Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-05-2019, 10:22 PM   #21
Bus Crazy
 
Mountain Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,194
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
Is the starter clicking, or a relay? Either then it is bad, or you gotta hellava short.


It's so fun diagnosing by guess without honds-on, a voltmeter in action, or more info than "help it won't start"...

Mountain Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 10:24 PM   #22
Bus Crazy
 
Mountain Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,194
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
or maybe the motor-to-battery-ground wire has corrosion on the terminal(s)
Mountain Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 10:29 PM   #23
Bus Nut
 
Dead pirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
Coachwork: myself
Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
I've got a volt meter. It's a brand new starter. It worked before. I'm baffled
Dead pirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 10:36 PM   #24
Bus Nut
 
Dead pirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
Coachwork: myself
Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Gnome View Post
Is the starter clicking, or a relay? Either then it is bad, or you gotta hellava short.


It's so fun diagnosing by guess without honds-on, a voltmeter in action, or more info than "help it won't start"...
It's the starter clicking
Dead pirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 10:39 PM   #25
Bus Crazy
 
Mountain Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,194
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
Is it getting a full 12-volt "signal" to the starter solenoid to engage the starter gear?


Sometimes you need to test this with a test-light, not a digital gauge. The light will show that it is receiving amps, not merely volts.


Often a relay between the key-switch and the starter will go bad, still click, still pass voltage, but not amperage.


Other times I have found the ECM is sending voltage, but not amperage, to activate a relay, i.e. the ECM is going bad (that was a AC system, not a starting system, but same circuit design.


Is the starter "clicking" when you turn the key? Is another relay clicking?
Mountain Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 10:41 PM   #26
Bus Nut
 
Dead pirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
Coachwork: myself
Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
The starter clicking
Dead pirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 10:42 PM   #27
Bus Crazy
 
Mountain Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,194
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead pirate View Post
It's the starter clicking
If the starter is new, not from Pep-Boys, and tests out on a bench test or another vehicle, and the battery is new and starts other motors of the same type, then I would start thinking about the motor ground wire.


Or a bad "new" starter.
Mountain Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 10:42 PM   #28
Bus Nut
 
Dead pirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
Coachwork: myself
Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
I'm thinking it has something to do with the ecm. I'm going to try again tomorrow
Dead pirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 10:44 PM   #29
Bus Nut
 
Dead pirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
Coachwork: myself
Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Gnome View Post
If the starter is new, not from Pep-Boys, and tests out on a bench test or another vehicle, and the battery is new and starts other motors of the same type, then I would start thinking about the motor ground wire.


Or a bad "new" starter.
That'salways a possibility. I got it from rush truck parts. It worked for a week.
Dead pirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 10:56 PM   #30
Bus Crazy
 
Mountain Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,194
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
The first vehicle repair job I ever did was an alternator from Pep-Boys. 2 bolts, and two wires. It did not work. I was so frustrated, and towed my truck into a shop. The guy came out with my "true-blue" alternator in hand and said in an east-Jersey/Bronx kinda accent "lemme tellya one thing- never go to Pep-Boys." Lately I shun Autozone. Too many of my customer's parts were just plain wrong, or cheap-o creap-o.


Good luck. Wish I was "there" for you.
Mountain Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 10:57 PM   #31
Bus Nut
 
Dead pirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
Coachwork: myself
Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
Thanks I'm gonna try again fresh in the morning
Dead pirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2019, 09:04 AM   #32
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 15,604
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
what does the bluefire say? it should read the current computer data assuming the computer is powering up correctly.. any DTC codes?



also, measure the voltage at the batteries themsekves when turning the key to "start".. that 8.1 if at the battery and the starter isnt spinning the engine is way too low to fire the starter or the injectors..



the other possibility thgiough very unlikely is that the starter motor is engaging but unable to turn the engine.. (ie spun a bearing and seized it).. you'd likely get smoke from the starter wires pretty quickly if thats the case.



the computer has 2 feed circuits.. 1 is BAT+ and the other is ignition+, if both are powered up, your bluefire will be able to talk to the diagnostic port at Key-On engine off .. it should display current coolant and oil temps as well as battery voltage at the ECM..



if the bluefire doesnt talk at key on, then we know the issue is in one of the power circuits to the ECM..



be sure a wire didnt get against the exhaust manifold and melt, that the 2 connectors on the computer are secured.. (dont overtighten)..



those 2 plastic turn wheels on the computer love to strip out.. theres a center screw in each one of those.. you can take the plastic wheel off and use a 10MM socket to snug the ECM connectors.. snug not torque down. over-tighten and ther connectors crack.



the wires on the starter junctrion terminal coming loose from engine vibrations is also a possibility..



im niot ready to shoot the starter dead as the underlying thing here is that the bus was running dopwn the road and shut down.. so whatever this is happened without the starter being involved..



-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2019, 09:22 AM   #33
Bus Crazy
 
Mountain Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,194
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
I did not even want to mention "seized"
Mountain Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2019, 09:31 AM   #34
Bus Nut
 
Dead pirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
Coachwork: myself
Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
what does the bluefire say? it should read the current computer data assuming the computer is powering up correctly.. any DTC codes?



also, measure the voltage at the batteries themsekves when turning the key to "start".. that 8.1 if at the battery and the starter isnt spinning the engine is way too low to fire the starter or the injectors..



the other possibility thgiough very unlikely is that the starter motor is engaging but unable to turn the engine.. (ie spun a bearing and seized it).. you'd likely get smoke from the starter wires pretty quickly if thats the case.



the computer has 2 feed circuits.. 1 is BAT+ and the other is ignition+, if both are powered up, your bluefire will be able to talk to the diagnostic port at Key-On engine off .. it should display current coolant and oil temps as well as battery voltage at the ECM..



if the bluefire doesnt talk at key on, then we know the issue is in one of the power circuits to the ECM..



be sure a wire didnt get against the exhaust manifold and melt, that the 2 connectors on the computer are secured.. (dont overtighten)..



those 2 plastic turn wheels on the computer love to strip out.. theres a center screw in each one of those.. you can take the plastic wheel off and use a 10MM socket to snug the ECM connectors.. snug not torque down. over-tighten and ther connectors crack.



the wires on the starter junctrion terminal coming loose from engine vibrations is also a possibility..



im niot ready to shoot the starter dead as the underlying thing here is that the bus was running dopwn the road and shut down.. so whatever this is happened without the starter being involved..



-Christopher
It is still connects. The read out says code followed by an L and the word description. it says to tap fault formore info but nothing happens.
Dead pirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2019, 09:36 AM   #35
Bus Nut
 
Dead pirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
Coachwork: myself
Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
Now it's not connecting.
Dead pirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2019, 09:37 AM   #36
Bus Crazy
 
Mountain Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,194
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
Why would the starter click (make sure you put your hand on it (or mechanic's stethescope)) if the ECM is bad? If the ECM was bad, the starter would never get a signal to make it click.


Every time I had a starter that "clicked," it was bad; every time in 30 years.
Mountain Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2019, 09:39 AM   #37
Bus Crazy
 
Mountain Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,194
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead pirate View Post
Now it's not connecting.
Voltage? (at battery and dash gauge)
Mountain Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2019, 09:39 AM   #38
Bus Nut
 
Dead pirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
Coachwork: myself
Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Gnome View Post
Why would the starter click (make sure you put your hand on it (or mechanic's stethescope)) if the ECM is bad? If the ECM was bad, the starter would never get a signal to make it click.


Every time I had a starter that "clicked," it was bad; every time in 30 years.
That makes sense. Im confused about the voltage drop with the key in the on position.
Dead pirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2019, 09:40 AM   #39
Bus Nut
 
Dead pirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
Coachwork: myself
Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Gnome View Post
Voltage? (at battery and dash gauge)
The blue fire isn't connecting
Dead pirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2019, 09:44 AM   #40
Bus Crazy
 
Mountain Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,194
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead pirate View Post
Im confused about the voltage drop with the key in the on position.
There's your problem! Short somewhere. I missed that part, I thought the voltage only dropped when starting...
Assuming your battery is good; oh, and there is no diesel heater coming on.
Mountain Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.