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12-03-2019, 09:53 PM
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#1
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New Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 7
Year: 2006
Coachwork: US Bus
Chassis: Ford
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Bus Not Starting or Turning
Bought a short bus about a month ago - 2006 Ford E350, runs like a tank. Drove it back home 650 miles not one problem. Drove it two or three times since then after sitting in snow for a few days.
Started it about a week ago to drive it up on two plastic ramps to access underneath - started just fine.
Demo'd the inside, only wires that were cut were the lights in the ceiling, which were taped afterwards. The back door deadbolt was disconnected temporarily to remove the wall panel, then reconnected. Went to move it out of the garage and engine will not turn.
All emergency exits are closed, no emergency buzzer. Jumped the battery, no luck.
Here is an awful video: the clicking is me turning the key. The click is coming from the electrical panel above the driver's seat that houses all emergency exit wiring. Does this mean anything?
Where can I start? I'm convinced it's an electrical problem...as it worked fine up until the demo.
Appreciate any ideas you all have!
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12-04-2019, 06:36 AM
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#2
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Ashtabula, Ohio
Posts: 1,494
Year: 1996
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E 7.3L
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Try moving the shifter to "N" and see if it starts?
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12-04-2019, 06:43 AM
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#3
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Skoolie
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 216
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: CAT 3126
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What does the service manual say about the battery indicator LED? I'm not used to seeing that particular indicator stay on like that.
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12-04-2019, 08:00 AM
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#4
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Moved to Zealand!
Posts: 1,517
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner FS-65
Engine: 7.2L Cat 3126 turbo diesel
Rated Cap: 71 passenger 30,000 gvwr
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Start with some basics:
Do you have a DVM (digital volt meter)? Even the 'free' one's from HF are more than adequate for automotive work...
What is your battery voltage at the batteries? Starter motor? etc...
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12-04-2019, 09:49 AM
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#5
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,995
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mullet
Try moving the shifter to "N" and see if it starts?
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Ha, I was going insane the other day trying to get my bus to start, eventually realized I had turned it off while it was still in "D".
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12-04-2019, 09:59 AM
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#6
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 400
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I would first check the battery, then double check the battery.
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12-04-2019, 09:04 PM
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#7
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New Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 7
Year: 2006
Coachwork: US Bus
Chassis: Ford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mullet
Try moving the shifter to "N" and see if it starts?
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Did try that - no luck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by banman
Start with some basics:
Do you have a DVM (digital volt meter)? Even the 'free' one's from HF are more than adequate for automotive work...
What is your battery voltage at the batteries? Starter motor? etc...
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I do, haven't checked any connections yet. When we went to jump the battery, it sparked, meaning something is pulling power. From what I've read, this is normal with buses?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACamper
I would first check the battery, then double check the battery.
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Should I check the connections or the voltage? I read some threads that talked about reconnecting all battery lines.
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12-04-2019, 09:08 PM
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#8
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New Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 7
Year: 2006
Coachwork: US Bus
Chassis: Ford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marceps
What does the service manual say about the battery indicator LED? I'm not used to seeing that particular indicator stay on like that.
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Manual says "Charging system: Illuminates when the battery is not charging properly."
Thanks for all your help so far.
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12-04-2019, 11:37 PM
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#9
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Skoolie
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 216
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: CAT 3126
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Don't jump start. Use a battery tender instead.
If the bus still doesn't turn over after topping off the battery with a tender, confirm the recommended cold-cranking-amps rating from the service manual, take the batteries to a battery shop, and request a CCA test. If test results are below the recommended rating, ask about the shop's warranty policies. Try to get them on the hook for six months minimum.
Quote:
From what I've read, this is normal with buses?
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Certainly ain't out of the ordinary.
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12-05-2019, 01:19 AM
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#10
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 578
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: MVP ER
Engine: CAT 3126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roscobus
I do, haven't checked any connections yet. When we went to jump the battery, it sparked, meaning something is pulling power. From what I've read, this is normal with buses?
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I find it happens frequently when jumping vehicles, generally I don't pay it much mind. More sparking can mean something is turning on or is still pulling power. A ton of sparks could be a dead short, but since this is not a burnt up Porsche we're trying to get out of park, I highly doubt that would be your issue
Quote:
Should I check the connections or the voltage? I read some threads that talked about reconnecting all battery lines.
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Do both, you can have perfectly fine voltage at your battery posts, but if the connections are loose or dirty then that good voltage won't make to your starter.
It would not be a bad idea to check if the starter is receiving power anyway on the chance that the starter went bad. And since it's a Ford, it may have an external solenoid mounted to the side of the engine compartment that sends power to the starter. I just had both go bad in my pickup, the solenoid a few weeks after the starter. The solenoid almost stranded me at a rest stop with the exact same symptoms, thankfully it made contact after a couple tries and I continued my trip with no further issues.
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12-05-2019, 06:40 AM
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#11
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,758
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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usually a roof hatch or emergency window wont prevent a start, but if the bus had a "vandalock" on the back or side emergency door to lock it, that lock has to UNLOCKED for the bus to start and run.. if the wires to said lock got cut then those will most likely be your culprit..
-Christopher
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12-05-2019, 06:50 AM
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#12
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
usually a roof hatch or emergency window wont prevent a start, but if the bus had a "vandalock" on the back or side emergency door to lock it, that lock has to UNLOCKED for the bus to start and run.. if the wires to said lock got cut then those will most likely be your culprit..
-Christopher
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THIS^
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12-05-2019, 08:43 AM
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#13
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roscobus
Should I check the connections or the voltage? I read some threads that talked about reconnecting all battery lines.
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The first thing I do is clean the terminals and terminal connections with a $4. brush or sandpaper.
Then if it won't start with a jump I short out the starter solenoid with a screw driver. If the starter won't go by shorting out I go back to the battery.
With a school bus you also have devices that will inhibit the start when doors are not closed, so if the starter starts by shorting but won't start from the ignition there is a good chance one of the doors are not closed properly.
Batteries can be tricky to trouble shoot.. Many people get good readings when they are bad and start looking at other things. If you can find a date on the battery it helps, a battery will generally last 3-4 years and will usually go out in the first part of winter IME.
Good luck keep us posted.
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12-05-2019, 09:46 AM
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#14
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New Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 7
Year: 2006
Coachwork: US Bus
Chassis: Ford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
usually a roof hatch or emergency window wont prevent a start, but if the bus had a "vandalock" on the back or side emergency door to lock it, that lock has to UNLOCKED for the bus to start and run.. if the wires to said lock got cut then those will most likely be your culprit..
-Christopher
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Here are some pics of the back deadbolt lock: https://imgur.com/a/v4oIe4R
I didn't consider the fact that it may not be grounded properly because the sheet of metal it's connected to is "floating". Am I thinking correct? I will go back today and try it out
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12-05-2019, 12:09 PM
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#15
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Picton,Ont, Can.
Posts: 1,956
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: GMC
Engine: Cat 3116
Rated Cap: 72
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Since batteries are in question here, where are you, the climate?
Do we even know what kind of vehicle, didn't watch the video?
Please fill out your profile in more detail.
This ain't rocket science but you have to know your bus pretty well to enjoy it.
Not part of the welcoming committee but welcome and good luck.
John
__________________
Question everything!
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12-05-2019, 01:19 PM
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#16
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,995
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roscobus
Here are some pics of the back deadbolt lock: https://imgur.com/a/v4oIe4R
I didn't consider the fact that it may not be grounded properly because the sheet of metal it's connected to is "floating". Am I thinking correct? I will go back today and try it out
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On my bus, I bypassed the deadbolt by connecting the wire leading to it directly to ground (a screw run into the body). If your deadbolt is just attached to a free-floating piece of metal, that will not work (i.e. it will not complete the circuit and the bus will not start) regardless of whether the deadbolt is open or closed.
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12-11-2019, 07:17 PM
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#17
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: SoCal
Posts: 44
Year: 2003
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: MicroBird
Engine: 7.3L powerstroke
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Is nobody going to address the "Elephant in the Room"??
Did I hear right? You are driving a 11,000lb front heavy beast up on a PLASTIC Ramp.. so you can crawl under it??
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12-11-2019, 07:24 PM
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#18
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddmaxx
Is nobody going to address the "Elephant in the Room"??
Did I hear right? You are driving a 11,000lb front heavy beast up on a PLASTIC Ramp.. so you can crawl under it??
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Some are 12k capacity, though I would still use jack stands. When I was racing, the 4 legged stands always got an 1/8" plate welded to the bottom to make them work on hot asphalt.
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12-11-2019, 07:24 PM
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#19
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddmaxx
Is nobody going to address the "Elephant in the Room"??
Did I hear right? You are driving a 11,000lb front heavy beast up on a PLASTIC Ramp.. so you can crawl under it??
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My rhino ramps are rated for 6000 lbs each.
I think the 11k figure is probably closer to the GVWR.
Its safe. Pushing it towards the limits but they're likely to be rated pretty conservatively anyhow for legality/liability.
All fears could be assuaged with some cribbing.
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12-11-2019, 07:51 PM
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#20
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Swansboro,NC
Posts: 2,973
Year: 86
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford B700
Engine: 8.2
Rated Cap: 60 bodies
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almost everything that has a safety is rated for half of what it can handle by patented design with the material that the company sent in for a test patent.
does not mean that after they got there patent that they didnt outsource for cheaper and quicker production after patented.
i would strongly adhere to the ratings of any vehicle ramp and use a form of base plate for it and even on a normal concrete or asphalt drive and definite on gravel and grass.
dont wait until its unsafe to think of safety
plan ahead because THE COST COULD BE YOUR LIFE.
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