Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-28-2020, 09:20 PM   #41
Bus Nut
 
Joe45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 459
Year: 2004
Engine: 7.3L Navistar T444e Diesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON View Post
Sent you a PM with some specs comparing the 31 with your original 8Ds. The bus you have is equivalent to an International 4700/4900 series truck, which was available with the DT530, a bit bigger than your DT466 and likely to have higher-capacity batteries. However, comparing Interstate's 31s to their own 8D-HDs, there is a 28% difference in cranking amperage, in the 8D's favor. I wouldn't trust a 31 in that application. It will fit, but will be weak and under-powered for the load. Cranking speed is everything with a diesel, especially in cold weather.

I believe the 8Ds are going to be as heavy duty as you get without going to the threaded semi-style terminals I've seen on the Class 8 trucks I've driven.



Got the PM.


Thanks!


I called the dealer where I got the bus. He said that two 31s wired up together would be enough, and three would be more than enough but good to have. He said from what he's seen, that;s what even schools are switching to because the 8Ds don;t last nearly as long and are so heavy to move when needed.


WHat do you think?
Joe45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2020, 09:31 PM   #42
Bus Crazy
 
CHEESE_WAGON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,302
Year: None
Coachwork: None
Chassis: None
Engine: None
Rated Cap: None
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe45 View Post
Got the PM.

Thanks!

I called the dealer where I got the bus. He said that two 31s wired up together would be enough, and three would be more than enough but good to have. He said from what he's seen, that;s what even schools are switching to because the 8Ds don;t last nearly as long and are so heavy to move when needed.

WHat do you think?


Sounds azz-backward to me. I always figured more cranking amperage capacity meant less discharge, meaning longer battery life. Sounds more to me like they're justifying cheaping out and using more 31s to do the work of two 8Ds. They are more expensive @ $251 retail, but logically, if a battery has higher cranking capacity to start with, it should last longer because it is less likely to be too weak at colder temps. Just my $0.02
__________________

"CHEESE WAGON" <anomaly.va@gmail.com> Suggested reading: (5 threads)
CHEESE_WAGON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2020, 09:33 PM   #43
Bus Nut
 
Joe45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 459
Year: 2004
Engine: 7.3L Navistar T444e Diesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON View Post


Sounds azz-backward to me. I always figured more cranking amperage capacity meant less discharge, meaning longer battery life. Sounds more to me like they're justifying cheaping out and using more 31s to do the work of two 8Ds. They are more expensive @ $251 retail, but logically, if a battery has higher cranking capacity to start with, it should last longer because it is less likely to be too weak at colder temps. Just my $0.02



I know nothing about batteries so my brain hurts.
Joe45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2020, 09:36 PM   #44
Bus Crazy
 
CHEESE_WAGON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,302
Year: None
Coachwork: None
Chassis: None
Engine: None
Rated Cap: None
I'm not going to say it won't work, just seems to me introducing more opportunity for issues... More cables, more batteries, more cells = more to check when there is a problem.
__________________

"CHEESE WAGON" <anomaly.va@gmail.com> Suggested reading: (5 threads)
CHEESE_WAGON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2020, 09:44 PM   #45
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,212
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: IH
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 14
I haven't driven a vehicle with an 8D in ... I can't remember how long. We're talking off-road mine truck (24 volt system, a pair of 8D's in series). Every truck and bus battery box I've looked in for the last 20 years had Group 31's with one exception - one old Peterbilt had a pair of Group 31's and a pair of 6-volts (in series) (i never did remove those 6-volt batteries, it ran on a pair of group 31's for as long as I had it). A T444e will work just fine with two. A DT466 (and it's brothers) will be fine with three, and many big trucks use four.
When new, one or two batteries will start these engines, but with time and age, batteries slowly lose CCA, and taxing one or two with the heavy loads of starting big engines will kill them much faster than spreading the load over 3 or 4. So it's done for battery longevity and improved cold weather starts.
Brad_SwiftFur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2020, 09:46 PM   #46
Bus Crazy
 
CHEESE_WAGON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,302
Year: None
Coachwork: None
Chassis: None
Engine: None
Rated Cap: None
Many hands making light work, I guess that's one point in its favor...
__________________

"CHEESE WAGON" <anomaly.va@gmail.com> Suggested reading: (5 threads)
CHEESE_WAGON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2020, 09:55 PM   #47
Bus Nut
 
Joe45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 459
Year: 2004
Engine: 7.3L Navistar T444e Diesel
That makes sense. Thank you!


Maybe I can start with two 31s and see how that works. If there is a problem within warranty, I will swap them out for new ones and add two more. If they last the warranty, then it should be good.


Not sure if that logic is, logical, or just my ignorance justifying it.



Do you all think adding a solar trickle charger will help keep them alive longer?


I plan on driving the bus for about 30 miles round trip at least once per month, just to make sure everything stays moveable and alive. Still, maybe a trickle charge will help?


The gentleman from where I bought the bus says he uses one 31 with a trickle charger and has had no problems. But then he has a much older bus.
Joe45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2020, 08:08 AM   #48
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,212
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: IH
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 14
I think you'll be just fine with a pair. A solar charger can't hurt, assuming its output is in the 1-2 amp range. Better ones (recommended) will have circuitry to adjust charge based on battery SOC (State of Charge) to prevent overcharging.
I let my bus sit for several months without a charger and when I went to move it, it fired up with no problems. I once fired up an old IH 9.0L on a single battery (didn't even have the nuts on the battery terminals), but that's an older engine with no electronics. Yours, and mine, have computers and glow plugs that need a fair amount of current to work before even turning the starter.
I don't think as a matter of course that 3 batteries will be *NECESSARY* for you. Some school districts may order their buses that way for very cold weather operation (sometimes mandated by state/local regulations or district policy), or reserve capacity during stop-and-go operation, or wheelchair lifts, or battery longevity. It is my belief, however, that at some point there's simply too much of a good thing. For example, in a multiple battery bank, when one takes a puke (dead cell is a good example), one dead battery will bring down all the others wired to it (as they are essentially trying to recharge the dead one). More than once have I removed 3 or 4 batteries from a non-starting truck, had 'em tested, found one dead, the others still "good" (at various levels of health). However many big companies don't bother with questionable batteries, they often replace all at once because non-starting trucks are a much bigger expense and headache than $4-500 worth of batteries.
Brad_SwiftFur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2020, 03:29 PM   #49
Bus Nut
 
Joe45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 459
Year: 2004
Engine: 7.3L Navistar T444e Diesel
I'm going to go with Nappa. Two 1100 CCA batteries for $400. Sounds like a good deal to me.

Have to wait a few weeks because we're a little tight right now though.
Hopefully will be running soon!
Joe45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2020, 05:42 PM   #50
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,212
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: IH
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 14
$400 for a pair of Group 31's? Good heavens, that's way too expensive for me. I'd shop around for a much more reasonable price, last time I bought those they were in the $70-80 range, each.
Brad_SwiftFur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2020, 06:41 PM   #51
Bus Nut
 
Joe45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 459
Year: 2004
Engine: 7.3L Navistar T444e Diesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur View Post
$400 for a pair of Group 31's? Good heavens, that's way too expensive for me. I'd shop around for a much more reasonable price, last time I bought those they were in the $70-80 range, each.



There are definitely cheaper ones, but they have a LOT lower CCAs. As the CCAs go up, apparently so does the price.


Has anyone seen any with 1100 CCA or near that for less?
Joe45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2020, 09:48 PM   #52
Bus Geek
 
musigenesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 5,005
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
Now I'm curious to know what sort of batteries I have. I just bought what the Autozone guy told me to buy - and I doubt he was a cheesewagon sort.
__________________
Rusty 87 build thread
musigenesis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2020, 10:41 PM   #53
Bus Nut
 
Joe45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 459
Year: 2004
Engine: 7.3L Navistar T444e Diesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by musigenesis View Post
Now I'm curious to know what sort of batteries I have. I just bought what the Autozone guy told me to buy - and I doubt he was a cheesewagon sort.



That would be good to know, as well as how your rig is starting and the condition of those batteries as time passes.
Joe45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2020, 01:04 AM   #54
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,212
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: IH
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 14
Just get the less expensive ones. You don't need 1100 CCA's and I'm doubtful it will affect battery life enough to justify double the cost. The T444e will start on a single battery (assuming it's fairly new and fully charged) but two batteries will last much longer since you're not taxing them to the limit each time you start. I bought the El Cheapo whatever-CCA group 31 the battery shop had (I want to say in the 700 CCA range?) and they have served me just fine.
Brad_SwiftFur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2020, 10:38 AM   #55
Bus Nut
 
Joe45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 459
Year: 2004
Engine: 7.3L Navistar T444e Diesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur View Post
Just get the less expensive ones. You don't need 1100 CCA's and I'm doubtful it will affect battery life enough to justify double the cost. The T444e will start on a single battery (assuming it's fairly new and fully charged) but two batteries will last much longer since you're not taxing them to the limit each time you start. I bought the El Cheapo whatever-CCA group 31 the battery shop had (I want to say in the 700 CCA range?) and they have served me just fine.



Did you mean to get the IN-expensive ones?

I'm going to do that: get some inexpensive ones at Wmart. Right now I just need to start it up and drive it to where I will keep working on it, and drive it about once per month to keep everything in shape.



Again, thank you all!
Joe45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2020, 10:39 AM   #56
Bus Nut
 
Joe45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 459
Year: 2004
Engine: 7.3L Navistar T444e Diesel
Anyone recommend a trickle charger for the battery? Something that keeps it charged up when sitting around...
Joe45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2020, 10:55 AM   #57
Bus Nut
 
Joe45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 459
Year: 2004
Engine: 7.3L Navistar T444e Diesel
So far, all the Group 31 batteries I find are in the $200 range each. One was $110+
Can't find the "El Cheapo" ones for some reason. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
If anyone knows of the cheaper ones, please let me know.


Thank you!
Joe45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2020, 11:51 AM   #58
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Central Alabama
Posts: 188
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC/2000
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 12-valve
Rated Cap: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe45 View Post
So far, all the Group 31 batteries I find are in the $200 range each. One was $110+
Can't find the "El Cheapo" ones for some reason. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
If anyone knows of the cheaper ones, please let me know.


Thank you!
Do you have an O'Reilly nearby? I use two Group 31-5T, 950 CCA for the DT466E which is plenty of starting power for 125.99 each. Your cable ends will work with the threaded post that these batteries have. Looks like someone used a post adapter a some point to install the 8D batteries currently in the bus.
BamaBus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2020, 12:28 PM   #59
Bus Nut
 
Joe45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 459
Year: 2004
Engine: 7.3L Navistar T444e Diesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaBus View Post
Do you have an O'Reilly nearby? I use two Group 31-5T, 950 CCA for the DT466E which is plenty of starting power for 125.99 each. Your cable ends will work with the threaded post that these batteries have. Looks like someone used a post adapter a some point to install the 8D batteries currently in the bus.



Thanks!
I will look into those.
Joe45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2020, 01:54 PM   #60
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 2,257
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
You have a battery bay that makes me envious. A size like that could allow a person to put their starting and house bank all in one place.

You have connectors that bolt onto threaded posts on the end of your cables, then they used battery post-terminal adapters to connect to the 8d's. Group 31 batteries can come with either posts or threaded terminals, so choose the threaded terminals and eliminate the adapter.

A pair of 31's should be fine for your bus, or you can go with a single 8d. I really doubt the need for 2 8d start batteries, let alone a 3rd in a remote location. Most trucks/buses are going to 31's because they only require 1 mechanic to move. We stock 1000 CCA group 31 units on the shelf at the shop, you can find less cca units for around 100 bucks from places like rural king.

To go with the 31's, you'll also need a set of lug to lug battery cables. They should be available at most parts stores.

Your current charger is fine. When it's on 100%, that means it's up to it's shutoff voltage and no longer pushing amperage. The 50 amp start is good for small cars and equipment, but you won't start anything larger with that. Also, the 10 second timer doesn't start counting typically until the 50 amps is being supplied. Like when the vehicle is cranking. That is, unless the batteries are stone dead and using a 50 amp charge rate.
__________________
My build: The Silver Bullet https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/p...llet-9266.html
Booyah45828 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×