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04-30-2016, 09:42 PM
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#41
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
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Hasn't there been talk about the 5000 series working from just the TPS information? Well, if you can afford one.
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04-30-2016, 09:54 PM
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#42
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 19,824
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin97396
Hasn't there been talk about the 5000 series working from just the TPS information? Well, if you can afford one.
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its the 5th gen... or if you have the right TCM.. the 1000 series is a pretty close swap for a 545... ive found several sites for parts / info
with the help from Tango pointing me in the right direction...
as for as people talking of not being allowed to control equipment they own. that pretty much is anything and everything these days... ie any new car you buy has propietary hardware / software , air conditioning systems , transmissions, everything has proprietary hardware / software.. I write such software for a living... I dont give it away for free...
-Christopher
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05-02-2016, 04:38 PM
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#43
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Maryland / Boulder
Posts: 347
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: CAT 3126b Rotella-Chugger
Rated Cap: 72
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From personal experience I would say stay away from CAT engined buses. Mine works fine now but not before doing like $3500 in PARTS of work to it, though that includes a $1200 radiator. Injectors, O rings, reman turbo cause of excessive shaft play (didn't want that to let go when running 30 PSI for 10 minutes straight climbing a 6% grade on the interstate). The electronic cats in particular, like mine, are a bit tricky to work on and parts are $$$. Bought a new oil feed like for the turbo cause the old one was super rusted out and that alone was like $70 for a 6" metal pipe.
The Allison MD3060 I have is awesome though. Double overdrive, and way more robust than I need, so it should last a minute or two.
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05-02-2016, 05:06 PM
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#44
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
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And Mercedes. Pretty but expensive, and some people are letting them go.
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11-16-2020, 04:54 PM
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#45
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New Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 8
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These are the good ones, right? Do these apply to the short buses too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycal
The list is shorter if you stick to what you should get.
Cummins 8.3
Cummins 5.9
International DT466
International DT408
International DT360
International 444E if not a huge bus
Transmission to get.
MT643
MD3060
Don't know about the newer Allison 2000 series Trans.
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11-18-2020, 09:39 PM
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#46
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New Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 8
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How about the short buses? What to get, please. Ford E350 any good?
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11-18-2020, 09:43 PM
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#47
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Traveling
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,302
Year: None
Coachwork: None
Chassis: None
Engine: None
Rated Cap: None
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shortbus2U
How about the short buses? What to get, please. Ford E350 any good?
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Avoid the 6.0 diesel, otherwise decent. 3V gassers have a tendency to blow spark plugs out of the threads. 2V gassers are better.
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11-19-2020, 11:59 PM
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#48
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 52
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What are everyone's thoughts on the late model DT466E? It's got EGR and a catalyst muffler. No DPF, no DEF. in IC-CE buses from 2004-2007. Would those buses be an electro-mechanical mess for other reasons? Would a GMC with a CAT 3126 or a Freightliner with a Cummins 5.9 be better (all other things being equal; Allison 2000 is available in each of those).
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11-20-2020, 08:09 AM
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#49
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 19,824
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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me myself personally habve no isseues with it.. yes its more complex than the pre-04 nd the general thought is if you can easily find a pre 04 its going to be simplet and less complex.. however the 04-early 07 (07 mid year started the MaxxForce DT).. are still good engines..
like any engine its care and maintenance are paramount.. the EGR cooler and oil Cooler are the 2 achille's heals as well as coolant maintenance.. if you can inspect said bus in person and it has known incorect coolant (green or cummins blue or ford gold) then things become cloudier as these engines had some known defects in the timing covers which poor coolant maintenance could result in cavitation.. ive seen these engines go for 300k easily with proper maintenance (as also Ive seen the Maxxforce DT go that long as well (07.5 - 2009)..
replacing the EGR cooler and oil cooler on the 04-07 isnt a huge thing.. the aftermarket has you covered. . prob cost a couple grand.. ive also seen these busses come from the dealer or auction with very recent replacements of these parts..
that-said i wouldnt even consider running one of these or a maxxforce without a digital dash(servicemaxx, bluefire, etc) to monitor for codes, engine oil temp, coolant temp, Boost, etc
of course ill get flamed for this post as it seems the skoolie "gods" only ever recommend stone-age slow mechanical-only engines...
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11-20-2020, 09:20 AM
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#50
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 3,826
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Not sure if I'm one of the gods, I don't consider myself as such, but I recommend against them.
Most newcomers would consider a few grand repair bill a catastrophe on a newly purchased bus. Granted, that can happen with any engine. But in my experience, the newer engines are less reliable then the older mechanical ones.
Now, if I found a dt466e that I fell in love with and it had an egr, I'd delete it. Even though the coolers on a 466 are bullet proof compared to the 6.0 and 6.4, I'm still not a fan of an engine consuming it's exhaust.
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11-20-2020, 06:16 PM
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#51
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Wyoming, Mi
Posts: 17
Year: 2007
Coachwork: International CE300
Engine: DT466E
Rated Cap: 77 passenger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828
Not sure if I'm one of the gods, I don't consider myself as such, but I recommend against them.
Most newcomers would consider a few grand repair bill a catastrophe on a newly purchased bus. Granted, that can happen with any engine. But in my experience, the newer engines are less reliable then the older mechanical ones.
Now, if I found a dt466e that I fell in love with and it had an egr, I'd delete it. Even though the coolers on a 466 are bullet proof compared to the 6.0 and 6.4, I'm still not a fan of an engine consuming it's exhaust.
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I agree with Cadillac on the 04-07 DT466. The Allison trans for that year range is a good pairing, too. A few years ago, we had the EGR cooler replaced by an independent shop and it was $1800 to do the job. Not an insignificant amount of money, and as Booyah points out, that can be a big chunk for a skoolie builder, but there are a lot of routine maintenance items on a bus that can run you about that much money, too.
The biggest issue I've seen on CE buses is the antilock brake modules. Those are pushing $4,000 to replace and we've had to replace everyone in our fleet.
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11-20-2020, 06:42 PM
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#52
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 52
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Thanks for the input everyone!
Now, between a...
- IC-CE DT466E from 2005-2007 (EGR only, no DPF or DEF)
- Thomas C2 Cummins 6.7 from 2007 (with EGR and DPF, no DEF)
- GMC B-series CAT 3126 (no emissions controls)
- Thomas FS65 CAT 3126 (no emissions controls)
...what would you choose? I ask because finding conventional Type C buses older than that which aren't total rust buckets, up here in Canada, is proving virtually impossible. There was one International Schoolmaster from '89, DT466, manual (for $15,000 lol) but that's about it.
I love the look of the C2. I've heard good things about the 6.7, but still worry about any engine with DPF. I am mechanically-inclined and have no issue doing an in-frame rebuilt aside from the cost.
Right now, I'm leaning more towards the IC-CE from 2005-2007 with the DT466E as those are plentiful and I have many to choose from. Or, a Bluebird GMC B-series if I go out west. I've heard the Bluebirds from the 2000's onward are less prone to rust?
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11-20-2020, 08:51 PM
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#53
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 19,824
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MingDynasty
I agree with Cadillac on the 04-07 DT466. The Allison trans for that year range is a good pairing, too. A few years ago, we had the EGR cooler replaced by an independent shop and it was $1800 to do the job. Not an insignificant amount of money, and as Booyah points out, that can be a big chunk for a skoolie builder, but there are a lot of routine maintenance items on a bus that can run you about that much money, too.
The biggest issue I've seen on CE buses is the antilock brake modules. Those are pushing $4,000 to replace and we've had to replace everyone in our fleet.
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the IC CE from like 08 and later with hydraulic brakes definitely has a brake controller thats a real expensive and rare part to find.. the little IC BE was one of the worst about those modules failing.
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11-20-2020, 10:08 PM
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#54
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
the IC CE from like 08 and later with hydraulic brakes definitely has a brake controller thats a real expensive and rare part to find.. the little IC BE was one of the worst about those modules failing.
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Did they update the parts? I've found some 13-year-old IC CE's that had them replaced after a couple years and were on this replacement part for the last 11 years with no issues. They also had a major wiring harness replaced around that time. Would it be safe to consider the replacement reliable? Does anyone know if they changed something to improve them after the initial 13y/o harnesses?
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11-21-2020, 08:51 AM
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#55
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 7,030
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MingDynasty
I agree with Cadillac on the 04-07 DT466. The Allison trans for that year range is a good pairing, too. A few years ago, we had the EGR cooler replaced by an independent shop and it was $1800 to do the job. Not an insignificant amount of money, and as Booyah points out, that can be a big chunk for a skoolie builder, but there are a lot of routine maintenance items on a bus that can run you about that much money, too.
The biggest issue I've seen on CE buses is the antilock brake modules. Those are pushing $4,000 to replace and we've had to replace everyone in our fleet.
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My ABS light is on and my mech quoted me six grand to replace it. He also advised me to not bother, which I agreed with for the time being. It's been on since a guy I hired cut out the floor over my rear wheels and then welded a few pieces of angle steel in place; either he cooked it with the welder or cut a wire or something.
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11-21-2020, 02:39 PM
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#56
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Wyoming, Mi
Posts: 17
Year: 2007
Coachwork: International CE300
Engine: DT466E
Rated Cap: 77 passenger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musigenesis
My ABS light is on and my mech quoted me six grand to replace it. He also advised me to not bother, which I agreed with for the time being. It's been on since a guy I hired cut out the floor over my rear wheels and then welded a few pieces of angle steel in place; either he cooked it with the welder or cut a wire or something.
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Good point, musi. We replaced them when they were used as school buses for a school and would not pass state inspections otherwise. But as a skoolie, if the bus brakes safely without that module working properly, I would not be spending that kind of money to replace it, imho.
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