All right, I need some help from the people here

[Jarlaxle]

I know Thomases, I know Blue Birds...I know enough about Carpys to avoid them! However, there's an International Genesis with a Ward body for sale locally...anyone have a Genesis? If so, is it any good?

[Eric von Kleist]

I'm assuming he's referring to the welding issues that Carpenter buses had from the Indiana(?) plant in the late eighties? early nineties?.

[BUSBOZO]

I know here in Mass they completely outlawed the use of Carpenter bodies several years ago because they failed the rollover test. As for the Genesis/Ward body.. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the worst I would say they are about a 6 or 7.

My buddy works for a school bus company right down the road and has worked on a few of them.

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Pretty small issue to spread over an entire manufacturer if so. I'm wondering what auto manufacturer has never had a recall.

I own a bus from the "bad welds" production, and it's fine.

Smitty

Major structural problems are hardly a small issue!

[paul iossi]

Ward Gennisis, changed to AMTRAN, and is now an International/Navistar company under another name, still building busses, they are all buitl on an International truck chassis with international engines. I did a search a while back and they looked like a solid package to me, particularly interesting was the engine lineup with the dt466 at the top of the list.

[Jarlaxle]

That's this one: it has a DT466 and an MT643.

[SeanF]

Originally Posted by paul iossi

Ward Gennisis, changed to AMTRAN, and is now an International/Navistar company under another name, still building busses, they are all buitl on an International truck chassis with international engines. I did a search a while back and they looked like a solid package to me, particularly interesting was the engine lineup with the dt466 at the top of the list.

I have a 1993 AmTran/Genesis on an IHC chassis, hasn't fallen apart yet.

I would search or ask at the School Bus Fleet forum for the straight dope.

[busdriver_phil]

The Genesis has a good chassis, particularly if you get the 466/643 combo. Some in the industry aren't fans of the body, but as long as you thoroughly check for rust and other issues you should be ok.

As for Carpenters, it's hit or miss. I've seen some that were solidly built, but their quality control was inconsistent. The roof weld issue was only certain model years, but it was a major concern for school districts - buses have to meet rollover standards, among other strict requirements. The weld issue was discovered when a bus rolled over in FL and the roof separated, greatly increasing the injuries to the students aboard. For a camper, if you're comfortable with that risk go for it.

[Jarlaxle]

I'm not comfortable with that risk, and I'm not willing to risk buying one & discover I have to repair a bunch of roof welds. Regarding the Genesis, how does it compare to, say, a Blue Bird TC2000 or a Thomas Saf-T-Liner?

[busdriver_phil]

Originally Posted by Jarlaxle

I'm not comfortable with that risk, and I'm not willing to risk buying one & discover I have to repair a bunch of roof welds. Regarding the Genesis, how does it compare to, say, a Blue Bird TC2000 or a Thomas Saf-T-Liner?

For a front engine I'd take the Blue Bird, all other things equal. All Americans are better than TC2000s (heavier-duty, usually more powerful engines, often higher price tags). It's mostly personal preference - I like the looks of a Blue Bird better than an AmTran/Genesis. They also seem more solid, less rattles and leaks, but a lot of that could be build quality on individual units I've seen. Most Thomas products are good, but I drive an 02 Thomas Saf-T-Liner EF at work and I have trouble finding a comfortable driving position, but that could just be me. Having driven all three, I was most comfortable in the Blue Bird. Blue Bird also seems the quietest for engine noise, but I'd suggest that anyone converting a front-engine transit build an extra console over the the doghouse (easily removable of course for fluid checks or major repairs), and insulate the hell out of it to keep noise and heat down.