Before I do something stupid...

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by Kentucky Dreaming

Yup. Click the paper clip icon to attach a file. You can attach a photo our any other file to your posts. It doesn't have to be on the public interweb. This one is one that only exists on my hard drive:

Thanks for the pic

[mrpincher]

Originally Posted by Kentucky Dreaming

Yup. Click the paper clip icon to attach a file. You can attach a photo our any other file to your posts. It doesn't have to be on the public interweb. This one is one that only exists on my hard drive:

Sorry I'm kinda slow in this regard. Will see if this works for me on the only bus picture I have at work. I'll post from home with pictures and explanations, tonight.
Mike
ps. my apologies to the software

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by mrpincher

I have used three 30 lb forklift style tanks under my bus for the last two years. They are mounted behind a door, in a self made cabinet, at the rear of my bus. Horizontal tanks will not work vertically. Maybe that is what's confusing some folks. Lots of guessing on this subject. If this forum software wasn't so sucky I'd post a picture clipped from the place I bought them on ebay. But Oh, well. Here's a link.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/36351968411...5b9b98d26c5fe7

This is more representative of a forklift tank. Notice that the fill connector and the line connector on the valve are separate and not the same.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/11...g?v=1451788330

[HamSkoolie]

Originally Posted by kidharris

I drove numerous propane powered forklifts, Toyota, Yale, Clark, Mitshibishi, Nissan, Kamatso, and whatever else was put in front of me off and on for 15 years.

Never paid attention to brands other than Hyster. Drove everything from 4k to 27k as well as a ton of diesel powered gear..... Drove them in lumber mills, military (where I "owned" most of them), and warehousing. Five plus years in the mill, a full career in the Marines.

Originally Posted by kidharris

Operators were only allowed to change/swap tanks, not fill tanks. Only the propane company delivery truck drivers were allowed to fill bottles.

That leads me to believe it must have been post turn of the century, dictated by idiots in offices, regulatory or policy. Far more dangerous and failure inducing to swap tanks out like that. We had our own large propane tank and would merely pull up to the tank, fill up, and go. Heck, if we didn't have time we would even just put a bit in to get us to a less hectic point so we could fill.

Originally Posted by kidharris

"If by changing tanks you can tell if there is liquid or gas being discharged by the tank, you did something wrong as the valve should be closed before disconnecting."

It's not so much the liquid from the tank, it's the liquid in the line to the engine from accidently depressing the schrader type valve...

Kind of proves my point. As well as my point above about inducing failures.

Originally Posted by kidharris

Swapping a bottle involved obtaining a bottle, dismounting and mounting a bottle, and disconnecting and reconnecting a hose, a real pita. The connection going to the forklift had a spring loaded valve similar to a shrader valve (valve core on a tire) only more substantial, so that propane stayed in the line going to the engine so it would start quicker after swapping the bottle (and keep it from spraying out flammable gas for however long it took to evaporate all of the fuel in the line).

Again, introducing potential failures and hazardous situations via a number of mechanisms.
Tank or truck valve failures whether during swap or in what sounds like a massive number of stored full and empty tanks.

Tank securing clamp failure due to wear or improper securing
Dropping a tank thus potentially damaging it
Personal injury from lifting the tanks or dropping on ones self.
Simply UNSAFE policy.
Then again, it sounds like you didn't have an onsite tank for some reason which is simply not acceptable from a financial or safety standpoint with as many trucks and the level of usage you've described.

Originally Posted by kidharris

To connect the hose you had to make sure that the center pin in the schrader type valve was depressed correctly, the O ring had no cracks/scratches and was centered/aligned, and the fitting centered and hand tightened correctly. Any errors would result in frozen fingers (supposed to wear gloves, which of course made the job hard/impossible) or a no start n go situation. Because the tanks were changed often and usually by people who did not know what they were doing ... the connections were worn and didn't work smoothly so that it was easy to do it badly resulting in liquid leaks.

You've just described EXACTLY why such a system/policy is inherently flawed and dangerous.

Originally Posted by kidharris

To fill (not swap) a bottle requires an expensive tank, metering pump, and hose setup.

Which is called the "cost of doing business". You would be surprised how fast the cost of that "expensive" set up would be recouped in saved wages, lowered cost for propane service (service truck and labor filling all those tanks), and reduced injuries.

Originally Posted by kidharris

...not to mention the "boom factor".

Which, while a legitimate concern, is such a rarity that it's not worth mentioning when compared to the hazards associated with hundreds of tank exchanges.

Originally Posted by kidharris

In the civilian world, in the USA, it is also legally regulated. Out side of an extreme emergency --as in "our world is about to end anyway"-- why would the training consist of "here's how you do it, got it? Bye."

Probably because it was before there were so many ambulance chasing lawyers convincing people they could get an easy payout from an ignorant jury thus resulting it all those warning stickers you find on everything today....like the Prop 65 carcinogen warning on firewood sold in California or the label warning not to use the hair drier in the shower.

To be clear, I had far more training in the military than I ever got in the civillian world. But then I retired the first time before Y2K and the second time in Y2K +4.

I sounds to me like you most likely had that 15 years experience (or the majority of it) post turn of the century and your mindset has been informed by the "nanny state" of things. Nothing against you, just you have a different experience and your ideas and concepts are formed from those different experiences.

[ol trunt]

aaaiiisskkk. ddddjjjuuum.






The paper clip technique works though it takes a while to figure out how to get a pic where you want it.
Jack

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by kidharris

I think it was true when he typed it.

Hmm, I usually upload my pics from the popup window and then type the comment to go with it, so in my case it would not have been true by the time I typed it.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by mrpincher

Sorry I'm kinda slow in this regard. Will see if this works for me on the only bus picture I have at work. I'll post from home with pictures and explanations, tonight.
Mike
ps. my apologies to the software

FYI, if you only add the pic in the popup window, it will show up in the "attached thumbnails" section at the bottom of your post, as yours did. After uploading pics, if you click on the paper clip a second time, you will see a list of the pics you have uploaded (inconveniently, they will not have their original filenames here) in a drop down. If you click on a file in this list, it will add the image in the middle of your actual comment (i.e. "inline"), wherever the cursor happens to be at the time (and then it will not be in the attached thumbnails section).

[Kentucky Dreaming]

You did it!!!

[Kentucky Dreaming]

Originally Posted by kidharris

Thanks for the pic

That is River, the female eagle I keep track of since 2017. She and her hubby Obey, (pronounced OH-bee) have raised several broods despite having their tree blown over last spring on Dale Hollow Lake ...

I will go away now...

[mrpincher]

I took a regular old 1960’s heavy steel junk office filing cabinet because it was free and cut it down so I could shorten the length and height and width. Then I placed the propane tanks inside it to make it as snug as possible around the tanks and riveted the cabinet back together. The cabinet only serves to keep dust and rain off the tanks, protect the hoses, and regulator. It isn’t pretty but it has traveled the 2000 miles well.



Next, I bought a rivnut rivet gun and fastened some iron supports across the bottom of the bus to serve as anchoring plates for the threaded rod. Used about 20 SS rivet nuts into the cross struts on the bottom of the bus. Fastened threaded rod to some angle iron running the length of the underside of the cabinets. Pulled everything up snug and bolted or riveted it all together into one unit. As you can see in pictures 3 & 4 the tank cabinet barely hang below the bottom of the sides of the bus.



Note** In winter 1 tank will last me over a week in zero-degree weather. I have a 12000 btu propane furnace, a stove top, and water heater using propane. The three tanks together will get me through a month of the coldest Amarillo weather. I’m just now setting up to run a generator off the propane as well and finding out that the generator will not run off the 10-15 psi regulator the that the other appliances run from. The generator wants lower pressure and higher volume – I think.

[Zork]

Nicely done.

[Zork]

Interesting info on food truck inspection. This is how North Carolina address all the end-of-the-world comments that have shown up on this thread.

https://www.ncmhtd.com/NCDACS/Standards/FoodTruck

[Bon Voyage]

Originally Posted by Zork

Interesting info on food truck inspection. This is how North Carolina address all the end-of-the-world comments that have shown up on this thread.

https://www.ncmhtd.com/NCDACS/Standards/FoodTruck

I bet in most instances if a high truck or something were to hit the back end of a food truck or bus, the propane tank would get pushed into the back of the truck or bus before it ruptured. Especially if it is blunt force; if it’s point force you might be more likely to see a tank punctured. I’m not sure how thick those tank walls are but they’re pretty thick, then the round shape also adds to the strength vs if it were a square.

[Zork]

Originally Posted by Bon Voyage

I bet in most instances if a high truck or something were to hit the back end of a food truck or bus, the propane tank would get pushed into the back of the truck or bus before it ruptured. Especially if it is blunt force; if it’s point force you might be more likely to see a tank punctured. I’m not sure how thick those tank walls are but they’re pretty thick, then the round shape also adds to the strength vs if it were a square.

The reality is that I have not been able to find a single, solitary instance of an explosion caused by a vehicle running into the back of a food truck and into propane tanks. Ever. All the accidents I have found took place INSIDE the food truck and virtually all of them were caused by negligence or just plain garden variety stupidity, either by the operators of the truck, or in one case by idiots at U-Haul who overfilled a 100# tank way beyond capacity. The tank ruptured in Philadelphia and U-Haul was fined over a million dollars for their negligence.

In fact, the only instance I could find of a rear-ended accident involving propane was when a pickup truck rear ended a commercial propane delivery truck near Reno about four years ago. There was a fire, but the tank was intact. What the pickup ran into was all the hardware in the back to hook up to customer's tanks, including valves that were not protected correctly. The tank survived with scorching in the rear but completely intact otherwise.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by Zork

Interesting info on food truck inspection. This is how North Carolina address all the end-of-the-world comments that have shown up on this thread.

https://www.ncmhtd.com/NCDACS/Standards/FoodTruck

LOL, YOUR A FUNNY GUY

I looked at your link, it is very informative on how to schedule an inspection prior to getting your food truck licensed/permitted, some common items are shown/listed and provides a check list, and states that "NCDA&CS LP-Gas Inspectors use the latest edition of NFPA 58: Liquefied Petroleum Gas Code (aka LP-Gas Code) as the minimum standard, as referenced by state regulation." and that "each jurisdiction having its own requirements and process for permitting."

It had nothing to substantiate your claim "This is how North Carolina address all the end-of-the-world comments that have shown up on this thread."

Good luck with getting your " propane system inspection and approval by the North Carolina Department of Agriculture & Consumer Services Standards Division prior to issuing the license/permit" your food truck business.

On a more serious note:


I also ran across a similar discussion on another forum.
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/f...print/true.cfm

Topic: Propane tank safety
Posted By: jfdemars on 01/20/08 07:23pm
"Does anyone know of a regulation that prohibits mounting a propane tank on the rear bumper of an RV"

It has some interesting answers and links, including these

NFPA 58 National Gas Code.

NFPA 1192: Standard on Recreational Vehicles.

this may be more useful if you can find it, it was refered to in the only free version of NFPA 58 that I could find, 1998

"NFPA 501C, Standard on Recreational Vehicles"

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by Bon Voyage

I bet in most instances if a high truck or something were to hit the back end of a food truck or bus, the propane tank would get pushed into the back of the truck or bus before it ruptured. Especially if it is blunt force; if it’s point force you might be more likely to see a tank punctured. I’m not sure how thick those tank walls are but they’re pretty thick, then the round shape also adds to the strength vs if it were a square.

That occurred to me also. Do you think that the flames/explosion/damage would then be confined to the inside of the bus?

[Bon Voyage]

Originally Posted by kidharris

That occurred to me also. Do you think that the flames/explosion/damage would then be confined to the inside of the bus?

Yes! Fires always stay confined to where we want them

[Zork]

Originally Posted by kidharris

Good luck with getting your " propane system inspection and approval by the North Carolina Department of Agriculture & Consumer Services Standards Division prior to issuing the license/permit" your food truck business.

You think I am funny? Who said anything about me living in NC or even operating a food truck in the first place? Remember what I said about overactive imaginations? Tag, you're it.

As to "regulations" prohibiting the mounting of propane tanks in the rear, there are none. The NFPA does not promulgate regulations of any kind.

[HamSkoolie]

Originally Posted by Zork

As to "regulations" prohibiting the mounting of propane tanks in the rear, there are none. The NFPA does not promulgate regulations of any kind.

WAIT!!!!!
You mean a PRIVATE COMPANY can't write regulations?


Well actually they have written some....at least they call them regulations, they're actually just their internal organizational POLICIES but some numbskull decades ago probably called them regulations. Regulations, in the modern sense, are legislatively based.


Now a legislature might enact REGULATIONS that state some private companies suggestions be adopted, but the private company isn't making the regulation.

[Zork]

Originally Posted by HamSkoolie

WAIT!!!!!
You mean a PRIVATE COMPANY can't write regulations?

Well actually they have written some....at least they call them regulations, they're actually just their internal organizational POLICIES but some numbskull decades ago probably called them regulations. Regulations, in the modern sense, are legislatively based.

Now a legislature might enact REGULATIONS that state some private companies suggestions be adopted, but the private company isn't making the regulation.

Most people can't tell the difference between a regulation and a garden hose...