designing floor plans do's and don'ts

[delbertinie]

is there any websites or computor program that aid in designing a floor plan for my skoolie
also what did you do and liked or what did do that you hate
Help I have ideas but wonder if I will run into problems with plumbing or wiring if I lay it out wrong
dale

[KC10Chief]

Using a computer program SUCKS. I don't know why anybody would bother unless you're an expert at a CAD program. What I do, is I take a bunch of regular printer paper, and tape the sheets together. I measured the inside living area of my bus at 24.5 feet long, and 7.5 feet wide. So, I then took four sheets of paper, lined up the long edges, and taped them together with scotch tape. I then used a ruler and made a rectangle that was 7.5 INCHES by 24.5 INCHES. I of course used a ruler and protractor. So, each inch on my piece of paper represents a foot on the real bus. It keeps things nice and simple. Now that I had my rectangle, I then drew in where I wanted everything. I decided I wanted a king size bed, a 8' couch, a bathroom with shower and toilet, bunks, and a kitchen area inside my bus. I then decided how big I needed everything to be and converted it down to my paper and drew everything up. On the outside of the rectangle, I had plenty of room for notes. I also marked where the wheel well's, escape hatches, and where each window was. It's nice and simple, and will only cost you a few cents. Don't waste your time with CAD programs. Once you have your plans drawn up, you can then go in your bus and use masking tape to mark where you want your walls, and floorplan. That way you can get a look at it in real size and get an idea if you need to change anything. I also look at things around the house like my couch, my bed, my shower and get an idea of how big I want things to be in my bus and if I can scale it down any. Like my shower. I can live with a 32" by 32" square shower. I'm telling you, doing it on paper is by far the easiest, most fun, and most accurate way for you to design your floorplan. If you can do basic math and ratio proportion, you can do it on paper. If you can't do basic math, you couldn't use a CAD program anyways.

I have designed my own radio controlled airplanes for years now. Everybody thinks I make them with some fancy computer program. The only thing I use a computer program for is the air foils (wing ribs). Other than that, I draw a small version of what I want on a piece of paper. Then, I tape a bunch of pieces of paper together and draw my plane on there in full scale. I'll do the wing on a bunch of sheets, and the fuselage on another bunch of sheets. I draw the outline of what I want, and fill in the rest from there. I can design an entire plane with nothing more than a 12" ruler, a 36" ruler, a protractor, a pump pencil, sheets of paper and some scotch tape. That's less than $5 worth of stuff. So, if an aircraft can be designed like that, you can do your bus floor plans like that.

[delbertinie]

I have layed out my ideas on graph paper to get an idea. I have went and looked at a few new rvs to get ideas, but haven't had the oportunity to take a tape measure and measure though but I will.
Really what interests me is hearing what others have done to give me ideas that I have not thought of. and I want to hear mistakes so I don't make them myself
dale
I had planned to do an actual layout first, like you said but one of those neat 3-d programs to see it before I build it would be cool too.

[delbertinie]

oh buy the way kc10 chief Is your bus the red chiefs shory bus that I seen in Raytown mo today. I live in kcmo
dale
just a hunch I maybe a newbe but I am always looking for neat buses

[KC10Chief]

No, I used to be an aircraft mechanic on the KC-10. It's a big, three engine cargo and mid-air refueling jet. Then I was a mechanic on the E-3 AWACS. Then I switched jobs and now I'm a flight engineer on the AWACS. But I started using KC10Chief a long time ago on other forums and it's easier to just keep it the same.

Anyways, looking at RV's is an excellent thing to do. I had a travel trailer a while back and I learned a lot about how RV's work and what I want. Another thing I like to do, is go to places like Home Depot and Lowes and spend a while walking around and seeing what kind of products are available. I get all sorts of crazy ideas on what I want to do. I am working on making my bus fairly nice and modern on the inside. Nothing crazy, but I'd like it to be comfortable and decent looking inside. So, I look at home improvement magazines or look on the internet at expensive houses that are for sale and just get ideas on paint, woodwork, tile, carpet, textiles etc. I'm planning to do everything myself though. I figure the hardest part for ME anyways, is going to be the wiring. I know the basics about electricity and understand how everything works basically, but it's definately my weak point. Plumbing and woodwork are definately up my alley. Another thing I'm doing in my bus, is removing all of the metal trim on the floor in the bus. Any holes from where seats were, I'm sealing those up. Then, I'm going to lay some wood subflooring in. Lowes has 4'x8'x7/16" sheets for less than $6. I figure I can put a nice subfloor in my bus for around $50. Then, I'll have a nice wooden surface to build on. I'm putting heated floors in my bus as well. Carpet in the back where the bedroom and bunks are, tile in the bathroom, and wood flooring (vinyl wood ) up front. I have very detailed plans on how I want it to turn out. I spent a lot of time in my bus just staring at it and imagining how I wanted it to turn out. I also took a lot of measurements like the length and width on the inside, height, where the wheel wells are located, escape hatches, where each window is located, the height from the floor to the bottom, middle and tops of the windows. I also marked which windows I'm going to paint from the inside, which ones I'm going to tint, which ones I need to permanently install into the up position, which ones I'll want to be able to open etc. I took storage into account as well. I also took measurements underneath the bus for water tanks and compared it to inside the bus so I can make it work with the bathroom and plumbing. I decided where I wanted electrical outlets and how I would need to route the wiring, where to install batteries, inverters, etc. Try to think everything through and how one thing is going to affect another.

[GoneCamping]

I used the paint shop program on the computer, but used pixels instead of inches, but otherwise very similar to the way he mentioned above. I don't remember what my actual scale was, but I believe I either used one pixel to equal and inch, or 2 pixels to equal an inch... or something like that.

In my design phase, I already had a basic idea of how I wanted it to lay out, which pretty much fell in line with just about any motor home...living area up front, kitchen mid-forward, bath mid-rear, and bed in the back.

Since it's my intention to use this thing as a full time unit, and I live in a climate which can get below freezing several nights per winter and occassionally snow, I wanted to make sure it was fully 4 season capable. In as much, I added a cargo bay under the middle of the bus, and this is where I ran almost all the plumbing that had to either be exposed below or cross over from one side to the other. This way all the plumbing would be inside an enclosed area and easier to insulate and heat if necesary. It also minimized how much plumbing had to be routed around the bus, keeping everything basically central within the bus design...

[delbertinie]

kc10 I thought it might be you because his liscense plate was kc10rd
dale pretty simular

[delbertinie]

cliff I try to use the k.i.s.s. method myself keep it simple stupid. unfortunately the stupid part really refers to me
the plumbing wiring ect. is more important to me than the asthetics. Keeping everthing as close as possible really make sense to me. It also save $ and sense as well that the advice I'm really after.I too want to make four season as well don't know how much I really will use it all year round but want the option. I am going make it easy to drain and flush my plumbing for the winter though, been thinking about adding heat tape and insulation as well. I just don't want to make repairs everytime i turn around. I'm really going os! OFF SUBJECT.
i AM TRYING TO THINK OF ALL THE DETAILS BEFORE ASSEMBLY! That is why I want to hear what you did and loved and what you would do the next time different
thanks Dale

[soused moose]

For a simple and very inexpensive CAD program I recommend 3-D Home architect ….for a measly $10.00 you can draw up as many plans as you want….
You can set your wall thickness at 2 inch which is a nice feature ,and it contains a library of furnishings and fixtures that are easily re-sized for rv specs….

Then for kicks you can do a 3-d walkthrough of your plans ….this is a nice feature because it allows you to see in a 3 dimensional sense what the finished interior will look like.

[soused moose]

Here’s a tip I’ve learned in the working with floor plans stuff….make sure you take into account what’s underneath the bus too….this is especially important when you cutting holes through for your toilet flanges and other water ,propane and such lines….
I screwed upon that big time and sprained my wrist using a big hole-saw attachment to cut through the floor for the toilet flange ….I hit a steel cross member which was no fun….

[KC10Chief]

Here's what I'm planning to do for my heated floors. I have a ball python (snake) at home. To heat his tank, I have a 1 foot piece of flex watt heat tape under the tank hooked up to a rheostat switch so I can control the temperature. This stuff is only .012" thick! That's like three sheets of paper. It's 11" wide and you can git it in any length you like. At full power, it takes 20 watts per foot to heat. So, if you ran a 20 foot strip down an aisle in your bus, it would only take 400 watts to power it. A regular RV air conditioner takes almost 5 times as much power.

So, in my bus, I'm laying some subflooring down on the metal floor. Lowes sells 4'x8'x7/16" sheets for less than $6 each. Then I'm going to do all of my building on top of that sub flooring. I'm saving the tile, carpet and wood flooring for last. So, once I have everything built, I'm going to lay my heat tape down the central aisle in my bus and stick it to the subflooring with some vinyl tile glue. After that, I'm going to lay my vinyl tile and vinyl wood flooring and carpet on top of that. This heat tape can take a LOT of weight. More than you'll ever put on it by walking on it. Then, I'll hook a rheostat switch up to the whole thing because you wouldn't want this at full power. 7 or 8 watts per foot would be plenty to keep your floor warm on a cold winter day. I don't know of anybody that has tried this yet, but I'm going to give it a shot. The price is around $3.50 per foot. I'm figuring that I'll need around 25 feet for my bus. Also, you can cut this stuff with scissors too. The wiring is really easy as well. You just solder the two ends to the metal strips on the sides of the tape. We'll see how it works out. Here's a picture of this stuff...

[delbertinie]

that is a really cool idea I think it will be in my plans if it works for you. Where is a good supplier for that heat tape
In my earlier post I was referring to wrapping all the plumbing with heat tape. even if the bus is sitting unusued I will have it on and plugged to the garage electricity to keep it from breaking. warm toes is always a plus too!
dale

[delbertinie]

for my subflooring I am toying with idea of aluminum sound matt 1/4 foam sheets then plywood held with counter sunk bolts.

[KC10Chief]

I'm planning on using the heat tape under my water tanks too. I'm going to do my tanks like VonSlatt did his. Big rectangular tanks held in with angle iron and sitting on some plywood. A little heat tape would keep things thawed. Of course, I'd have to figure a way to waterproof it.

[delbertinie]

I am good with fiberglass just had a thought about flex watt heat tape. I was going to make my water tanks out glass for several reason weight being the primary factor, can make any size any shape that I want and I can make them semi transparent, at least enough to visually see water level. I wonder how that tape would hold up under resin. inotherwords build the heat tape in between the layers of the tank would be water proof then
dale

[delbertinie]

with your application, lightly grind metal on the tank so its clean and a little rough glue your heat tape down, cut a piece of fiberglass clothe not matt one layer will waterproof it. the clothe should be about 2 inches bigger than the heat tape panel. put clothe on big piece of cardboard mix hardner in resin. us an paint brush about a 2 inch. soak the clothe while its on the cardboard cover heat tape make sure power wires are exposed brush out all air bubbles using bristles of the brush to dabb air bubbles out with a tapping motion make sure there is enough hardner in resin, and in about 20 minutes should be hard wear gloves, and use thinner or mineral spirits for clean up. oh by the way saok clothe completely but mop out excese resin so it won't be so messy when you apply it. You really don't want to wear it. surgical gloves work the best.
and you will have a chemical reaction that creats heat, its normal
Dale

[KC10Chief]

Yep. The Flexwatt heat tape definately has some good skoolie applications I think. I'm just thinking about safety. My plan was to coat any exposed metal with some sort of resin so water can't get to the electricity. I'm thinking that if I were to put it on some tanks under my bus, they might not only get wet from a leak in the tank, but from water on the road. I'm planning on getting my tanks from plastic-mart.com. You can get any size you want and the tanks are semi transparent. I'm going to get two 95 gallon tanks. But that place is in California and I'm in Oklahoma. So, I'm going to look around my area and see if anybody closer makes tanks so I can save a few hundred bucks on shipping! Inside the bus, I'll be able to use my dremel tool to route some grooves for wires to go in in my subflooring for the heat tape. Then I can lay the vinyl tiles on top and have a nice flat floor.

[delbertinie]

try putting two blades back to back on your skill saw screw a long 2/4 on the floor. set the depth on the cut as shallow as the wire. then rip along the 2/4 the you have a nice straight line as deep as long as you wish to run the wire quick and easy remove the 2/4 board and your temporary rip fench is gone

[SeanF]

What we did that seems to work...been fulltiming for 1 year now:

*We put the sink and shower drains next to each other so they empty directly into the graywater tank. No exposed pipes. Also helps keep the cold & hot water runs short
*We kept the plumbing to one side of the bus.
*We kept the center aisle 36" wide. It feels very roomy (for what it is )
*Put in as many windows as possible. Daylight is good.
*A brighter interior helps offset the "enclosed space" feeling.
*We divided the 23' living space into 3 distict areas:
1. The front is the dining area, computer area, cooking area, and my office. Sort of the daytime area.
2. The center is the shower & bathroom
3. The aft area is for relaxing, reading, sleeping. That way we're not crossing over/through the sleeping area to use the potty or get a snack. Very important if your significant other values her sleep

See our website for more info on our conversion.

HTH
Sean

[paul iossi]

for floorplans I like to use 1/4 inch graph paper and templates from staedler or picket that have scale fixture and furnature outlines, layout your inside dimensions and obstacles under the bus, then overlay the outline with tracing paper, let the templates determine how things want to fit. to chance layouts just use another piece of tracing paper.

has anyone used a waterbed heater to keep tanks from freezing?