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Old 04-06-2019, 09:45 AM   #41
Bus Nut
 
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
Coachwork: myself
Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
what does the bluefire say? it should read the current computer data assuming the computer is powering up correctly.. any DTC codes?



also, measure the voltage at the batteries themsekves when turning the key to "start".. that 8.1 if at the battery and the starter isnt spinning the engine is way too low to fire the starter or the injectors..



the other possibility thgiough very unlikely is that the starter motor is engaging but unable to turn the engine.. (ie spun a bearing and seized it).. you'd likely get smoke from the starter wires pretty quickly if thats the case.



the computer has 2 feed circuits.. 1 is BAT+ and the other is ignition+, if both are powered up, your bluefire will be able to talk to the diagnostic port at Key-On engine off .. it should display current coolant and oil temps as well as battery voltage at the ECM..



if the bluefire doesnt talk at key on, then we know the issue is in one of the power circuits to the ECM..



be sure a wire didnt get against the exhaust manifold and melt, that the 2 connectors on the computer are secured.. (dont overtighten)..



those 2 plastic turn wheels on the computer love to strip out.. theres a center screw in each one of those.. you can take the plastic wheel off and use a 10MM socket to snug the ECM connectors.. snug not torque down. over-tighten and ther connectors crack.



the wires on the starter junctrion terminal coming loose from engine vibrations is also a possibility..



im niot ready to shoot the starter dead as the underlying thing here is that the bus was running dopwn the road and shut down.. so whatever this is happened without the starter being involved..



-Christopher
I reser the bluefire and now it shows the code. It says. (Pid) boost pressure. Voltage belownormal or shorted to low source.

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Old 04-06-2019, 09:47 AM   #42
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,156
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
Back to motor ground....has that been verified corrosion free? That might be all problems....
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Old 04-06-2019, 09:49 AM   #43
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
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Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
I checked that when i put a different battery in. But Now I'm gone check everything.
I looked at the back of the alternator ( yesterday) and the white wire was touching a small post next to it. Or isn't Now. I'm going to go over all of the wires.
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Old 04-06-2019, 09:53 AM   #44
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Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
I'm frustrated for you...
Good luck amigo!
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Old 04-06-2019, 09:55 AM   #45
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Location: in the bus on the road
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Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
I ran the codes it's showing. Looked at a firumn and it suggested a bad relay. I'm going to check those. That's the most likely culprit. Thanks for your help.
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Old 04-06-2019, 09:58 AM   #46
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Rated Cap: 26 foot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead pirate View Post
I ran the codes it's showing. Looked at a firumn and it suggested a bad relay. I'm going to check those. That's the most likely culprit. Thanks for your help.
A technician in the making...
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Old 04-06-2019, 12:14 PM   #47
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Year: 1998
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Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
The codes said start or ecm relay problem. I charged the batteries and replaced the relay. And it started. Yehaa.
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Old 04-06-2019, 12:15 PM   #48
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Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
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Year: 1999
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Engine: DT466/3060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Gnome View Post
Why would the starter click (make sure you put your hand on it (or mechanic's stethescope)) if the ECM is bad? If the ECM was bad, the starter would never get a signal to make it click.


Every time I had a starter that "clicked," it was bad; every time in 30 years.
Usually the solenoid on the starter is the culprit.
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Old 04-06-2019, 12:17 PM   #49
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Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc View Post
Usually the solenoid on the starter is the culprit.
The white wire on the alternator was touching the small connectornext to it. I think that blew the ecm relay when i triedto start it. I'm so glad i got the bluefire. It told me the code and i fixed it.
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Old 04-06-2019, 12:45 PM   #50
Bus Nut
 
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Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
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Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
I then removed the positive terminal from the battery and the bus died. I'm thinking the alternator is shot too. Thank goodness i have a spare.
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Old 04-06-2019, 06:14 PM   #51
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Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Yeah!! You got it running, I’m guessing the alternator went bad with the wire issue and killed the batteries. It’s takes a LOT of battery charge to start one of these electronic engines, mine won’t start if I kill the batteries until I charge them fully like a pretty much overnight charge .. I’ve had it where it cranks as fast as any normal car would but the ECM won’t fire the injectors..
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Old 04-06-2019, 07:53 PM   #52
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
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Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
Yup. That's it exactly. The ecm relay. A dead cell in one of the batteries, and a short in the alternator. Took a minute to realize i had 3 issues. Thanks to you and the gnome I'm rolling. Sucks, but now I'm gonna park it and drive beastie around this summer. Sometime i have to create the interior. That's gonna be another adventure.
Thanks again. Again.
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Old 04-06-2019, 08:38 PM   #53
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 15,426
Year: 1991
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
So this is a new bus you are going to build out? For some reason I was thinking you got it cheap and overhauled it to flip, do you still have the RE?
Christopher
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Old 04-06-2019, 08:45 PM   #54
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Posts: 529
Year: 1998
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Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
I still have the RE. It's my beastie. This new one i just wrestled into submission is a similar one. It's more or less a project bus. I'm gonna hopefully live in our in the winter at s farm in Oregon. I'm trying to buy a piece of land out there. I might flip it. After all this struggle. I'd hate to let it go.
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Old 04-06-2019, 10:13 PM   #55
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Join Date: Sep 2015
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Year: 2002
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Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
Whew! I am almost giddy just reading about how it all came together for you.


Looks like the BlueFire is no longer an optional item for my tool bag.
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Old 04-07-2019, 07:08 AM   #56
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
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Year: 1991
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
this is cool you have both! i wasnt sure what the plans for the new build are.. cool stuff to have 2 of them.. plus anything you didnt like about your first buold you recitify in your second!..


I think in this day and age of electronic busses beingthe norm that all of us are buying now, that some type of scan tool is a must in everyone;s Bus.. I realize I probably have more of them in my tool box than the average but I can say that they have been a lifesaver for me in several instances.. not just with my bus but others who have called me for busted-bus help..



there are "ways" to get the fully unlocked versions of some of the ma nufacturer tools which give you access to all of the settings..



we really need a place on this forum for all of the electromnic engine related threads so others can use them as a learning experience...



a troubleshooting forum if you will.. esp for the most common engines that people are buying now... (DT-466E,T-444E,5.9 ISB, CAT3126, Cat C7, VT-365)... all the navistar stuff uses the same principles... and the CAT 3126 does too...



-Christopher
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Old 04-07-2019, 09:03 AM   #57
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Engine: T444E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead pirate View Post
I then removed the positive terminal from the battery and the bus died. I'm thinking the alternator is shot too. Thank goodness i have a spare.

Not necessarily. Some of these electrical systems need the batteries in place for the bus to run, even though the alternator is indeed charging.
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Old 04-07-2019, 02:30 PM   #58
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Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
Figures. I was wondering about that. I'm gonna put a new one in it anyways. I'm only getting 11.7 v out of it.
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Old 04-07-2019, 04:19 PM   #59
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Join Date: May 2009
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
11.7 is no charge. Is it a single wire or has the 2 pin connector ? If that 2 pin pops off or is loose the alternator doesn’t get a turn on voltage and won’t charge.
There is usually 2 terminals one labeled 1 and one labeled 2 terminal 2 is supposed to get plus 12 when you turn the key on which brings up the electronics in the alternator. Of. Purse the fat wire goes to the batteries.. or sometimes to the starter post where everything junctions.
Christopher
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Old 04-11-2019, 10:30 AM   #60
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: in the bus on the road
Posts: 529
Year: 1998
Coachwork: myself
Chassis: amtran
Engine: international dt466e allison md 3060
Rated Cap: 13 ton or so says the tit
I put the new alternator on and the same thing occurs.11.7 v at the battery and at the alternator. There are 2 wires, a red one and a white one. On my other bus i connected another wire to the back of the alternator but i can't remember what. Maybe to the ignition. I've done so many things since then. Like sleep. I can't remember.
I don't get any codes saying bad battery or alternator
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