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04-05-2019, 11:22 PM
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#21
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,222
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
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Is the starter clicking, or a relay? Either then it is bad, or you gotta hellava short.
It's so fun diagnosing by guess without honds-on, a voltmeter in action, or more info than "help it won't start"...
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04-05-2019, 11:24 PM
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#22
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,222
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
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or maybe the motor-to-battery-ground wire has corrosion on the terminal(s)
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04-05-2019, 11:29 PM
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#23
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
Coachwork: myself
Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
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I've got a volt meter. It's a brand new starter. It worked before. I'm baffled
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04-05-2019, 11:36 PM
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#24
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
Coachwork: myself
Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Gnome
Is the starter clicking, or a relay? Either then it is bad, or you gotta hellava short.
It's so fun diagnosing by guess without honds-on, a voltmeter in action, or more info than "help it won't start"...
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It's the starter clicking
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04-05-2019, 11:39 PM
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#25
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,222
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
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Is it getting a full 12-volt "signal" to the starter solenoid to engage the starter gear?
Sometimes you need to test this with a test-light, not a digital gauge. The light will show that it is receiving amps, not merely volts.
Often a relay between the key-switch and the starter will go bad, still click, still pass voltage, but not amperage.
Other times I have found the ECM is sending voltage, but not amperage, to activate a relay, i.e. the ECM is going bad (that was a AC system, not a starting system, but same circuit design.
Is the starter "clicking" when you turn the key? Is another relay clicking?
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04-05-2019, 11:41 PM
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#26
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
Coachwork: myself
Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
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The starter clicking
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04-05-2019, 11:42 PM
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#27
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,222
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead pirate
It's the starter clicking
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If the starter is new, not from Pep-Boys, and tests out on a bench test or another vehicle, and the battery is new and starts other motors of the same type, then I would start thinking about the motor ground wire.
Or a bad "new" starter.
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04-05-2019, 11:42 PM
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#28
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
Coachwork: myself
Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
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I'm thinking it has something to do with the ecm. I'm going to try again tomorrow
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04-05-2019, 11:44 PM
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#29
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
Coachwork: myself
Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Gnome
If the starter is new, not from Pep-Boys, and tests out on a bench test or another vehicle, and the battery is new and starts other motors of the same type, then I would start thinking about the motor ground wire.
Or a bad "new" starter.
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That'salways a possibility. I got it from rush truck parts. It worked for a week.
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04-05-2019, 11:56 PM
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#30
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,222
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
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The first vehicle repair job I ever did was an alternator from Pep-Boys. 2 bolts, and two wires. It did not work. I was so frustrated, and towed my truck into a shop. The guy came out with my "true-blue" alternator in hand and said in an east-Jersey/Bronx kinda accent "lemme tellya one thing- never go to Pep-Boys." Lately I shun Autozone. Too many of my customer's parts were just plain wrong, or cheap-o creap-o.
Good luck. Wish I was "there" for you.
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04-05-2019, 11:57 PM
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#31
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
Coachwork: myself
Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
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Thanks I'm gonna try again fresh in the morning
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04-06-2019, 10:04 AM
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#32
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 20,042
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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what does the bluefire say? it should read the current computer data assuming the computer is powering up correctly.. any DTC codes?
also, measure the voltage at the batteries themsekves when turning the key to "start".. that 8.1 if at the battery and the starter isnt spinning the engine is way too low to fire the starter or the injectors..
the other possibility thgiough very unlikely is that the starter motor is engaging but unable to turn the engine.. (ie spun a bearing and seized it).. you'd likely get smoke from the starter wires pretty quickly if thats the case.
the computer has 2 feed circuits.. 1 is BAT+ and the other is ignition+, if both are powered up, your bluefire will be able to talk to the diagnostic port at Key-On engine off .. it should display current coolant and oil temps as well as battery voltage at the ECM..
if the bluefire doesnt talk at key on, then we know the issue is in one of the power circuits to the ECM..
be sure a wire didnt get against the exhaust manifold and melt, that the 2 connectors on the computer are secured.. (dont overtighten)..
those 2 plastic turn wheels on the computer love to strip out.. theres a center screw in each one of those.. you can take the plastic wheel off and use a 10MM socket to snug the ECM connectors.. snug not torque down. over-tighten and ther connectors crack.
the wires on the starter junctrion terminal coming loose from engine vibrations is also a possibility..
im niot ready to shoot the starter dead as the underlying thing here is that the bus was running dopwn the road and shut down.. so whatever this is happened without the starter being involved..
-Christopher
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04-06-2019, 10:22 AM
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#33
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,222
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
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I did not even want to mention "seized"
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04-06-2019, 10:31 AM
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#34
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
Coachwork: myself
Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
what does the bluefire say? it should read the current computer data assuming the computer is powering up correctly.. any DTC codes?
also, measure the voltage at the batteries themsekves when turning the key to "start".. that 8.1 if at the battery and the starter isnt spinning the engine is way too low to fire the starter or the injectors..
the other possibility thgiough very unlikely is that the starter motor is engaging but unable to turn the engine.. (ie spun a bearing and seized it).. you'd likely get smoke from the starter wires pretty quickly if thats the case.
the computer has 2 feed circuits.. 1 is BAT+ and the other is ignition+, if both are powered up, your bluefire will be able to talk to the diagnostic port at Key-On engine off .. it should display current coolant and oil temps as well as battery voltage at the ECM..
if the bluefire doesnt talk at key on, then we know the issue is in one of the power circuits to the ECM..
be sure a wire didnt get against the exhaust manifold and melt, that the 2 connectors on the computer are secured.. (dont overtighten)..
those 2 plastic turn wheels on the computer love to strip out.. theres a center screw in each one of those.. you can take the plastic wheel off and use a 10MM socket to snug the ECM connectors.. snug not torque down. over-tighten and ther connectors crack.
the wires on the starter junctrion terminal coming loose from engine vibrations is also a possibility..
im niot ready to shoot the starter dead as the underlying thing here is that the bus was running dopwn the road and shut down.. so whatever this is happened without the starter being involved..
-Christopher
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It is still connects. The read out says code followed by an L and the word description. it says to tap fault formore info but nothing happens.
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04-06-2019, 10:36 AM
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#35
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
Coachwork: myself
Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
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Now it's not connecting.
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04-06-2019, 10:37 AM
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#36
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,222
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
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Why would the starter click (make sure you put your hand on it (or mechanic's stethescope)) if the ECM is bad? If the ECM was bad, the starter would never get a signal to make it click.
Every time I had a starter that "clicked," it was bad; every time in 30 years.
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04-06-2019, 10:39 AM
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#37
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,222
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead pirate
Now it's not connecting.
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Voltage? (at battery and dash gauge)
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04-06-2019, 10:39 AM
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#38
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
Coachwork: myself
Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Gnome
Why would the starter click (make sure you put your hand on it (or mechanic's stethescope)) if the ECM is bad? If the ECM was bad, the starter would never get a signal to make it click.
Every time I had a starter that "clicked," it was bad; every time in 30 years.
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That makes sense. Im confused about the voltage drop with the key in the on position.
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04-06-2019, 10:40 AM
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#39
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
Coachwork: myself
Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Gnome
Voltage? (at battery and dash gauge)
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The blue fire isn't connecting
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04-06-2019, 10:44 AM
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#40
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,222
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead pirate
Im confused about the voltage drop with the key in the on position.
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There's your problem! Short somewhere. I missed that part, I thought the voltage only dropped when starting...
Assuming your battery is good; oh, and there is no diesel heater coming on.
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