2005 International 3000 Type 444e

[cofrari]

There are two 2005 International 3000 Type 444e 37-foot buses for sale from a local school district. These have been their emergency backup buses for the past 3 years since they replaced their other 12 buses.


Both buses have brand new exhaust systems, new front tires, and just had all the back tires retreaded. Rust is minimal considering they are New England buses.



Both buses have an Allison 2000 transmission (supposedly: definitely Allison, but they "think" they are a 2000)


Both buses officially came out of service in June 2021. They both start and run good.





Bus #1 -- $3150

- has a new 60-gallon gas tank (replaced due to rust)
- newly rebuilt stairwell
- 9562 hours
- 130,932 miles


Bus #2 -- $3250

- newly rebuilt stairwell
- 9018 hours
- 128,465 miles




I was hoping to get some opinions on whether either of these sounds like a good deal for my next conversion?

[o1marc]

Toss up, seem like equal buses. Pick which one looks nicest to you. Both are reasonably priced. VERIFY THEY ARE NOT AT545 Trannys. Ct. bus, check for rust on the floor, hard to do before stripping.

[Simplicity]

I have a Rear Engine flat nose 3000 with a T444E and an MT643 tranny.

Are the ones you're looking at Front or Rear engine?

The AT545 is not a big enough tranny for that size bus. The MT643 is a strong tranny, but only a 4 speed. The 2000 should be a 5 speed and maybe a 6th gear that can be unlocked. If the gear shifter is a T-handle, it is probably a 545 or 643, but could still be a 2000. If it's an electronic push button, it's likely a 2000.

Verify the rear end, then calculate the RPMs at 60mph. My rear end was a 5.11 and turned 2400rpm at 60mph. That's too high, so I had to spend $2500 to buy and install a 4.10 rear end to get 2000rpm at 60mph.

The other big issue is the electrical. I'm not sure what your knowledge level or school bus experience is, but the bus body safety electrical is integrated into the bus mechanical and can cause issues with the engine starting.

If the tranny is a 2000, it's computer controlled, versus the 545 and 643 which are mechanical.

I'm also a bit concerned about the rust issue considering the work that's already been done.

The tread on the rear tires isn't as big a deal because retread tires are fairly inexpensive, yet the tread on the front is important because they need to be new tires since there are only two, versus four, and they do the steering. So, replacing the front tires with new ones could be more expensive than replacing the four rears with retreads.

Hope this helps.

[cofrari]

These are the 2 buses - not the flat nosed ones.


https://webassets.lqdt1.com/assets/p...=480&webp=true


https://webassets.lqdt1.com/assets/p...=480&webp=true




The under body appears to have just surface rust. I know I run the risk of uncovering more rust if I get the bus.

[cadillackid]

interesting.. 05's with 444E, the production stopped on the 444E chassis in early - mid 04.. they will not be AT545's that trans was done as of mid 2003. same with the MT643. if the shifters are digital control with pushbuttons they are MD3000 series. if they are T handle (likely R-N-D-4-2-1) they are 2000 series..



solid drivetrains, wont be super powerful, but is a good reliable combo with no emissions controls and standard electronics..

[cofrari]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

interesting.. 05's with 444E, the production stopped on the 444E chassis in early - mid 04.. they will not be AT545's that trans was done as of mid 2003. same with the MT643. if the shifters are digital control with pushbuttons they are MD3000 series. if they are T handle (likely R-N-D-4-2-1) they are 2000 series..



solid drivetrains, wont be super powerful, but is a good reliable combo with no emissions controls and standard electronics..

The buses are 2005. But there is an orange sticker on the engine that says "2003 Model - T444E Engine Family". I can see the "T" shifter in one of the photos (can't see the numbers). But based on what you described, seems like the 2000 transmission. They did describe them as highway buses that can easily maintain 60-65.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

interesting.. 05's with 444E, the production stopped on the 444E chassis in early - mid 04.. they will not be AT545's that trans was done as of mid 2003. same with the MT643. if the shifters are digital control with pushbuttons they are MD3000 series. if they are T handle (likely R-N-D-4-2-1) they are 2000 series..

solid drivetrains, wont be super powerful, but is a good reliable combo with no emissions controls and standard electronics..

Christopher, I always learn something from you.