Fabco 4x4 International 3800 bus

Badfish740 · 10-13-2016, 08:38 AM

Just ran across this and thought it might be of interest here. It's already been sold, but the pictures could be instructive to anyone contemplating a 4x4 bus build:

1997 International 4x4 School Bus 1874 - School Buses, Miscellaneous Buses - Buses for Sale

It was converted with Fabco parts which manufactures 4WD systems for medium and heavy duty trucks:

Fabco Automotive Corporation

I think the biggest takeaway from this is the lift need to fit a 4x4 front axle. Assuming a stock tire size of about 34", that means that the bottom edge of the nose (not the bumper) is about 34" off of the ground, as it seems to be even with the top of the tire. Compared to a stock International 3800, which seems to have the bottom edge of the nose situated about 3/4 of the way up the tire (about 25.5"), I think it's safe to say that about 10" is what is needed in order to fit an axle of sufficient strength under a full size bus. The Fabco axles are face loaders unlike military 2.5 ton units, so this is probably the minimum amount of lift one could get away with. Just food for thought...

cowlitzcoach · 10-13-2016, 10:40 AM

I wonder if that bus was a twin to this bus?

International 1997 AMTRAN

This one is still for sale as far as I know.

cadillackid · 10-13-2016, 11:23 AM

whats wierd is the pcitures look liek a WARD and not an amtran.. but maybe they were close at one time in looks

cowlitzcoach · 10-13-2016, 12:41 PM

International Harvester purchased a minority interest in the Ward Body Company in the early '90's. At that time the company changed the name to AmTrans.

Sometime in the early '00's IHC/Navistar purchased the rest of Ward and renamed the division IC.

So yes, there is a lot of similarity between the Ward body buses of the early '90's, the AmTrans bodies of the mid-'90's, and the later bodies of IC.

cadillackid · 10-13-2016, 01:16 PM

cool stuff i never knew International was into ward.. was carpenter involved at all in IC? the shape and body style of IC is similar to carpenter other than the slanted windshield where carpenter/crown was flat..

I always thought wards looked a lot like Superiors.. even the defrosters and switch panels were pretty close to the same from superior to ward.. and the angled driver window..

-Christopher

cadillackid · 10-13-2016, 01:30 PM

@cowlitz - a bit off topic but since its the subject of ward.. I remember years ago when in school the bus drivers on busses similar had a glass wind deflector that was on a Boom similar to a mirror.. was framed in metal and then was window glass..

they could use it almost like a wing window when the driver window was open to help bring air in the bus or to help suck air out just like you would use a wing window.

then it folded glat up against the driver window when they didnt need ir..
this was on the outside of the bus..

everyone tells me im crazy that such a device never existed.. but I swear we had them in middle school in the early 80s.

I remember them using them esp on damp days to bring air in and blow it at the windshield because the defrosters sucked on the old wards and superiors..

-Christopher

cowlitzcoach · 10-13-2016, 06:03 PM

I can remember the window you are remembering. It was sort of like a vent wing window that cars used to have.

I can remember them on Thomas and Carpenter buses. I don't know that I ever saw one on a Wayne, Superior, Blue Bird, or Ward bus. For that matter, very few buses I have seen had them.

As an extra cost option it was not very high on the list of must haves or wouldn't it be nice to have option lists.

As far as I know International did NOT have anything to do with Carpenter other than supplying them with a lot of chassis over the years. IIRC, there was virtually nothing similar between the Ward and Carpenter bodies. Even their rub rails were significantly different. Carpenter squared up the front and rear body profile several years before Ward did. Ward still had some curve to the rear roof profile up into the late '70's while Carpenter squared up in the mid- to late '60's--it was about the same time that Blue Bird squared up their profile and Superior stopped the distinctive panel between the last window and the corner of the body.

cadillackid · 10-13-2016, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach

I can remember the window you are remembering. It was sort of like a vent wing window that cars used to have.

I can remember them on Thomas and Carpenter buses. I don't know that I ever saw one on a Wayne, Superior, Blue Bird, or Ward bus. For that matter, very few buses I have seen had them.

As an extra cost option it was not very high on the list of must haves or wouldn't it be nice to have option lists.

As far as I know International did NOT have anything to do with Carpenter other than supplying them with a lot of chassis over the years. IIRC, there was virtually nothing similar between the Ward and Carpenter bodies. Even their rub rails were significantly different. Carpenter squared up the front and rear body profile several years before Ward did. Ward still had some curve to the rear roof profile up into the late '70's while Carpenter squared up in the mid- to late '60's--it was about the same time that Blue Bird squared up their profile and Superior stopped the distinctive panel between the last window and the corner of the body.

good stuff.. it may have a been a carpenter i saw it on.. our schooles back then had carpenters waynes and superiors almost exclusivly.. in ohio those 3 busses were made in ohio or indiana.. bluebird and thomas never stood a chance.. thoiugh there were the occaional ward ot thomas.. I never even saw a bluebird to my dads friend starting selling them .. he brought one to my grandmas house.. it was the first flat-nose bus I saw.. i think i was like 13 or 14 at the time and got to drive it around the "circle" grandma lived on..

Id Love to find one of those windows.. the one thing I miss about driving the bus is the evening time rides with the wind in my hair and A/C blasting on hot nights.. but I want to be able to close up when i want without having to stop like if I have to open a bunch of seat windows.. the driver window creates more NEG pressure on the bus because of the mirrors so no nice breeze there..

-Christopher

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