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Old 02-12-2018, 03:26 AM   #21
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The Goshen bus bodies are not the worst and not the best in the commercial bus business.

That particular bus is built on what is known as a rail chassis. In the past the most common chassis was the GM P-30/40 chassis which was sold to Workhorse which has since been sold again. Your particular bus, or at least the one in the pictures, appears to be on the Freightliner Custom Chassis.

Whether it is the Workhorse or Freightliner chassis the biggest challenge is going to be staying under the GVWR of the chassis. Most of those buses were really pushing the envelope when it came to the GVWR of them. The Freightliners were better than the P-30/40 chassis but not by much.

The biggest issue with all of the white buses is that most of the bodies are not made of metal. Most are made of a composite sandwich with steel reinforcement inside of the sandwich. Since many of the bus body OEM's are owned by parent companies that own RV OEM's it shouldn't surprise you when I tell you the construction technique is not that different from something like a Winnebago. Water is the white bus enemy. With all of the seams in the roof and joints in the sides where the windows are located the wonder isn't that they leak but that they don't leak more than they do.

Now I will admit that living on the wet side of the mountains in WA state rain is a bigger problem than it is most any other place. But every used white bus I have owned, tried to sell, driven, and/or considered buying leaked to a greater or lesser amount. On the van/cut-away chassis buses the biggest location for leaks is between the top of the windshield and the joint between the front cap and the bus roof. The twisting and jouncing as you go down the road between the marriage between the chassis and the body usually results in a very nasty and ugly divorce. It is usually evidenced by seeing daylight between the top of the windshield header and the bottom of the front cap of the bus body or continual water leaks just behind the driver. On larger buses like the one you are considering the joint between the roof and the front cap is where it will leak the most.

Yes those leaks can be fixed, albeit only temporary. But in a bus that is known to be going down the road soon to another owner you can bet the mechanics didn't spend any more time than absolutely necessary keeping the roof from leaking.

As the roof leaks it can get in between the inside and outside skins and down inside the composite sandwich. The water can cause the sandwich to delaminate and/or rust the steel reinforcement.

It is very possible to find used buses like you are considering that are not full of water.

Another issue in regards to converting is the windows. On a bus with the big windows like the one in the pictures you really can't skin over some windows and cut out a new window. With so few upright supports compromising any of them can ruin the structural integrity of the bus.

I know there are a few on this forum that have converted white buses and have been successful doing it. If you understand the challenges a white bus might be the right choice for you.

I suppose if the price were low enough that if things didn't work out you could sell the engine and transmission for what you paid for the running bus you might not lose out on the deal.

I just personally would not want to own another white commercial bus.

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Old 02-12-2018, 04:32 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
Oh, I know you know, Benny. Just so everyone is comparing apples to pineapples.

Cummins 5.9L is available all the way up to 325 hp.

sauce
Pretty sure 230-250 is as high as you'll see in a bus.
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Old 02-13-2018, 01:15 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
Pretty sure 230-250 is as high as you'll see in a bus.
...and the Cummins ISB goes to 325 HP & 750 ft/lbs of twist.


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sauce




.
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:26 AM   #24
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...and the Cummins ISB goes to 325 HP & 750 ft/lbs of twist.


Attachment 19094


sauce




.

Right. But what ratings have you seen in school buses??
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:57 AM   #25
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Right. But what ratings have you seen in school buses??

We gotta know- what DID Cummins do to you personally that you dump on them every opportunity?

Have you owned one yourself? I currently own 3 Cummins and don't see the downside.

Seriously curious here.

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Old 02-13-2018, 08:11 AM   #26
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We gotta know- what DID Cummins do to you personally that you dump on them every opportunity?

Have you owned one yourself? I currently own 3 Cummins and don't see the downside.

Seriously curious here.

What the hell are you talking about? I tell newbs to look for Cummins all the damn time!

Find me one quote where I'm bashing Cummins.

All I was/am doing was participating in a conversation about HP ratings in school buses.
My favorite engine for a school bus is a Cummins 8.3. I've traditionally been a Navistar guy, but their QC goes down dramatically after about 99 or 2000. I rag on my own bus' manufacturing defect. Its an International.
Engines I have no qualms bashing on are Mercedes, Cat C7 and 3116, gas engines in full size buses, VT365/Ford6.0's, Any Navistar product made after 2004, and DD 8.2's.
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:25 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
What the hell are you talking about? I tell newbs to look for Cummins all the damn time!

Find me one quote where I'm bashing Cummins.

All I was/am doing was participating in a conversation about HP ratings in school buses.
My favorite engine for a school bus is a Cummins 8.3. I've traditionally been a Navistar guy, but their QC goes down dramatically after about 99 or 2000. I rag on my own bus' manufacturing defect. Its an International.
Engines I have no qualms bashing on are Mercedes, Cat C7 and 3116, gas engines in full size buses, VT365/Ford6.0's, Any Navistar product made after 2004, and DD 8.2's.
Lol. You dump on the 5.9L every chance you get.

Have you ever personally owned a 5.9L or any cummins?
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:36 AM   #28
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Lol. You dump on the 5.9L every chance you get.

Have you ever personally owned a 5.9L or any cummins?
WHEN have I "dumped" on 5.9's???
They're fine, just as mediocre as a 444e, but I'd take a 5.9 over the 444E. I'm the high bidder on a bus with a 5.9 right now.
Invent whatever you want, but its pretty rude to put words into my mouth, so please provide links, quotes, whatever ya "got on me".
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:40 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
The Goshen bus bodies are not the worst and not the best in the commercial bus business.

That particular bus is built on what is known as a rail chassis. In the past the most common chassis was the GM P-30/40 chassis which was sold to Workhorse which has since been sold again. Your particular bus, or at least the one in the pictures, appears to be on the Freightliner Custom Chassis.

Whether it is the Workhorse or Freightliner chassis the biggest challenge is going to be staying under the GVWR of the chassis. Most of those buses were really pushing the envelope when it came to the GVWR of them. The Freightliners were better than the P-30/40 chassis but not by much.

The biggest issue with all of the white buses is that most of the bodies are not made of metal. Most are made of a composite sandwich with steel reinforcement inside of the sandwich. Since many of the bus body OEM's are owned by parent companies that own RV OEM's it shouldn't surprise you when I tell you the construction technique is not that different from something like a Winnebago. Water is the white bus enemy. With all of the seams in the roof and joints in the sides where the windows are located the wonder isn't that they leak but that they don't leak more than they do.

Now I will admit that living on the wet side of the mountains in WA state rain is a bigger problem than it is most any other place. But every used white bus I have owned, tried to sell, driven, and/or considered buying leaked to a greater or lesser amount. On the van/cut-away chassis buses the biggest location for leaks is between the top of the windshield and the joint between the front cap and the bus roof. The twisting and jouncing as you go down the road between the marriage between the chassis and the body usually results in a very nasty and ugly divorce. It is usually evidenced by seeing daylight between the top of the windshield header and the bottom of the front cap of the bus body or continual water leaks just behind the driver. On larger buses like the one you are considering the joint between the roof and the front cap is where it will leak the most.

Yes those leaks can be fixed, albeit only temporary. But in a bus that is known to be going down the road soon to another owner you can bet the mechanics didn't spend any more time than absolutely necessary keeping the roof from leaking.

As the roof leaks it can get in between the inside and outside skins and down inside the composite sandwich. The water can cause the sandwich to delaminate and/or rust the steel reinforcement.

It is very possible to find used buses like you are considering that are not full of water.

Another issue in regards to converting is the windows. On a bus with the big windows like the one in the pictures you really can't skin over some windows and cut out a new window. With so few upright supports compromising any of them can ruin the structural integrity of the bus.

I know there are a few on this forum that have converted white buses and have been successful doing it. If you understand the challenges a white bus might be the right choice for you.

I suppose if the price were low enough that if things didn't work out you could sell the engine and transmission for what you paid for the running bus you might not lose out on the deal.

I just personally would not want to own another white commercial bus.
Cowlitz- what's the highest HP rating seen in school buses on routes?
Seems even discussing real world HP ratings is considered "dumping" on these engines...
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:02 AM   #30
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Cowlitz- what's the highest HP rating seen in school buses on routes?
Seems even discussing real world HP ratings is considered "dumping" on these engines...
Horsepower. Lol. Anyone that knows anything about diesel engines will tell you torque is the Standard by which to measure.

So, you never owned a Cummins. Fair enough. Try one- it might surprise you.

At least we all agree that the venerable Cummins ISB is available up to 325 gut-wrenching horsepower OUTSIDE of Ram pickups.

hint: It's more about the transmission.
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:06 AM   #31
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Dude you're turning Troll really fast.

I KNOW about torque... But the conversation was discussing HP ratings.
Why are you twisting this SO HARD???

You don't have to preach to me about transmissions. I'm the one ragging on the at545 all the time. I've had two of them.
I've driven PLENTY of yard trucks, pickups, and equipment with 5.9's and ridden in enough buses with 5.9's to have a SOLID opinion about them. My opinion of them isn't negative, despite your best efforts to put those words in my mouth.

You've always seemed like a smart, funny, decent guy to me. Whats got you so combative and argumentative this morning?
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:10 AM   #32
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No idea where this is coming from. Never heard ECCB "dump" on Cummins(?). They are my personal favorite so I think I would have noticed. There are pros & cons for most engines and I think he has been very realistic in his evaluations.
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:11 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
Dude you're turning Troll really fast.

I KNOW about torque... But the conversation was discussing HP ratings.
Why are you twisting this SO HARD???

You don't have to preach to me about transmissions. I'm the one ragging on the at545 all the time. I've had two of them.
I've driven PLENTY of yard trucks, pickups, and equipment with 5.9's and ridden in enough buses with 5.9's to have a SOLID opinion about them. My opinion of them isn't negative, despite your best efforts to put those words in my mouth.

You've always seemed like a smart, funny, decent guy to me. Whats got you so combative and argumentative this morning?
I'm sorry- I thought you could discuss engines without feel-feels getting hurt.

I usually provide links and sources to support my claim. Not sure if you bother to read, I realize you post a lot.

Preach about transmissions...You really enjoy the last word.
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:20 AM   #34
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:21 AM   #35
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:24 AM   #36
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When does one search come to an end when looking for "the one"?

I feel like I'm reliving buying a home all over again! So basically I've come across a bus, not a school bus, but a passenger bus. And not a transit (city bus), but one of a Freightliner chassis with a Goshen body.

While trying to explore our options outside of school buses, we came across this one located in the states which will require myself to fly out and drive back home up in New Hampshire.

My significant other and I love the style of the bus in question. It's higher than the transit city buses, but not as high as a regular school bus when it comes to ground clearance.

Engine? Well while it may not be a DT466 with a Allison MD3060 transmission, it's rocking a Cummins 5.9l and a Allison 2400 series transmission with the miles under 150,000.

While air brakes could of been equipped, this one did not have it. While it was on my list of things to have, I had to compromise.

Wheel chair equipped and belly storage were a nice plus.

GVWR is 26,500lbs. 17,500 Rear - 9,000 Front.

Length - 31-34FT.

Negotiated price $3600

Waiting to hear back from the dealer regarding some questions, but if everything checks out and looks great in person we might just bite the bullet.

For the purpose of others on the forum recommending it, the pictures I'm posting are not of the exact bus, but match closely to what we're looking at.

Would anyone see challenges with this style bus? Without knowing dimensions of the belly storage, I'm thinking the install of a generator would be a problem. Fresh and grey water would be inside the bus like most conversions.





I can tell you all about installing a generator [emoji6]
Long story short, it can be done on that bus without sacrificing too much real estate. I wouldn't let that be an issue with deciding to purchase.

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Old 02-13-2018, 09:25 AM   #37
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That paint job sure look nice, Rusty. Sure is refreshing to see someone do it right. The effort you put in shows, its impressive.

No feelings hurt here, you just put words into my mouth and then went full Nat_ster on me there.

Why does it matter if I post a lot? I've been on this forum in good times and bad. I like this forum. I like the discussions on here. I like YOU when you're not having your monthly.

How is it that suddenly one of my favorite forum members is hell bent on having a tit for tat squabble about something I've never said or done?

Can't we all just get along?
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:27 AM   #38
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We have very different use cases but for mine a generator is something I want to avoid. They are great for easy replenishable power, but the negatives for me are having to deal with a second fuel and the noise when running. Part of successful boondocking is not drawing attention to yourself or being a nuisance!

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Old 02-13-2018, 09:39 AM   #39
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We have very different use cases but for mine a generator is something I want to avoid. They are great for easy replenishable power, but the negatives for me are having to deal with a second fuel and the noise when running. Part of successful boondocking is not drawing attention to yourself or being a nuisance!

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Have you tried one of the little hondas? they're pretty quiet, and handy as hell.
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:44 AM   #40
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I have seen them and they are pretty attractive but I'm going the route of using alternator as a backup power source. I already run the motor for air conditioning, and I just upgraded my alternator!

Using backup power to supplement a build designed for solar is a very different than than building something that implies ubiquitous power. We can go several cloudy days in a row already but beyond that we start getting stingy.

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