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Old 07-15-2021, 11:34 AM   #21
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I wouldn’t want anything thickened in the black tank they hard enough to empty and flush as is

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Old 07-15-2021, 02:43 PM   #22
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my way for a toilet

I started with a steel sink/toilet set up from a jail. The toilet came from a craigslist ad. Then a 3 inch ball valve, used from ebay. The toilet is steel for two reasons... first, steel is easier to clean. second, wont ever break. So I am cutting the toilet apart and getting rid of the S trap. I want a straight dump from the bottom of the toilet. The 3 inch ball valve is a big enough hole so that I think most will pass through the hole with out clogging. The toilet is mount direct to the ball valve. The toilet bolts to the wall with six 1/4 bolts and is connected to the ball valve with a bolt on flange. I had to manufacture the flange. The flange is brazed to the toilet, not welded. There is connection to a water pump and the toilet so a person can fill/rinse toilet bowl. The tank sits directly under the toilet. I use a flexible soft hose, a lot like an inner tube to connect ball valve outlet to the tank. The two parts are only about 1/4 inch apart but I did not want a solid connection. I fell a solid connection is a good way to break things.

operation... sit on toilet, open ball valve, do what you are going to do, clean up, close ball valve. Stand up then step on this rubber valve thing on the floor, it is a manual water pump that pumps water into the toilet bowl. if a person just peed then not much at all is used. Open ball valve to dump rinse, then close ball valve. If you have poop stuck to the bowl then fill bowl enough to be able to use toilet brush to clean it off. Open ball valve and then close. fill again to be able to clean that brush. Open ball valve dump rinse and close again.

That ball valve is important, it is smooth inside when it is open no places to catch stuff as it is going through. This also seals gas tight when closed. In my case the 3 inch hole is a really good match to the metal drain pipe that comes out the bottom of the toilet bowl. I thought a small one could catch **** and be a cleaning problem. I saw no point in anything bigger. The very good condition used ball valve cost me $60 including shippin on Ebay and weighs about 25 lbs. The seals on this thing are meant to stand up to some crazy kinds of chemicals and conditions and I expect it to last more than my lifetime.

The stainless steel toilet bowl does not even have a toilet seat. This is all one piece. It will not rust. crack, or break in any way I can imagine. Because it is fastened to the ball valve and the bus wall and the ball valve is bolted to the floor. This will not go anywhere in a wreck. I dont think it will ever leak. The foot valve takes water from tank that is only about two feet from the toilet and is filled with water that would be consumed only if an emergency. Main drinking water is in different tank absolutely no way to cross contaminate.

No gray water tank. I have a spray/cleaning port. I have the toilet inlet. I have a sink inlet. I have a 1/4 in line like what get used on air brakes for the vent tube, no fans. The big dump port at the bottom. The tank is mounted to the floor of the bus and not the frame. I dont have pictures

I had a plasma cutter and that made cutting up the toilet unit pretty easy. I have done gas welding and brazing in the past so that was a skill to revive. I bought a small oxy/acetylene torch set up so I could do this project, but I have used it for a couple of other projects since.

We only use the toilet when stopped. I travel with grandkids and usually a friend of theirs or two. Mostly girls. When one has to go, they all have to go. I did not wall off the toilet. A plastic shower curtain is used. A hand washing sink is next to the toilet but now we also have some alcohol base hand cleaner too.

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Old 07-15-2021, 05:13 PM   #23
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I would never use a "P" Trap in a bus. They require water in the lower loop to prevent the smell from entering the cabin. Park for one week and that water evaporates and when you return to your bus after a month of sitting in the 100* sun you will be greeted with a stench you won't like. The piece you want is called a Hepvo valve. It has rubber flaps that allow one way direction of waste, but closes when no draining to prevent the odor escape.
https://www.amazon.com/HEPVO-BV1BUB1...95483991&psc=1

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Old 07-16-2021, 03:02 AM   #24
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A trap is dead simple and effective, never leaks and wears out, etc.

Looking into thickening water, it looks like a good solution is the opposite of thickened water, but lightened water. Using fumed silica creates a shaving cream texture to water, which flows easily and traps gas, but is so light that it is effected very little by gravity and thus won't slosh around.
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Old 07-16-2021, 05:18 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by o1marc View Post
I would never use a "P" Trap in a bus. They require water in the lower loop to prevent the smell from entering the cabin. Park for one week and that water evaporates and when you return to your bus after a month of sitting in the 100* sun you will be greeted with a stench you won't like. The piece you want is called a Hepvo valve. It has rubber flaps that allow one way direction of waste, but closes when no draining to prevent the odor escape.
https://www.amazon.com/HEPVO-BV1BUB1...95483991&psc=1

Iíve left mine for a month in a really hot place. Some water evaporated from the toilet bowl, maybe half. But it didnít get to the point of smelling.
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Old 07-16-2021, 05:20 AM   #26
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A trap is dead simple and effective, never leaks and wears out, etc.

Looking into thickening water, it looks like a good solution is the opposite of thickened water, but lightened water. Using fumed silica creates a shaving cream texture to water, which flows easily and traps gas, but is so light that it is effected very little by gravity and thus won't slosh around.
Maybe just a little vegetable oil in the drain would keep the water from making the leap from liquid to gas?
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Old 07-16-2021, 12:43 PM   #27
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A simple way might be to just make the toilet seat seal to the bowl.
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Old 07-16-2021, 04:20 PM   #28
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Our setup is a little different being in a coach Bus.
We have the bays underneath.
We went with separate Black and gray water tanks although they drain through the same connection.
We opted for an RV toilet, Dometic 310, had a large Porcelain bowl (the wife gets what she wants)
The toilet is directly over the black tank, our plumbing is such that there is usually always water to flush, not much is needed, a one gallon jug has worked on occasion.
Has worked good for the 4 years it has been in there.

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Old 07-18-2021, 11:43 PM   #29
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We opted for an RV toilet, Dometic 310, had a large Porcelain bowl (the wife gets what she wants)
So I looked at one of these at the RV dealer and they looked good.
Did not seem easy to find without long delays, but found one online at camping world 30 miles away and ordered it. Well their inventory lied, and it was out of stock like all the others.

Sheeee-it, for once I was just going to buy something rather than DIY, and now look what happens.
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Old 07-19-2021, 10:50 AM   #30
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So I found this toilet, it is only 1.0gpf and uses pressure assist and clearance sale at $40 with free shipping. Now I'm guessing it is only the bowl at that price, but the pics show it includes the pressure tank. We will see when it arrives. If no tank, I can diy something..



https://hdsupplysolutions.com/p/seas...a-bowl-p108466
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Old 07-22-2021, 03:06 PM   #31
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Yep, it was just the bowl. Test fit it into the MH and a regular tank would not fit anyway without hacking into the sink area.

I will start another thread, but the sloshing issue seems not an issue, as after flush the toilet if you don't fill the bowl, you are left with just enough water to fill the trap.
I'd also say with my testing, that frankly one can just have a gallon water container and you can flush the toilet just dump it in, no real tank or water line or foot pedal or lever needed. Might splash if not careful which might be unwanted, but you can rig a seat that you pour into. Simple.

However, not good enough I want to waste more time making it better.

Let me add that I would not recommend use a household toilet AS-IS installed in a home.
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Old 07-22-2021, 03:28 PM   #32
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Why did you think it came with a pump, that's a standard home toilet. Is it 1g like the title says, or 1.6g like the details say?
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Old 07-28-2021, 12:28 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeNimble View Post
The rv toilets drain straight into the tank, whereas house toilets have a trap that seals the drain, which must be kept full of water.
The trap probably needs a lot more water to get the contents to move through it.
That said, a house toilet is so easy to clean. And are essentially free..I plan to try and modify one for the Nautibus.
A diamond cutting blade can cut the porcelain.

They also make high pressure kits so the toilet flushes with more pressure than just the weight of the water to push it through the trap. Those are the noisy kind you see at home depot, etc.
How did.you mount your tank underneath?
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Old 07-28-2021, 01:18 PM   #34
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How did.you mount your tank underneath?
I know you're asking another user, but I did document how I mounted my black tank not to long ago in my build thread. In short I put strut up on the floor joists, then secured the tank up against the strut using threaded rod and strut to support it.

Above the tank shots:
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/k...tml#post411637
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/k...tml#post411745

The tank held up:
threaded_rod_25%.jpg

tank_support_r_25%.jpg

tank_support_f_25%.jpg


That's for the black tank, grey tanks were mounted differently as they were identical size to the chassis frame rails:
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/k...tml#post345076


Also used strut, but supported by the frame, rather than the cabin floor joists.
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Old 07-28-2021, 06:37 PM   #35
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How did.you mount your tank underneath?
The black tank came installed already in the Class C Motorhome, so I didn't have to figure it out. My Nautibus will have a 'composting' toilet so the tank will just be a bucket.

Oh to follow up on the idea of thickening water, I ran into these packets of "water absorbing crystals" that you can put in the toilet that thicken it up, so when you remove it, the water in the trap doesn't spill out making an ugly mess. I tested a bit in a little cup of water, and sure enough, it gels up after a few minutes. However, just add more water and it turns into more like soup.

And this reminded me of a story I read about farmer in Mexico that used this stuff to retain water in his fields instead of evaporating, it soaks up and releases it back slowly. And sure enough when I look for bigger supply (not little packets), the sell big bags of it for watering plants, etc.
I don't think it is needed as I said before, but if so, it isn't going to clog up the black tank.
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Old 09-08-2021, 03:56 PM   #36
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A simple way might be to just make the toilet seat seal to the bowl.

Ummm if you get an RV toilet you have a seal in the valve at the base of the toilet.
If you're putting a home toilet in because it's "easier to clean" the reason for that is that it's porcelain not plastic and there are indeed porcelain RV toilets and porcelain Marine toilets. They're also available in multiple sizes include full sized home styles.
If you're floor plan makes positioning the black tank under an RV style toilet then you can purchase an RV or Marine macerating toilet, put your black tank anywhere (even on the roof though I wouldn't recommend that) and let the macerating toilet pump the effluent to the tank....side benefit...never havfe to worry about a poop stalagmite.


And then there are the toilets that bag each "load" and twist seal it with the bag being tossed when full. Kind of expensive for full timing but workable for weekender and occasional trips.
And finally, the best except for energy consumption.....the incinerators. Propane or electric, just a little sterile ash left from your "business" If you are a "park to park, gotta have a plug in" type "camper" then either would probably work. Off grid, you'll want the propane. Electric consumption for the electric version is over a kilowatt per "flush".


We're most likely going with the macerator with porcelain bowl and also installing a grey water pump to send the kitchen grey water to a conveniently located gray tank.


Bottom line in choosing what's right is to consider the "mission" of the rig it's going in.
Park to park always have a 30 or 50 amp plug, water, and sewer?
Weekends and the occasional one or two week trip?
Full time?
Long off grid periods?
Aversion to "playing with poo bags and buckets"?



Household toilets use way too much water and require far too much tankage for many "missions". RV straight drop into the tank toilets use the least of the water flushing toilets with the macerator types using a bit more (read the specs though as some use a lot of water).
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Old 09-08-2021, 03:57 PM   #37
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Yeah, if we don't flush our tank regularly it really starts to stink. You need 3 holes in total for black and grey tanks imo:

  • Waste gate hole (3"-6", usually comes with from factory, lowest point of the tank)
  • Direct, pressurized water inlet to flush out the tank from time to time (furthest from waste gate hole, often beneficial to install a tank rinser product: https://www.amazon.com/Camco-40126-T.../dp/B000BUU5TU)
  • Air vent hole that goes to the roof. DO NOT share this vent with your composting toilet... the moment you get into motion with anything in the tank the little fan for the toilet will not stand a chance at preventing back flow of air as stuff sloshes around.
And place your waste gate valves as close to the tank as possible if you don't want pipes to freeze in winter.

That tank is going to take forever to fill without a fourth hole for the poo to get in there.
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Old 09-08-2021, 04:37 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by HamSkoolie View Post
Ummm if you get an RV toilet you have a seal in the valve at the base of the toilet.
...

Household toilets use way too much water and require far too much tankage for many "missions". RV straight drop into the tank toilets use the least of the water flushing toilets with the macerator types using a bit more (read the specs though as some use a lot of water).
The seal OPENS when you flush the toilet, now it creates a full open air exchange from the holding tank to the air in the house. House toilets NEVER do that, the water is always sealing the sewage from the house.

If you read what I posted, the porcelain RV toilets have been out-of-stock for months.

RV toilets also use a lot less water...per flush. But then you get the poop pyramid in the tank and draining it becomes a problem.
One very experienced RV guy recommends you fill an empty holding tank with 10 gallons of water to keep it working right. As I see it, flushing with water is going to use the same amount in the long run.

Macerators are good until they don't work. I can't imagine how bad it will be to repair one when something goes down and jams it up.
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Old 09-08-2021, 05:47 PM   #39
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Keep it civil and useful, please. I'd rather not delete more posts here.
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Old 09-09-2021, 01:20 AM   #40
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The seal OPENS when you flush the toilet, now it creates a full open air exchange from the holding tank to the air in the house.
Got it.
I would think the descending water and "other materials" would create a vacuum behind them thus putting a minute pressure to the tanks side which would relieve itself through the vent stack. I've used that type of toilet for decades and never smelt anything coming back. Perhaps others are more sensitive to the odor.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BeNimble View Post
If you read what I posted, the porcelain RV toilets have been out-of-stock for months.
Have you checked Amazon. We havec been looking at toilets for several days now and they have lots of porcelain bowl RV toilets to chose from and in stock according to the item pages.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BeNimble View Post
RV toilets also use a lot less water...per flush. But then you get the poop pyramid in the tank and draining it becomes a problem.
One very experienced RV guy recommends you fill an empty holding tank with 10 gallons of water to keep it working right. As I see it, flushing with water is going to use the same amount in the long run.
I've only ever had standard RV toilets until this build and have never had an issue with a pyramid. I put an inch of water in the tank (since our tanks are under insulating covers I don't know how many gallons that is) then drop in our tank treatment. Used to use the pods but currently trying a powder that we dissolve in a toilet bowl full of water then drop down. When I dump I fill the black tank to the brim and dump. I then fill to the brim again and dump. Then I dump my grey tank. We also have a "sani-flush" system which I connect a couple times a year. Trailer is a 2006 and the tanks still look like new.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BeNimble View Post
Macerators are good until they don't work. I can't imagine how bad it will be to repair one when something goes down and jams it up.
No worse than dropping a black tank. Flush with clear water (it will go through by gravity unless you're pumping uphill which is possible but not likely in an RV or someone stuck a "flushable wipe" in which means they get to do it if they're over 10 years of age). I've seen a few "well used" ones replaced on video and they've always managed to get the really icky stuff out first.
But yeah, it's not a nice though and we plan to have an emergency "toilet" available in the rig (bucket with a bag and lid) just in case.
YMMV.
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