De-Bouncing

[bus-bro]

Ride in the front?

[wmah]

I might be one of the few who is just used to it that I don't notice how bad it really is. A suggestion I'll give is to add more weight in the back.

Such as a 500+ pound block of concrete between the frame rails. We did this to a transshuttle bus (tc1000) cause it didn't have enough weight in the back for traction on snow and ice. By doing this it did make it ride a little smoother. We got one of those big plastic mixing boxes and filled it up with concrete and jacked it up with angle iron underneath to hold it up. The only draw back with this in my case cause I have a shorty and my dump tank is in the back between the frame rails so I can't do it like that. You could always remove a couple leafs from the rear. I think there were a couple here somewhere that did that.

[the_experience03]

My riding area is in front while I have 55 gallons of freshwater and usually some diesel and/or veggie in the back. Yeah, it rides rough, but it's tough and leaf springs can't leak like air suspension.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by macgyver

...I plan on putting my batteries towards the rear just because of this...-Mac

That's gonna require a rather lengthy run of massive diameter cable to charge 'em though, isn't it? What are you planning on using? (Just curious.)

[delbertinie]

how about adding some airbags to the rear this should soften the ride look at low riddder magazines to find them cheap an air chuck valve like with the old air shocks should work fine and cheap. To prevent side sway have one fill line for each one. I know firestone has a terrible reputation now but they are still the industry standard for air bags and the only one I trust because they impregnated with stell like steel bellted radials.
of the the small air bags you can get a pair that will handle up to 15000 lbs apiece for under $ 300.00
the less load you expect the to handle the cheaper they are.
I use them in a tow truck no problems. smooth ride even when towing.
They even reduce body roll in cornering, this will help keep your plates on the kitchen tabel too

To get a car like ride out them ruduce the amont of leaves in your springs until you get the desired ride. If you can fabricate with steel and descent engineer you can make your mounts realitvely easily.
60 to 80 lbs of air pressure is usually about the most comfortable ride.
The only reason you should add more load carring capability than you need is due to the fact that when you reduce air pressure to soften the ride you lose some load caring ability as well.
about 15% more than your gwr is more than adequate.
I am building my bus with trailing arms the lower arms will be triagulated (to elimnated side sway ),air bags, sway bars and no springs period !will ride just like a car
even if you blow a bag they will not collasp completely.
If your wondering they are safe, big rigs use them everyday
Dale

[GoneCamping]

Buy a rear engine bus!! The back end doesn't bounce on them, and from I can see the front rides pretty good too!!

[the_experience03]

Originally Posted by delbertinie

how about adding some airbags to the rear this should soften the ride look at low riddder magazines to find them cheap an air chuck valve like with the old air shocks should work fine and cheap. To prevent side sway have one fill line for each one. I know firestone has a terrible reputation now but they are still the industry standard for air bags and the only one I trust because they impregnated with stell like steel bellted radials.
of the the small air bags you can get a pair that will handle up to 15000 lbs apiece for under $ 300.00
the less load you expect the to handle the cheaper they are.
I use them in a tow truck no problems. smooth ride even when towing.
They even reduce body roll in cornering, this will help keep your plates on the kitchen tabel too

To get a car like ride out them ruduce the amont of leaves in your springs until you get the desired ride. If you can fabricate with steel and descent engineer you can make your mounts realitvely easily.
60 to 80 lbs of air pressure is usually about the most comfortable ride.
The only reason you should add more load carring capability than you need is due to the fact that when you reduce air pressure to soften the ride you lose some load caring ability as well.
about 15% more than your gwr is more than adequate.
I am building my bus with trailing arms the lower arms will be triagulated (to elimnated side sway ),air bags, sway bars and no springs period !will ride just like a car
even if you blow a bag they will not collasp completely.
If your wondering they are safe, big rigs use them everyday
Dale

But MAN that's a lot of fabrication.

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=581470

[trx]

Originally Posted by pjespers

Are there any special tricks to removing leafs from the springs? Smaller U-bolts, etc.?

Basically you need to take out the center bolt. That's what holds all the leafs together. Getting the springs out is the fun part. Been there, done that. I also added helper air springs and yes, there was some fabrication but it wasn't too bad. I had to relocate brake lines and remove the shocks. I never made new shock mounts because I don't have any bouncing issues. Removing the springs was the hardest. You'll probably want to just cut your old u-bolts out (cut-off wheel in a 4" grinder works well) and buy new ones. I could probably remove a leaf or two from my setup but I don't want to go through the process of removing the springs again. Mine seems to ride OK so I'm leaving it alone. Of course I'm always in the drivers seat and It's got a pretty decent ride up there.

My spring replacement: http://trx.punknet.org/gallery2/main.ph ... emId=10496
Air springs: http://trx.punknet.org/gallery2/main.ph ... emId=10529

Chad

[delbertinie]

guys I worked at an frame and aligment shope for big rigs when I was in my twenties, and one thing that I forgot to mention is( even If you get your u bolts off in one piece you should not reuse them.!) reason being they stretch when they are torgued. reusing them over strecthes them and it is a good possibility that they will break. for about $20.00 to $30.00 a set its just not worth the risk.
The way I remove leaf springs is as follow, put jack on each frame rail just ahead of the leaf springs. now that the rear end is off the ground, take 2 roll around floor jacks and support axle between leafs springs and the ring and pinion. Jack up equally to releave tension on leaf springs.
PUT SAFETY CHAIN AROUND FRAME AND AXLE. THIS IS MUST. cut u bolts jack rear up a little more a another chain racket strap or bungie on a pipe over frame rails to keep pinion angle constant is a real help too. there is a bolt in the center of leaf spring to hold them together. remove from each side this is a hardend bolt if threads are corrdid use a wire brush on a grinder quick easy lube and remove. tap bolts out you must buy new or reuse stock ones. special bolts obviously so take care of them. remove clamps around springs remove desired springs reassemble in reverse. with new ubolts if I have not stressed this enough. its not pretty when they break.
one final trick try putting thin strips of rubbuer between springs when reassembling old bicycle tubes work great.
on rvs where it matters It will help eliminate spring noise.
hope this helps Dale

[delbertinie]

the easiest way to fab new brackests for airbags is to reinforce frame directly center above rear end use a plumb bob to find frame point in center of axle. . make a plate to mount bag to axle, mount plate to frame, make mount to go inbetween u- bolts when reinstalling from spring removal . bag obviously goes between top of axle to frame/
bolt air bags to mounts add air an go.
If you need ideas look at low rider magazines truckin ect. heck you could buy some of their premade mounts and reinforce but more expensive than necessarry. us scrap steel or spend a twenty at a metal supplier anf do it yourself ya more time but you get what you want. a foot by a foot and a 1/2 of 3/8 plate would be more than enough even over kill you could probably use 1/4 but I would drather over do it and know I'm safe. If you have metal bandsaw or go to somebodies shop just cut out your basic shapes and weld together.

yeah its work but I feel good when I accomplish something myself.
dale

[the_experience03]

So now I'm confused. Are people talking about removing leafs and substituting air bags to make up the difference in capacity (while giving some adjustability) or are people talking about swapping to a totally linked and bagged setup?

Just running fewer leafs with bags wouldn't be hard to do at all (relatively speaking), but I have to wonder just how much of a difference it would make. If you remove leafs you will lose ride height. To gain this ride height back you would have to add pressure to the air bags equal to the load the removed leafsprings were carrying. You would have the same spring rate essentially and the same ride. I think it would be slightly better, however, bucause you would have reduced friction anyway.

Now if you're talking about fabbing up links and air ride for a bus, have at it. That's where I draw the line. I built the front and rear suspensions under my truck in the garage. I can handle something Toyota sized, but a bus and I would just get too nervous.

[the_experience03]

I think blocks would be a BAAAADDDDD idea in a bus. You could, however, go the zero-rate add-a-leaf method so popular with the offroad crowd. Basically you need to take one or two of those leafs you removed and lop them off so that they are only as long as your spring perches. Make sure you bolt them back in with the centerpin and tighten the u-bolts back up if they are brand new and have only had the initial torquing. If you've had them for a while and have already retorqued the u-bolts like you should after about 500 miles it's time for a new set of bolts.

[delbertinie]

if you lost an 1/2 inch of ride heigth a square piece of steel 1/2 thick and a drill press wil do the trick. just take the spring mount with the four wholes for the ubolts as a guide mark whole drill. put spacer in put ubolts through and retorque instant ride heigth adjustment.

[trx]

What type of 'bounce' does your bus have? Is it like the springs are stiff and the suspension doesn't like to move. Or is the bounce because they are soft and the back-end keeps going up and down after you go over a bump? I'm assuming it's the first but want to make sure we are all thinking of the same type of 'bounce'.

Both of the above methods for raising your bus back up would probably work (although I've never heard of using the u-bolts to center a lift block). Using cut-off leaf springs (or a steel plate) and bolt them in the pack would probably be the safest. Typically lift blocks aren't bolted to the pack, they look like this:



I've seen light-duty trucks with lift blocks from the factory, I haven't seen any on medium duty.

Chad

[trx]

How bad is it over the rear axle? If the ride is pretty good there then there may not be much more you can do for the ride in the back because of how the overhang magnifies even the smallest bumps. I've never ridden in the back of my bus (heck I've never ridden anywhere but in the drivers seat!) but even with my 5000lb Scout in the back I think it can get rough back there. I've had to repair some things back there because of that. I ride a fairly new rear-engine air-ride coach bus to work and the back row (only a couple feet behind the rear axle) on that is more 'lively' then the other areas of the bus.

Chad

[paul iossi]

removing leves and installing spacers is the most cost effective fix, if ride is the priority air ride is the way to go, look for an air suspension at the salvage yard to swap in, or remove all but the 2 main leafs used to locate the axle and maintain pinion angle, add spacers to regain ride height and then add airbags to carry the weight. Firestone industrial online publishes their design and engineering data that you can use to make a system or call the local independant truck parts house and have someone help you choose a bag that will carry the required weight, fit the available space and is a popular,readily available and econemical choice, ie; what bag do they sell the most of, it's probably the cheapest and easiest to find if you ever need a replacement. the bags can be plumbed to an onboard air system with a self leveling valve assy, oryoucould set them up like air shocks and just add air to adjust ride height and load.don't forget a good set of shocks to control the spring action

[delbertinie]

hey how about an update
made any decisions, or changes yet
????????
dale

[delbertinie]

well good luck hope it works out
dale

[jdd]

hey guys im not a bus expert but i know a bit about trucks [similar ] let me toss a few things out there ive learned first hand first the spring carry the weight the shocks control the bounce if the springs are too heavy more bounce but has any one tried making a dual actually 4 shock set up like they do on 4x4s probably easier than fabing whole air bag set up dont get me wrong air bags are better but at what effort and cost they also make adjustable shocks for heavy trucks you have to look for them but they are out the one other thing that goes against all theory and what most will tell you is i know first hand several people who have put gas shocks on there highway tractors and they ride like tanks it doesnt make sense but i know it happens i know i guy who went and bought oil shock and paid again to change them and then we get to unsprung weight how about aluminum wheels if possible wheel stud length type of hubs could be double benefit how about 24.5 aluminum wheels with tall rubber about 7% diference 3 to 4 mph over 22.5 just a thought to help with gearing food for thought

[jazty]

Instead of starting a new thread, I've decided to revive this old one and try to add to it's usefulness.

Anyhow, I would like to remove a leaf spring. My bus is mostly built and won't have much more weight added inside of it. As it is right now, it takes considerable force to flex those rear springs. If I hit a speed bump over 10kph all the loose stuff in the back is airborne. The ride up front is fine, but I can hear things slamming away in the back going down the highway as well. I figure I'll do one and see how it works.. If another is needed I'll be a pro and it should only take a couple hours to remove.

Here are some pictures.. It's very difficult to get a good shot without pulling the wheels off.


















Don't worry folks.. That's not ALL rust. The entire underside is also coated in red New Mexican dust. I plan on cutting the u-bolts and replacing them, BTW.

I'm thinking of removing the 2nd or 3rd leaf from the top (whichever one isn't connecting the pack to the frame). Does that make sense, or should I remove one from more in the middle? Any input from suspension gurus is appreciated.