Driving without cdl?

[ewo1]

Originally Posted by Funk Daddy G

Met with Regional state police that handles inspections for reclassification, and it is based on each state regulations. Some states do require a reclassification before it's legal to drive, Even with hydraulic brakes, for those who don't have air brakes endorsement, just because of how it's designated.

I let him read this thread. Gave him a good laugh, especially everyone who thinks the endorsement should don't matter.

I'm posting this information for others who May care about being legal when driving your new rig.

Too much wrong information here that's Will cost people money.

You win..we lose….. ROFLMAO !!!!!
Guess you don’t need our advice after all!
Good luck on your build, since you got it all figured out !

[cadillackid]

I know Ohio DMV are confused as all get out when it comes to licensing and even tagging the busses.. I thought this stuff was written clearly but when you read statutes they often leave things out and so how do they really know?

Employees are dealing with lobby packed full of impatient customers so they don’t want to take time to call someone or look something up so they either just push through what they think is the right transaction or if you are calling them then they just want you off their phone so they can get back to that lobby full of impatient customers

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

I know Ohio DMV are confused as all get out when it comes to licensing and even tagging the busses.

PennDOT employees are similarly confused. I had one call with them where the person I was talking to insisted that a school bus cannot under any circumstances ever be retitled in PA as anything other than a school bus. She even went and got her supervisor who agreed with her, and yet it isn't the case at all - many, many people here have retitled their buses as motorhomes (and even as station wagons sometimes).

[ewo1]

In Florida you can actually download and print the FLHSMV tag agency manual outlining all the DMV procedures and policies. Here in Florida changing the bus classification to MH - motor home- is as simple as providing an signed affidavit to that change of vehicle classification. You will need a copy of that section of the manual in your hand when you go to the Tag agency simply because this procedure is not common at all and most tag agency employees are not trained on this function, hence, they are not fully informed at the front line level.

I asked the original poster what state he was from, he decided to keep it a secret.
Oh well too bad, guess i won’t make another effort to help secretive people!

[RamRod4]

Originally Posted by Funk Daddy G

Met with Regional state police that handles inspections for reclassification, and it is based on each state regulations. Some states do require a reclassification before it's legal to drive, Even with hydraulic brakes, for those who don't have air brakes endorsement, just because of how it's designated.

I let him read this thread. Gave him a good laugh, especially everyone who thinks the endorsement should don't matter.

I'm posting this information for others who May care about being legal when driving your new rig.

Too much wrong information here that's Will cost people money.

Hey, if you want to involve your regional police and put yourself on their radar as well as go through the headache of getting a passenger endorsement to drive a 15 passenger bus then go right ahead. Doesn’t mean any of it was necessary.

The point most people are trying to make is that there’s no one that’s going to give you a definite answer. Laws and regulations are up to interpretation by the involved officer/official. If you want a CYA to make you feel good about driving what is basically a cutaway van with seats in it then so be it. No need to get on here and tell us all the answer to your own question.

Good luck getting a response when the search function doesn’t work again and you need help removing your seats.

[ewo1]

Originally Posted by RamRod4

Good luck getting a response when the search function doesn’t work again and you need help removing your seats.

Or better yet, I cut some wires and my bus won't start!
LMAO....

[HamSkoolie]

Originally Posted by Funk Daddy G

Too much wrong information here that's Will cost people money.

You can say that six more times!!!!!!

[HamSkoolie]

Originally Posted by ewo1

That being said, remove all the seats, the school bus signals and wording, paint the red/yellow marker lights with black spray paint and you no longer have a bus, you have a truck now!

Not when the registration lists body type as "BU"... that's a BUS. It doesn't matter what modifications you do until you get the documentation to say "TK" or "MH" or something. If it says "BU" and has no seats except the drivers, IT'S A BUS.


As for driving it, it depends on the state in which it's registered and/or the drivers license of the operator.... big gray area if they're different ......
Here in Oregon I can't drive my 40' diesel pusher with air brakes if the documentation says "BU". But the moment we got our Vermont registration and plates it became a motorhome "MH" which in Oregon can be driven with the plain old everybody has it license.

[CritiqueThisBus]

Originally Posted by Funk Daddy G

I apologize. The search feature is just freezing and never providing results.

I believe I've found my (Mini) bus. It's advertised as a 15 passenger. Has seats for 13 plus one wheel chair lock.

It's out of State. Anyone have experience legally driving a mini bus without a CDL? State rebranding department says it's a titling question. State titling department says it's a jurisdiction question.

I want to be able to drive it to And from the supply store while I'm converting it and it's in a drivable condition.

In my state you can drive a Bus ( Any Length or Passenger load ), still titled as a commercial vehicle, without a CDL license or any special endorsements so long as you don't carry more than 14 people and aren't charging anyone for the ride.

No need for air brake endorsements or anything else. Just so long as it's being used as a personal vehicle.

I went the distance and had it changed over to an RV/Motorhome because I couldn't afford $3000 a yr " Commercial" insurance and didn't want to stop at every weigh station I drove past.

As long as I'm in the DMV/MVD/DOT system as an RV/Motorhome, any law enforcement official running my tag will see I'm not a commercial vehicle and that should keep me from being stopped by all but the most hard-case LEO.

[Veloc]

So - why was everyone jumping up the OP's backside? Did he kick your virtual dog or something? I didn't see anything in the OP's questions or responses that warranted the yelling and screaming. If anything, the OP showed an immense amount of patience in responding. Can't imagine why other folks who are bristly and argumentative from the get-go get treated with kid gloves while this fellow gets the pitchforks. Even if he was asking questions that he should have known the answer to based on his license, not everyone remembers everything. Potential new members seeing threads like this will assume they'll be jumped on for not already knowing stuff as well, and will stay away from the board.

[Albatross]

Part of my original reply in this thread is that a lot of the attitudes in here are what I consider to be part of the problem with society these days.

The US Constitution does not grant anything to the People of the United States that they did not already possess; it limits government to what it is allowed to do. That's why the 2A says, "shall not be infringed."



"The use of the highways for the purpose of travel and transportation is not a mere privilege, but a common and fundamental Right of which the public and the individual cannot be rightfully deprived."
Chicago Motor Coach vs. Chicago, 169 NE 22;
Ligare vs. Chicago, 28 NE 934;
Boon vs. Clark, 214 SSW 607;
25 Am.Jur. (1st) Highways Sect.163

Licenses are what you get when you're performing something that would normally be for a profession; because professional drivers are utilizing the property of the public for professional gain, and oftentimes pulling heavier loads than normal people--which causes undue stress, strain, wear, and tear on the public property, we ask that they be licensed, as well as fined if they violate some kind of good-faith provision of traveling. This concept has been pushed legally to its absolute maximum context, not only through the modern incarnation of traffic courts, but also through various interpretations such as that once case where some bastard decided that "growing food in your backyard constitutes 'Interstate commerce' because the food you grow displaces or competes with food that would have otherwise been 'imported' into the state". Thus everything is now a 'commercial act' since, anything you do for yourself displaces or competes with a professional doing that job for you. And they keep licensing and traffic fines so low that people will mostly pay them instead of hiring a lawyer, so it has come to the point where, now, everyone just assumes that you need a license to use the roadways at all--including the cops trying to fine/tax/rob you for doing what is your fundamental and divine right to do.

I swore an oath to uphold the Constitution. Reminding people of our basic and fundamental rights is part of what I consider that oath to actually mean. Being kidnapped and placed in a concrete and iron box while fighting tyranny like this kind of thought process is also part of that oath, if it comes to it. And if enough people decide that they're willing to sit on a jury and refuse to convict for doing more, then I just might get to that point, as well.

We don't have to live like we currently are, people. We don't have to beg the government for permission to do anything, because our Founding Forefathers were abandoned by King James, and essentially gifted their sovereignty. And when the Red Coats came back and tried to force us back under a tyrannical ruler, we shot them. We've been at war for most of our existence--for right or wrong--and while we've lost track of what made us a such an incredibly great place to be, we can get there again.

https://central-bailbonds.com/u-s-su...ghwaysstreets/

https://www.uslawbooks.com/travel/travelcites.htm

https://www.agenda31.org/wp-content/...-to-Travel.pdf

[HamSkoolie]

Originally Posted by Veloc

So - why was everyone jumping up the OP's backside? Did he kick your virtual dog or something? I didn't see anything in the OP's questions or responses that warranted the yelling and screaming. If anything, the OP showed an immense amount of patience in responding.

Because in his first post he said:

Originally Posted by Funk Daddy G

... Anyone have experience legally driving a mini bus without a CDL? State rebranding department says it's a titling question. State titling department says it's a jurisdiction question.
I want to be able to drive it to And from the supply store while I'm converting it and it's in a drivable condition.

This states, in other words, "I don't have a CDL, can I drive it?"
Then in his very next post he states:

Originally Posted by Funk Daddy G

I have a class A, with multiple endorsements. I'm intimately familiar with the "commercial drivers license". Even though I no longer use it.

Hmmmmmmmm He has a CDL and is "intimately familiar" with it.
In that same post he goes on to say:

Originally Posted by Funk Daddy G

But, I do not have nor do I ever plan to get the passenger endorsement. I Will never even do ride share if I can help it.

Okay, no problem with that.... BUT THEN:

Originally Posted by Funk Daddy G

Any vehicle with more than 15 humans in it requires a CDL with passenger endorsement for the driver.

MORE THAN? Let's go back to that FIRST post....

Originally Posted by Funk Daddy G

... It's advertised as a 15 passenger. Has seats for 13 plus one wheel chair lock.

Sooooo

Anyone have experience legally driving a mini bus without a CDL? -- HE HAS ONE
Any vehicle with more than 15 humans in it requires a CDL with passenger endorsement -- The bus he described DOES NOT hold more than 15 pax

[ewo1]

Originally Posted by HamSkoolie

Not when the registration lists body type as "BU"... that's a BUS. It doesn't matter what modifications you do until you get the documentation to say "TK" or "MH" or something. If it says "BU" and has no seats except the drivers, IT'S A BUS.


As for driving it, it depends on the state in which it's registered and/or the drivers license of the operator.... big gray area if they're different ......
Here in Oregon I can't drive my 40' diesel pusher with air brakes if the documentation says "BU". But the moment we got our Vermont registration and plates it became a motorhome "MH" which in Oregon can be driven with the plain old everybody has it license.

You are 100% correct about the BU = Bus on the registration but that is not the benchmark for the P endorsement on a cdl license.

Here is the Florida FLHSMV doc that will clarify this.

https://www.flhsmv.gov/driver-licens...-designations/

The benchmark is the number of passengers, not the title/ registration classification.
If you drive a van designed to carry 15 or more passengers it will probably be classified as a van/ auto and not a bus, requiring you to have a P endorsement.

But… if there are no seats, then it cannot legally carry any passengers!

If the bus is newly purchased and in transit with no seats, no officer can clearly articulate to any court that the availability to seat 15+ passengers was present!

Again, it not necessarily the classification that determines the P endorsement. It is clearly the number of passengers that the vehicle can currently, at the time of the traffic stop, can transport…whether it be a bus, van or truck body.

What they can get you for is air brakes endorsement!

[ewo1]

Originally Posted by HamSkoolie

Because in his first post he said:

This states, in other words, "I don't have a CDL, can I drive it?"
Then in his very next post he states:

Hmmmmmmmm He has a CDL and is "intimately familiar" with it.
In that same post he goes on to say:

Okay, no problem with that.... BUT THEN:


MORE THAN? Let's go back to that FIRST post....


Sooooo

Anyone have experience legally driving a mini bus without a CDL? -- HE HAS ONE
Any vehicle with more than 15 humans in it requires a CDL with passenger endorsement -- The bus he described DOES NOT hold more than 15 pax

Not only that but I asked him what states he was talking about and he refused to answer. No problem except that how can you help with specifics when the conversation is general in nature?

And he clearly asked for anyone experiences on this issue, we gave it to him, but his state police officer, don’t know what state he talking about, well he immediately implied we were all collectively wrong and the cop was right.

No problem, but why dump on us all who tried to help so early in the morning?

I am number one in my mind in trying to help out but he didn’t give anyone a clear path/ chance to help him!

The the state police did..what state???

[TheHubbardBus]

Originally Posted by Veloc

So - why was everyone jumping up the OP's backside? Did he kick your virtual dog or something? I didn't see anything in the OP's questions or responses that warranted the yelling and screaming. If anything, the OP showed an immense amount of patience in responding. Can't imagine why other folks who are bristly and argumentative from the get-go get treated with kid gloves while this fellow gets the pitchforks. Even if he was asking questions that he should have known the answer to based on his license, not everyone remembers everything. Potential new members seeing threads like this will assume they'll be jumped on for not already knowing stuff as well, and will stay away from the board.

His first post (intro) stated he has 2 x TBIs (traumatic brain injuries) and has difficulty sorting sarcasm from seriousness. I think it's likely this whole thread can be explained by simple misunderstandings (on all sides).

[HamSkoolie]

Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus

His first post (intro) stated he has 2 x TBIs (traumatic brain injuries) and has difficulty sorting sarcasm from seriousness. I think it's likely this whole thread can be explained by simple misunderstandings (on all sides).

So in the intro thread/forum not here.
Could 'splain some things. Though not being the PC type, doesn't affect my thoughts on the matter.

[ewo1]

Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus

His first post (intro) stated he has 2 x TBIs (traumatic brain injuries) and has difficulty sorting sarcasm from seriousness. I think it's likely this whole thread can be explained by simple misunderstandings (on all sides).

That does explain things much better indeed. That being said I”ll admit he was not even close to being a jerk but it was just a bit frustrating in trying to give a helping hand with such a cryptic back n forth of information.

I’d gladly try to help him out again knowing what I know now.

Thanks for sharing the info…

[rossvtaylor]

From my perspective, just coming in and reading this in its entirety all at once...I think the communications issues boil down to two things:

1) The first post implies unfamiliarity with the CDL process or requirements, but it turns out the OP has a Class A and seems pretty familiar with the requirements. It's like someone asking, "Hey, what size water pump do I need for my well?" and after people answer, trying to help a novice with easy-to-understand terms, the questioner reveals they have a Masters in Chem E and fluid dynamics. At that point, the basic "newby centered" responses seem less helpful and wasted. And, perhaps, the OP feels insulted by the layman's-friendly responses...

2) RamRod tried to help and posted a very thorough and helpful response. It obviously took some time to type that much. But he got "beat up" by the OP for saying people shouldn't mention CDL. I totally get what RR was saying. It's the same as advising, "Don't say Rooftop Deck to your insurance agent." (It's a solar rack or storage rack?) Giving that advice isn't limiting free speech or being domineering...it's just wise advice.

Funk Daddy G...you're new here and very welcome. But, please understand that this is far and away the most helpful, knowledgable group of skoolie lovers and supporters on the internet. People here were trying to help, based on the info they got, and I think that help was genuine. Please take that help with a little grace and accept the gift of time and assistance that they extended to you.

[KeyWestPirate]

Everyone wants to help,, and everyone wants good info.


Starting this year, on Feb 7 and Feb 22, the feds starting pushing more uniform standards to the states regarding CDL licensing, training, and enforcement of over the road activity.


In Arizona for example,, you can no longer just show up and take the written CDL test. You have to present evidence of some "training". Many school districts do their own training and testing. The examiners now have to be named in a national registry.



There was a lot of fraud: "Get your CDL in Two Weeks" and some sketchy drivers. Now it's going the other way. I read a story about some woman who was cited for being over her allowable time behind the wheel,, stuck in a massive traffic jam.


States are still allowed exceptions, and rural states have many for ag vehicle drivers. But,, that CDL is only good within that state.


For those who are planning this as a lifestyle move, may I make a suggestion? Many school districts are desperate for drivers, and if you show up clean shaven, drug free, with a reasonably clean DMV record, they will hire you on the spot, and train you tomorrow.

Just,, when they ask you if you like kids,, don't say,, "I LOVE kids". They're a bit sensitive about that



They pay you while you learn,, and you wind up with a Class B, with the necessary endorsements. And you get the best part of the day free to work on your bus conversion. Plus,, great benefits, summers free,, and all the school holidays, We are guaranteed 30 hours, but there is always more than enough hours (read the desperate part above). I often work a 5:30AM to 6PM day, not very willingly.


I agree,, 90% of us will not need a CDL to go down the road in our converted bus. If you want one,, here is a way to get it.

But for someone who wanted to tour in the summers, and not work that hard during the rest of the year,, with a guaranteed government job waiting for them at summer's end,, it might be a consideration.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by KeyWestPirate

Everyone wants to help,, and everyone wants good info.


Starting this year, on Feb 7 and Feb 22, the feds starting pushing more uniform standards to the states regarding CDL licensing, training, and enforcement of over the road activity.


In Arizona for example,, you can no longer just show up and take the written CDL test. You have to present evidence of some "training". Many school districts do their own training and testing. The examiners now have to be named in a national registry.



There was a lot of fraud: "Get your CDL in Two Weeks" and some sketchy drivers. Now it's going the other way. I read a story about some woman who was cited for being over her allowable time behind the wheel,, stuck in a massive traffic jam.


States are still allowed exceptions, and rural states have many for ag vehicle drivers. But,, that CDL is only good within that state.


For those who are planning this as a lifestyle move, may I make a suggestion? Many school districts are desperate for drivers, and if you show up clean shaven, drug free, with a reasonably clean DMV record, they will hire you on the spot, and train you tomorrow.

Just,, when they ask you if you like kids,, don't say,, "I LOVE kids". They're a bit sensitive about that



They pay you while you learn,, and you wind up with a Class B, with the necessary endorsements. And you get the best part of the day free to work on your bus conversion. Plus,, great benefits, summers free,, and all the school holidays, We are guaranteed 30 hours, but there is always more than enough hours (read the desperate part above). I often work a 5:30AM to 6PM day, not very willingly.


I agree,, 90% of us will not need a CDL to go down the road in our converted bus. If you want one,, here is a way to get it.

But for someone who wanted to tour in the summers, and not work that hard during the rest of the year,, with a guaranteed government job waiting for them at summer's end,, it might be a consideration.

just **READ** the contract carefully.. some school districts require a certain number of hours of service after training you or you get a big ole fat bill... others have a stipulation "one academic year"... and some are just glad you are willing to take the air-chair with 65 of their worst screamin demons.. (yes you'll get the worst inner-city route)...


that said , driving a bus down a narrow street with cars parked on both sides will teach you real quick how to drive a perfectly straight line in a bus