Bought a partial build- procrastinating-overwhelmed- help?

S0ManyQuestions · 04-02-2022, 07:27 PM

Hello!
I recently purchased a partial skoolie build as a total impulse buy. Long story short (it will still be long- I babble) -day after Christmas, got in a conversation about van/skoolie life and how fun it would be to convert a bus/van and learn a lot of valuable skills along the way, with the ultimate goal of being able to travel freely with my dog. This conversation led to a long night of looking at buses. I stumbled on skoolie livin. I found a partial build only 2 hours from me. Its a 2002 Chevy-Collins 4 window Short bus- Dually Chasis-5.7 Liter V8 Gas- 163,000 miles. The posting was asking for $18,000. It needed new tires stated in the posting as well as needing an alignment. There was a lot of good work done and toys included. I will copy the original posting here explaining all the work done:

"We stripped the bus down to the sheet metal, everywhere. The bus has been treated for rust and double sealed at every seam. We have gone through an extensive round of preventative maintenance on the mechanics. Just replaced the front breaks. Rotors, calipers, and pads.

-Replaced Fuel Pump

-Replaced Mass airflow sensor

-Replaced fuel injector spider and rebuilt/cleaned intake manifold

-Replaced all spark plugs and spark plug wires
Installed AC that would have come with the chevy van (we removed the old school bus AC unit)

After stripping the bus down to the bones we rebuilt the bus interior with the following highlights:

-Combined level of insulation that evens out to a 6.5 R-Value around the entire bus.
-1 sealed sunroof

-1 hatch/sunroof to access the bus where the old rooftop emergency exit was located

-The ceiling is lined with aromatic cedar underneath is insulation and all the metal ribs of the bus are studded with wood studs on either side.

-Butcher block countertop

-Lots of overhead cabinet space
-Lockbox over the drivers door

-Liquid nailed and 3/4 inch pressure treated plywood on top of the metal floor

-LifeProof floating floors for the floors with cork in between the floating floors and the 3/4 inch pressure treated plywood.

-We replaced the bus driver chair with a back seat to a transit van. Making it so you can fit two people upfront and also remove the seat easily or turn it around and have extra seating for when the bus is parked
We also installed an outside bar table that is made out of a piece of cedar and moved the emergency windows to be in front of the kitchen and flipped them sideways so they swing out on their sides and fully open up the kitchen to the outside.

There are a series of appliances already installed in the bus including:-Maxx Air fan

-Dometic stovetop

-Deep sink

–ICECO Fridge–Nature’s Head Toilet

The bus has power everywhere. We wired the bus with 12 volt system that is directly wired through a fuse box to a 270 AMP Hour battery that charges off the alternator when the bus is running through a Victron 12v to 12v charge isolator. More details below:-270 AH 8D Battle Born battery is the main house battery for the bus

-Bluetooth Victron Monitor (so you can check out the battery from your phone and see how much is left, consumption, etc)

-Victron 12V to 12V Charge isolators

-Breakers between all components for safety

-2 DC fuse boxes that all the power in the bus is connected too.
-2 back side cabin lights

-1 back overhead cabin lights

-1 front cabin light

-Power for appliances like the fridge

-Power for the ignition button on the stove

-Power for track lights,

-Lots of power everywhere to run whatever you want to run.

-Backup Camera " End of post from seller

Alright so Obviously that is all written in a way to sell but it seemed like the perfect option for me. I have a full time job and live alone. I live an hour away from my family and most of my friends that could help. I have only basic home improvement skills so a partial build of this caliber- 2 hours away- it just seemed too perfect. I emailed him offering 10k- he laughed, I told him I was 2 hours away and extremely interested. Next day I went to check it out and a cashiers check for $13k later, I had a bus in my driveway.

Since then I have procrastinated a ton going in spurts of feeling motivated and spurts of being helpless and defeated. As of right now, all I have done is:

Replace all 6 tires with brand new ones-Remove shower/bathroom walls original builder put up, because its a 4-window bus and that took up the entire left side of the bus- It opened up for more seating/storage. I then built a bed frame. Sturdy as hell and pretty proud of it. I have purchased an excel tankless hot water heater and Chinese diesel heater. I have a plan in my head of what needs to be done but I am overwhelmed in learning and executing all of what needs to be done. As well as learning a premade electrical system. Most of all my concerns/questions reside in the electrical system. I don't have any electrician friends sadly- so that's really why I am here- told ya I babble- so if you're still here *cheers*. The seller was not the original builder- I do not have original builders information.

I really want my electrical professionally done. I don't even know if what currently is in place is safe and efficient. My goal is for this bus to be a weekend warrior and long trip bus for now, but would like full off-grid capability. Should I call a local residential electrician? Should I go to an RV service shop? Should I hire a van build/ skoolie build consultant? Should I post a bunch of pictures here and hope I can learn from all of you? I am so lost, lol. I am confident once all the electrical is stamped complete and done well, I can install the plumbing and propane system and finish off the build. I just don't know where to start. Any advice?

TL;DR: Impulse 9-5er buys partial skoolie. Wants professional help to check out and finish existing electrical system. Overwhelmed, needs encouragement and guidance.

Thank you!!

I will post pictures if anybody can help!

BarnYardCamp · 04-02-2022, 07:48 PM

I take pics with a digital camera, down load the pics to my desk top. Then, after writing what ever I wanted to say, I click on the "Go Advanced" block below and attach the pictures. I am not tech savvy, so if I can do it, most likely any body can.

S0ManyQuestions · 04-02-2022, 08:23 PM

I should have clarified haha- I meant I can upload pictures if anyone read through the post and seemed like they could help with what I was needing help with. Didnt know if my post would get any attention- I should probably just post pictures anyways.

Rwnielsen · 04-02-2022, 10:19 PM

Almost anytime you have a question a picture will help. It's good to be cautious about your wiring and make sure its safe. I look forward to following along

S0ManyQuestions · 04-02-2022, 11:07 PM

The electrical system is housed in a cabinet behind the driver's seat. I took pictures of all the exposed wiring and you will see some of the exposed wire has tape with writing on it. Some of which seem like they were for certain appliances. The person who started the build and did the electrical definitely had skill but he had a plan that isn't clearly stated anywhere and I don't know if I can extend wiring or how to delete and run new wiring. Anyone in central Illinois by chance who has extensive electrical knowledge? hahaha. Just to mention: in cabinet above the system is a Victron blue-tooth monitor. Took picture of cabinet but didn't get monitor.

S0ManyQuestions · 04-02-2022, 11:08 PM

Thank you! Just posted some! Will definitely post more.

TheHubbardBus · 04-03-2022, 09:52 AM

There are some issues I see, which leads me to believe there are probably some issues I haven't yet seen, or am missing.

A) No fuse off the battery. You should have a fast-blow current limiting fuse w/in a few inches from the positive terminal, then (ideally) to a rated cut-off switch, and finally to a bus-bar, post, or distibution panel.

B) The battery doesn't appear to be secured from movement. If this is correct, it needs to be.

C) If the breaker (yellow/black box) at the input of the DC-DC charger is the overcurrent protection for that circuit, it's in the wrong place. It should be at the source, which is back where this cable connects to your battery. It may be that you do have a fuse there, in which case this wouldn't (necessarily) be a problem. You probably would like to have one way to switch it on/off, which this allows.

D) Going from that DC breaker (the black/yellow switch) into that thin-gauge wire to feed the two fuse boxes... that's not at all right. Multiple issues. That needs to be redone.

E) Is that combined bundle of wires/cabling running through a rough hole/penetration in wood? It looks like it is, and if it is, that's wrong. All your wiring needs to be protected from rubbing / chaffing anywhere it penetrates areas like this.

F) One of those lugs look like it was clamped on with someone's teeth. Probably nit-picky, but I'd want at least that one redone, and all heat-shrunk. That being said they appear like they're likely making good contact. But I'm not sure they were installed w/ an appropriate tool (could be just the pic, though. It's hard to tell).

G) I can't tell from the pictures, but it looks like all the wires coming off the fuse boxes are the same size, but the fuses are different values? If this is the case, that's not right. And using red wires to the ground blocks? That's bad practice. I hope they're actually connected to ground.

FYI none of these problems are an electrocution hazard (it's all 12VDC), but they could potentially lead to over-heating, which could - in a worst-case scenario - potentially lead to a fire. Do I see that as a likelihood? Probably not. But I don't think electrical is anything you should cut corners on, regardless of the chances of something going wrong. There's right, and there's wrong, with zero in-between (to me).

Don't despair. It's not going to be that hard to square away. And you should be able either extend / re-use / re-route the wiring there to support your appliances where you want them (though I don't know how well the construction lends to you routing wires throughout it). But I would find someone local if you can to at least give you initial guidance, if not assist directly.

Also, all the components used are very high quality (Victron / Battleborn / Blue Sea). Once you get these issues fixed you'll have a real nice system. And if your plan is to add solar charging capability later it should be fairly easy to incorporate.

Finally, I know this sounds like I'm really knocking the seller, but I'm not. The things they did right I'm not mentioning because they don't matter for the purposes of this discussion, but there are many things they did right. For all I know many of these issues were things they just hadn't got around to addressing yet. And admittedly some things I can't be certain of due to the limitations of pictures. All this to say - it could have been way, way worse ;) I think they did what they considered to be a good job, and it's not too far away from one.

S0ManyQuestions · 04-03-2022, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus

There are some issues I see, which leads me to believe there are probably some issues I haven't yet seen, or am missing.

A) No fuse off the battery. You should have a fast-blow current limiting fuse w/in a few inches from the positive terminal, then (ideally) to a rated cut-off switch, and finally to a bus-bar, post, or distibution panel.

B) The battery doesn't appear to be secured from movement. If this is correct, it needs to be.

C) If the breaker (yellow/black box) at the input of the DC-DC charger is the overcurrent protection for that circuit, it's in the wrong place. It should be at the source, which is back where this cable connects to your battery. It may be that you do have a fuse there, in which case this wouldn't (necessarily) be a problem. You probably would like to have one way to switch it on/off, which this allows.

D) Going from that DC breaker (the black/yellow switch) into that thin-gauge wire to feed the two fuse boxes... that's not at all right. Multiple issues. That needs to be redone.

E) Is that combined bundle of wires/cabling running through a rough hole/penetration in wood? It looks like it is, and if it is, that's wrong. All your wiring needs to be protected from rubbing / chaffing anywhere it penetrates areas like this.

F) One of those lugs look like it was clamped on with someone's teeth. Probably nit-picky, but I'd want at least that one redone, and all heat-shrunk. That being said they appear like they're likely making good contact. But I'm not sure they were installed w/ an appropriate tool (could be just the pic, though. It's hard to tell).

G) I can't tell from the pictures, but it looks like all the wires coming off the fuse boxes are the same size, but the fuses are different values? If this is the case, that's not right. And using red wires to the ground blocks? That's bad practice. I hope they're actually connected to ground.

FYI none of these problems are an electrocution hazard (it's all 12VDC), but they could potentially lead to over-heating, which could - in a worst-case scenario - potentially lead to a fire. Do I see that as a likelihood? Probably not. But I don't think electrical is anything you should cut corners on, regardless of the chances of something going wrong. There's right, and there's wrong, with zero in-between (to me).

Don't despair. It's not going to be that hard to square away. And you should be able either extend / re-use / re-route the wiring there to support your appliances where you want them (though I don't know how well the construction lends to you routing wires throughout it). But I would find someone local if you can to at least give you initial guidance, if not assist directly.

Also, all the components used are very high quality (Victron / Battleborn / Blue Sea). Once you get these issues fixed you'll have a real nice system. And if your plan is to add solar charging capability later it should be fairly easy to incorporate.

Finally, I know this sounds like I'm really knocking the seller, but I'm not. The things they did right I'm not mentioning because they don't matter for the purposes of this discussion, but there are many things they did right. For all I know many of these issues were things they just hadn't got around to addressing yet. And admittedly some things I can't be certain of due to the limitations of pictures. All this to say - it could have been way, way worse ;) I think they did what they considered to be a good job, and it's not too far away from one.

Thank you so much for taking the time to look at this and give your input! You put that all into terms I could understood man, thanks so much. This is probably a dumb questions, but in order to add outlets throughout, I would have to get a DC-AC converter right? Solar would just need the panel, hook ups and MPPT charge controller to be added?

It does run through a hole to the cabinet above, I could just remove the bottom of the cabinet and extend to the upper cabinet where the solar charge controller would likely be added to.

As far as finding people, do you think a union residential electrician is worth consulting? Or should I try and find some apprentice looking for side work or something? I just am not sure how universal the knowledge of these Skoolie/van electrical systems are. Thanks again for taking the time to analyze that boss, you're the man.

TheHubbardBus · 04-03-2022, 01:37 PM

Happy to help. I would have had to work this morning if I wasn't answering your question

Yes, for the AC (alternating current) side of things - regular household outlets - you need an inverter (a converter is actually the opposite) if you wish to power them off your DC battery. The choice of that component is a whole 'nother bag of worms, but that's the gist. One of the things the seller did right was obviously wire as much (in this case everything) DC as possible. There are losses when converting from DC to AC that you want to avoid if possible when being 'off grid' is something you desire. So you should try to limit what you power via AC, when/if you go that route, to that with no viable DC alternative.

'solar' is just another way to charge your battery(ies), and yes, you've got it right, though MPPT refers to a type of charge controller, not necessarily the charge controller itself. You need a charge controller, but it doesn't necessarily have to be MPPT (PWM is the less expensive, but potentially less-efficient, alternative). Of course you need the small stuff too... breakers/fuses, probably a busbar or two, etc.

As far as who to seek out, I don't think a licensed residential electrician necessarily brings anything to the table that someone more experienced with RV/boat/vehicle electrical systems wouldn't... the problem is trusting/vetting them. An electrician probably doesn't work w/ DC much/ever, but they certainly should be able to, and the license buys trust in their abilities. Best, when you don't know who to trust, would be an electrician that does do this work - so maybe a van conversion company with pros on deck? FWIW there are numerous electricians on this site - and I'm not one of them - so perhaps they'll give you better insight into that question than I can provide. And any of them would also be great choices. Perhaps one is in your area?

S0ManyQuestions · 04-03-2022, 02:10 PM

hahaha glad to be the escape! Ill be posting a lot more here for questions and updates, thanks again. Pretty awesome community here, glad I jumped in.

As far as locals, ill have to do some more searching. I have done the basic google and angie list searches and trying to search my area here, no luck.. yet. But I can get more creative with my search.

Anonther question for ya not so much electrical just something that came up- again big newbie question... but how worried should I be about weight? I see most people recommended to opt-out of 4-windows and the smallest to go should be a 5 window due to weight concerns. Its a dually 3500 express chaisis with LT tires (brand new), but with a good amount of weight to be added still, im not too sure when to start really considering that. The seller included a 55 gallon fresh water tank with fittings separate. Ive been debating trying to trade for a smaller fresh water tank- as I don't think ill ever need 55 gallons of fresh water- and now considering that's an extra ~500 Lbs I think I should possibly really explore that idea- unless I am really blowing this whole weight concern out of proportion. Thanks again man- hopefully ill run into ya one day on the road!

TheHubbardBus · 04-03-2022, 02:40 PM

I don't understand why a 4-window wouldn't be better than 5 regarding weight. Less bus, less weight. Plus less you can put in/on it. But that assumes the same suspension and drivetrain. Are the 4-windows generally different in that regard?

Should you be worried about weight? IMO absolutely. I started worried and remain that way with everything we add lol. But I have no clue what constitutes 'too much', for your build, nor for ours. Personally I try to keep it in mind, and do what I can to minimize it while still getting what we want out of our build. But I'm just guessing. Every so often I drive it and verify it still moves under its own power

Don't know about the water. Kind of depends on what you intend to do. I'm figuring (very, very roughly - competely untested - who knows if I'm right) 70 gallons, which is what we've alloted, will be good for 2 people, a couple critters, and bi-weekly showers for a period of 2 weeks. That's kinda what we're building - something that we can last for 2 weeks at a time in BFE without resupply. Your needs/desires may be completely different. One thing about water though as opposed to most everything else: you're not forced to fill it. But I suppose a half-empty tank could cause weight distribution issues w/ sloshing. I started a thread a while back and got mixed responses as to whether half-empty tanks would cause enough weight shift to cause problems.

Hope to meet you someday too! Hope to actually be on the road someday! Speaking of which, I better start working...

Oliveguam · 04-09-2022, 10:34 PM

In my opinion you could have done much worse. In the electrical side I would do a bit of reading and find an old copy of any book by Nigle Calder. He has been writing on the subject for years and where this is not a boat the parallels are many and he has a way of first giving the simple version then expanding on it to the hows and whys. Many editions of his book have been written to keep up with the times, but most will give you a good footing. He is often the reference point to solve many boatowners debates. Next, lists lists lists. Write a list of goals and sub divide the lists by materials needed and time estimates. This can drive priorities to keep progress going. Lastly make committed habits of working on it. Let your friends know of your "bus days" to build your resolve and them to keep you accountable to a routine. Further they might want to help and bring unknown tallents to the table. Nothing brings about an audience,and with it help than activity and progress. Nothing drives progress than a team commitment and appreciation. Also make time to enjoy and showcase it as you are able as to make it all the more the prize in your life you want it to be.