fuel cap off at my last refuel. (Or rednecks got to me, but decided to leave the gas in the tank). I got it to crank now, however, I'm wondering about water in the fuel now. I get a constant stream of white smoke form the exhaust now, didn't notice it before.

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by Shiftynick

I hope you folks following this thread are into comedy, because there will surely be more to follow.

Turns out I left the fuel cap off at my last refuel. (Or rednecks got to me, but decided to leave the gas in the tank). I got it to crank now, however, I'm wondering about water in the fuel now. I get a constant stream of white smoke form the exhaust now, didn't notice it before.

Let it warm up good and see if you have any vapor coming out the exhaust.
Cold engine and cold temps can make a tired one puff a bit.
Doubtful you're burning water and still running.

[Shiftynick]

Originally Posted by sojourner

Let it warm up good and see if you have any vapor coming out the exhaust.
Cold engine and cold temps can make a tired one puff a bit.
Doubtful you're burning water and still running.

Seems good after running for a while, threw some fuel cleaner in there as a bonus.

[Shiftynick]

Originally Posted by Shiftynick

Seems good after running for a while, threw some fuel cleaner in there as a bonus.

Well, yesterday I had a hell of a time getting it to start again, but eventually got it. Today, no such luck. I'm not getting any pressure from the fuel bleeder by the fuel filter any more. I'm wondering if I clogged up the filter maybe/burned up the fuel pump?

Also, anybody have any idea what a constant beeping from somewhere behind the dash might mean on these Thomas busses? It only beeps when the key is in the "ON" position, goes off when it is running.

[brokedown]

Mine doesn't beep at all ever.

[Shiftynick]

Originally Posted by brokedown

Mine doesn't beep at all ever.

Turns out it was just a beeper that let's you know when the ignition is "ON" but not running. It only started working after some jiggling. I took it out.

[Shiftynick]

I added a writeup of the '2000 mile shakedown' to our website:



https://vicarib.us/blog/2000-mile-shakedown