Are buses a breeding ground for mold?

[LoveBusTreatery]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

My bus was (is) massively rusted out but not a hint of mold anywhere. I mean, I'm sure I could whip up some sourdough in there but there's nothing visible (or smellable).

So essentially, no matter where one buys a bus, you're looking at RUST or MOLD, correct?

[crazycal]

Are buses a breeding ground for mold?

Yes.

Are germ factories? Yes.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by LoveBusTreatery

So essentially, no matter where one buys a bus, you're looking at RUST or MOLD, correct?

Strong possibility of either. My northeast GA bus is essentially rust free. As was my Texas bus.
I had one from Colorado that had some rust but nothing too bad. I'd buy another from there.

[wrenchtech]

Originally Posted by LoveBusTreatery

So essentially, no matter where one buys a bus, you're looking at RUST or MOLD, correct?

If you are not sensitive to mold a small amount of mold is not going to hurt you. If mold does bother you, it’s not too terribly difficult to get rid of if you are going to gut the interior anyway. That’s what I have come to believe from this discussion.

[Doktari]

I visited a friend I had not seen in a few years. He said he had gotten married and when his wife moved into his farmhouse she quickly began acting strange. Then she went literally insane. In the confusion he had the marriage annulled. She moved to stay with her Mom and recovered. He started doing some repairs on the farmhouse walls and found them lined inside with black mold! After lots or research on black mold he learned it can affect people’s behavior drastically.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by wrenchtech

I am wondering how many of you have found mold in your bus.
.

I have a bus from Vegas. No mold that I have seen. I lived in Vegas for 17 years and only saw it hit dew point conditions about 5 times, including frost.

Originally Posted by wrenchtech

Well I think I know the answer, it has to do with air-conditioning, which would be indispensable in that kind of climate. What I think is happening is that these buses are equipped with industrial-strength air-conditioning that is capable of cooling is buses to the point where the inner wall skins are cool enough that warm moist air from the outside is condensing on the inside of the wall, which causes the insulation bats to become damp which creates the perfect conditions for mold growth.

Is this a big typo? "warm moist air from the outside" would condense on the OUTSIDE of the bus if the bus skin was cool enough, not the inside. Any condensation inside would happen inside the evaporation coils where it is coldest, not on the warmer walls. You are confusing this condition with heating the inside of buildings in the wintertime.



In a storage situation, the inside and outside temps and humidity are typically the same, except in dew point conditions, and then you can have condensation inside, some times to the point where it looks like it rained inside. This is common with metal buildings and carports and has nothing to do with air conditioning.

[Sleddgracer]

Originally Posted by kidharris

I have a bus from Vegas. No mold that I have seen. I lived in Vegas for 17 years and only saw it hit dew point conditions about 5 times, including frost.





Is this a big typo? "warm moist air from the outside" would condense on the OUTSIDE of the bus if the bus skin was cool enough, not the inside. Any condensation inside would happen inside the evaporation coils where it is coldest, not on the warmer walls. You are confusing this condition with heating the inside of buildings in the wintertime.



In a storage situation, the inside and outside temps and humidity are typically the same, except in dew point conditions, and then you can have condensation inside, some times to the point where it looks like it rained inside. This is common with metal buildings and carports and has nothing to do with air conditioning.

in deserts, ranchers will layout metal roofing on a slope, cover it with black plastic- the condensation at night on the underside of the plastic drips onto the metal, drains down hill to watering troughs and provides all the water needed for the livestock - same thing would happen on the inside of a metal roof bus, no matter how arid the area is - as long as there is a temperature difference between day and night, there will be condensation when warm air comes into contact with a cold surface

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by Sleddgracer

in deserts, ranchers will layout metal roofing on a slope, cover it with black plastic- the condensation at night on the underside of the plastic drips onto the metal, drains down hill to watering troughs and provides all the water needed for the livestock

Neat trick, I've done something similar to get water at night in the desert. The metal roofing is just providing a support shape for the black plastic sheet and is really unnecessary and causes less air contact between the cool plastic and the air, the water condenses on the top and bottom of the plastic sheet. Painting the metal black would do the same thing only it wouldn't be as slippery for the water to run off as the plastic sheet. I believe that "provides all the water needed for the livestock" is a big exaggeration. Cattle drink an awful lot of water.


Years ago the Israelis tried something similar - plastic sheet on the ground with holes poked in the low places to drain dew to provide some water to the plants - too expensive and heat build up during the day was too much in the summer. Don't know the ultimate results of their experiments.

Originally Posted by Sleddgracer

- same thing would happen on the inside of a metal roof bus, no matter how arid the area is - as long as there is a temperature difference between day and night, there will be condensation when warm air comes into contact with a cold surface

If you were right about this then anything stored under metal carports would constantly get soaked.



The"temperature difference between day and night" has nothing to do with it.

"there will be condensation when warm air comes into contact with a cold surface" - almost right - the air has to be warm & MOIST - there has to be something to condense


I believe you are confusing night sky radiation effects with some other concepts. What is happening here is the black plastic is radiating to the black night time sky and cooling off the plastic below the dew temperature causing condensation from warm, moist air. This principle can also be used to actually produce thin sheets of ice in the right circumstances.

If you want to know more look up "Radiative cooling" (This is how the earth cools off every night), "Black body", "Black-body radiation", "Black-body absorption". I would just mess it up if I tried to explain it anymore.

.....OR......

Paint a few pieces of steel sheet black and some other colors and leave them pointing flat side up at the sky (preferably not laying on the ground, but on a flat piece of insulation.) Any existing metal objects/car bodys sitting around can also work. Get a cheap infra red non contact thermometer gun and walk around the desert/country (clear view of the night sky, no city lights) in the middle of a clear night (no clouds) and point the thermometer at different things and check their temperature. If you have sensitive fingertips, you don't need the thermometer. The black metal plates will be cooler than the other stuff. How much cooler depends on how you set up the experiment. Been there, done that, convinced me.

[EastCoastCB]

I've owned 5 buses in Florida. They sweat inside. That will make mold even if you don't see it.
Its not ac or heating that's making the condensation. Its the moisture in the air condensing on what's essentially a giant tin can.

[joeblack5]

Doktari... Did he get his wife back? Sound like the ingredients of a good bluegrass tune.
Johan

[Doktari]

If anyone knows of a easy way to eliminate moisture please let us know. Currently I’m poorly managing it. Other than running a dehumidifier a lot. Don’t have the power for that. Stop breathing? Breath through a snorkel going outside? Wear a body suit like in Dune? Turn a problem into a asset?
In modern houses they try and install vapor barriers and ventilation systems. If it’s done wrong it can lead to problems. And try it on a remodel. I’ve tried and it was so difficult I didn’t get it right.
I had a win win idea for a “dedicated condensation area and water reclamation surface”: Basically I’d build small stainless steel gutters and glue them at the bottom of some windows. I’d keep these clean as possible and collect water from them. If the rest of the bus is well insulated then moisture condensate might be focused on the DCAWRS??
Other than that insulating the outside of the bus is the only way to thoroughly keep the metal skin the same temperature as inside. But then what covers the insulation??
Oh don’t forget to take some wire and clean out the “weep holes” in the bottom of windows so they can drain properly.

[DawgBüs]

Originally Posted by Doktari

If anyone knows of a easy way to eliminate moisture please let us know. Currently I’m poorly managing it. Other than running a dehumidifier a lot. Don’t have the power for that. Stop breathing? Breath through a snorkel going outside? Wear a body suit like in Dune? Turn a problem into a asset?

In modern houses they try and install vapor barriers and ventilation systems. If it’s done wrong it can lead to problems. And try it on a remodel. I’ve tried and it was so difficult I didn’t get it right.

I had a win win idea for a “dedicated condensation area and water reclamation surface”: Basically I’d build small stainless steel gutters and glue them at the bottom of some windows. I’d keep these clean as possible and collect water from them. If the rest of the bus is well insulated then moisture condensate might be focused on the DCAWRS??

Other than that insulating the outside of the bus is the only way to thoroughly keep the metal skin the same temperature as inside. But then what covers the insulation??

Oh don’t forget to take some wire and clean out the “weep holes” in the bottom of windows so they can drain properly.

Now I'm curious... Did you use spray foam on your build?

[Doktari]

I have not done the interior or insulation yet but would do spray foam if I can find someone to apply it. Or buy a few $600 kits and do it myself.

[lqdchkn]

Check out West Marine or other boating supply for desiccants. Sail boaters use them a lot since they typically seal up their boats pretty well when not in use. My parents hung a length of panty hose filled with kitty liter in theirs to control moisture when all buttoned up for the winter but the sqft they were dealing with was minimal.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by Doktari

If anyone knows of a easy way to eliminate moisture please let us know. Currently I’m poorly managing it. Other than running a dehumidifier a lot. Don’t have the power for that. Stop breathing? Breath through a snorkel going outside? Wear a body suit like in Dune? Turn a problem into a asset?
In modern houses they try and install vapor barriers and ventilation systems. If it’s done wrong it can lead to problems. And try it on a remodel. I’ve tried and it was so difficult I didn’t get it right.
I had a win win idea for a “dedicated condensation area and water reclamation surface”: Basically I’d build small stainless steel gutters and glue them at the bottom of some windows. I’d keep these clean as possible and collect water from them. If the rest of the bus is well insulated then moisture condensate might be focused on the DCAWRS??
Other than that insulating the outside of the bus is the only way to thoroughly keep the metal skin the same temperature as inside. But then what covers the insulation??
Oh don’t forget to take some wire and clean out the “weep holes” in the bottom of windows so they can drain properly.

Where is the moisture coming from?

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by kidharris

Where is the moisture coming from?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQGW46B6x_4

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by lqdchkn

Check out West Marine or other boating supply for desiccants. Sail boaters use them a lot since they typically seal up their boats pretty well when not in use. My parents hung a length of panty hose filled with kitty liter in theirs to control moisture when all buttoned up for the winter but the sqft they were dealing with was minimal.

Panty hose is a remarkably adaptable material. When my grandmother got too fat for the seatbelt of her '55 Chevy, she cut the belt and extended it by sewing on a folded-up pair of her (used, of course) nylons.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

LOL, I am sure that you know that I understand condensation... if you read my other posts in this thread.


but you are right, I should have been more specific. Is the moisture/vapor coming from his breath? shower? climate? cooking? stove in winter? etc...

The way Doktari was talking I thought it sounded like his breath. "Stop breathing? Breath through a snorkel going outside? Wear a body suit like in Dune?"

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by kidharris

LOL, I am sure that you know that I understand condensation... if you read my other posts in this thread.


but you are right, I should have been more specific. Is the moisture/vapor coming from his breath? shower? climate? cooking? stove in winter? etc...

The way Doktari was talking I thought it sounded like his breath. "Stop breathing? Breath through a snorkel going outside? Wear a body suit like in Dune?"

Its humidity. In the air. It condenses on metal, glass, etc. Your breath adds to it but mine condenses heavily with no one in the bus.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by Doktari

If anyone knows of a easy way to eliminate moisture please let us know. Currently I’m poorly managing it. Other than running a dehumidifier a lot. Don’t have the power for that. Stop breathing? Breath through a snorkel going outside? Wear a body suit like in Dune? Turn a problem into a asset?

Build a "Dune suit" I've wanted to build one for 30 years. I'd like to see one that works, I have some ideas but I'm too lazy.