Bluefire

[Mountain Gnome]

Is the starter clicking, or a relay? Either then it is bad, or you gotta hellava short.


It's so fun diagnosing by guess without honds-on, a voltmeter in action, or more info than "help it won't start"...

[Mountain Gnome]

or maybe the motor-to-battery-ground wire has corrosion on the terminal(s)

[Dead pirate]

I've got a volt meter. It's a brand new starter. It worked before. I'm baffled

[Dead pirate]

Originally Posted by Mountain Gnome

Is the starter clicking, or a relay? Either then it is bad, or you gotta hellava short.


It's so fun diagnosing by guess without honds-on, a voltmeter in action, or more info than "help it won't start"...

It's the starter clicking

[Mountain Gnome]

Is it getting a full 12-volt "signal" to the starter solenoid to engage the starter gear?


Sometimes you need to test this with a test-light, not a digital gauge. The light will show that it is receiving amps, not merely volts.


Often a relay between the key-switch and the starter will go bad, still click, still pass voltage, but not amperage.


Other times I have found the ECM is sending voltage, but not amperage, to activate a relay, i.e. the ECM is going bad (that was a AC system, not a starting system, but same circuit design.


Is the starter "clicking" when you turn the key? Is another relay clicking?

[Dead pirate]

The starter clicking

[Mountain Gnome]

Originally Posted by Dead pirate

It's the starter clicking

If the starter is new, not from Pep-Boys, and tests out on a bench test or another vehicle, and the battery is new and starts other motors of the same type, then I would start thinking about the motor ground wire.


Or a bad "new" starter.

[Dead pirate]

I'm thinking it has something to do with the ecm. I'm going to try again tomorrow

[Dead pirate]

Originally Posted by Mountain Gnome

If the starter is new, not from Pep-Boys, and tests out on a bench test or another vehicle, and the battery is new and starts other motors of the same type, then I would start thinking about the motor ground wire.


Or a bad "new" starter.

That'salways a possibility. I got it from rush truck parts. It worked for a week.

[Mountain Gnome]

The first vehicle repair job I ever did was an alternator from Pep-Boys. 2 bolts, and two wires. It did not work. I was so frustrated, and towed my truck into a shop. The guy came out with my "true-blue" alternator in hand and said in an east-Jersey/Bronx kinda accent "lemme tellya one thing- never go to Pep-Boys." Lately I shun Autozone. Too many of my customer's parts were just plain wrong, or cheap-o creap-o.


Good luck. Wish I was "there" for you.

[Dead pirate]

Thanks I'm gonna try again fresh in the morning

[cadillackid]

what does the bluefire say? it should read the current computer data assuming the computer is powering up correctly.. any DTC codes?



also, measure the voltage at the batteries themsekves when turning the key to "start".. that 8.1 if at the battery and the starter isnt spinning the engine is way too low to fire the starter or the injectors..



the other possibility thgiough very unlikely is that the starter motor is engaging but unable to turn the engine.. (ie spun a bearing and seized it).. you'd likely get smoke from the starter wires pretty quickly if thats the case.



the computer has 2 feed circuits.. 1 is BAT+ and the other is ignition+, if both are powered up, your bluefire will be able to talk to the diagnostic port at Key-On engine off .. it should display current coolant and oil temps as well as battery voltage at the ECM..



if the bluefire doesnt talk at key on, then we know the issue is in one of the power circuits to the ECM..



be sure a wire didnt get against the exhaust manifold and melt, that the 2 connectors on the computer are secured.. (dont overtighten)..



those 2 plastic turn wheels on the computer love to strip out.. theres a center screw in each one of those.. you can take the plastic wheel off and use a 10MM socket to snug the ECM connectors.. snug not torque down. over-tighten and ther connectors crack.



the wires on the starter junctrion terminal coming loose from engine vibrations is also a possibility..



im niot ready to shoot the starter dead as the underlying thing here is that the bus was running dopwn the road and shut down.. so whatever this is happened without the starter being involved..



-Christopher

[Mountain Gnome]

I did not even want to mention "seized"

[Dead pirate]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

what does the bluefire say? it should read the current computer data assuming the computer is powering up correctly.. any DTC codes?



also, measure the voltage at the batteries themsekves when turning the key to "start".. that 8.1 if at the battery and the starter isnt spinning the engine is way too low to fire the starter or the injectors..



the other possibility thgiough very unlikely is that the starter motor is engaging but unable to turn the engine.. (ie spun a bearing and seized it).. you'd likely get smoke from the starter wires pretty quickly if thats the case.



the computer has 2 feed circuits.. 1 is BAT+ and the other is ignition+, if both are powered up, your bluefire will be able to talk to the diagnostic port at Key-On engine off .. it should display current coolant and oil temps as well as battery voltage at the ECM..



if the bluefire doesnt talk at key on, then we know the issue is in one of the power circuits to the ECM..



be sure a wire didnt get against the exhaust manifold and melt, that the 2 connectors on the computer are secured.. (dont overtighten)..



those 2 plastic turn wheels on the computer love to strip out.. theres a center screw in each one of those.. you can take the plastic wheel off and use a 10MM socket to snug the ECM connectors.. snug not torque down. over-tighten and ther connectors crack.



the wires on the starter junctrion terminal coming loose from engine vibrations is also a possibility..



im niot ready to shoot the starter dead as the underlying thing here is that the bus was running dopwn the road and shut down.. so whatever this is happened without the starter being involved..



-Christopher

It is still connects. The read out says code followed by an L and the word description. it says to tap fault formore info but nothing happens.

[Dead pirate]

Now it's not connecting.

[Mountain Gnome]

Why would the starter click (make sure you put your hand on it (or mechanic's stethescope)) if the ECM is bad? If the ECM was bad, the starter would never get a signal to make it click.


Every time I had a starter that "clicked," it was bad; every time in 30 years.

[Mountain Gnome]

Originally Posted by Dead pirate

Now it's not connecting.

Voltage? (at battery and dash gauge)

[Dead pirate]

Originally Posted by Mountain Gnome

Why would the starter click (make sure you put your hand on it (or mechanic's stethescope)) if the ECM is bad? If the ECM was bad, the starter would never get a signal to make it click.


Every time I had a starter that "clicked," it was bad; every time in 30 years.

That makes sense. Im confused about the voltage drop with the key in the on position.

[Dead pirate]

Originally Posted by Mountain Gnome

Voltage? (at battery and dash gauge)

The blue fire isn't connecting

[Mountain Gnome]

Originally Posted by Dead pirate

Im confused about the voltage drop with the key in the on position.

There's your problem! Short somewhere. I missed that part, I thought the voltage only dropped when starting...
Assuming your battery is good; oh, and there is no diesel heater coming on.