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Old 09-19-2019, 07:37 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by joeblack5 View Post
Well I guess, I gave you two examples to try and wrap your mind around it, if that is not enough for you then I tell you it is 31.


Later Johan
And here I thought it was only 30.

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Old 09-19-2019, 07:37 PM   #62
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I would.
Oh yeah, I'd watch that. I'd totally subscribe to that channel.
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Old 09-19-2019, 08:19 PM   #63
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Me too, do it.
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Old 09-19-2019, 08:41 PM   #64
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I can relate. No rivets. But I had to remove all the screws in my subfloor because one of the boards shifted. Then I had to put them all back in. My son told me not to pre-drill and I tried one time. The drill slipped and messed up my finger holding the screw in place and I chipped the bone in my finger. Needless to say, I pre-drilled the rest of the holes. And I should not complain because if it had involved rivets I probably would have cut off my finger with a grinder. Good luck removing your rivets.
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Old 09-20-2019, 06:41 AM   #65
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Can I ask how old your kids are?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zona_The_Bus View Post
Woke up this morning feeling really down. unfortunately I think I bit off more then I can chew Coming into this skoolie project I didn't know what to expect and how long it was going to take me . I did know that it was going to be a very big project and I knew there was no stopping me it was something that I really wanted "everybody thinks I'm crazy". I am manly doing this project by myself so everything is taking me longer . I am having the hardest times getting the ceiling off and I have "screws". When I put my screw driver to unscrew it it just clicks like if the screw is to tight to loosen, that mixed with muscle-less arms that ceiling isn't going no where. I was so cheerful and excited, but now all I can focus on is what I'm lacking knowledge, skill, muscle, tools, help . All the Youtube videos I watch everybody has friends and family, or there spouse . I just wish I would of noticed/ pay attention to those little detailed before but all I could see was an amazing skoolie that I JUST HAD TO HAVE! staying positive



We just bought our bus and are about to get started. My 2 boys (10 & 13) are super excited to help out, as is my wife. But I know from past experiences (such as a tree house and a model train set) how quickly my boys lose interest. I'm hoping this is different, but my crystal ball shows me doing this project on my own a few months from now. I'm wondering how old your kids are to predict if I'll be in a similar situation as you 3-months from now!


Aside from that, Good Luck! I think it is great how much encouragement others have given you in response to this post: I'm hoping it is helping. Even though I'm still in the excitement part of this endeavor, I found it encouraging to read the responses to your post since I'm sure I'll go through the frustrations and doubts as this project goes on.
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Old 09-20-2019, 07:06 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Danjo View Post
Removing the sheet from the ceiling removes some amount of shear strength, but how significant is it?

Have you inspected how an RV is constructed? Consider the difference in hat channel/sheet metal shell construction as compared to a Winnebago’s 1”x2” wood frame.
Bluebird Wanderlodges don't even have metal ceilings. They have cardboard panels. And half the ribs.
School buses are overbuilt and then some. Even with half the ribs and cardboard ceilings a wanderlodge is way overbuilt.
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Old 09-20-2019, 07:09 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
Insulation values per inch of insulation,

Fiberglass 3.14
foam board(styrofoam) 4.0
foam board polyurethane 5.0
spray foam 3.6 open cell

If you have no insulation of course taking down the ceiling and insulating would be worth it. But if there is insulation taking it out and putting something else in and keeping the thickness the same is going to make very little difference. I do not understand why so many believe that they have to pull off the ceiling for so little gain.

I removed a few panels in mine to add metal supports for the a/c and found 2" of good condition fiberglass, so I left the rest of the ceiling as it was.

Windows have an r value of something like .5, so this is real big loss. Blocking off unused windows and adding insulation there will be a much bigger gain.
Its because fiberglass sandwiched between steel sheets is horrible for comfort and avoiding condensation. So lots of folks ditch one side of that steel sandwich and replace the fiberglass fluff with something that's more suited for the job.
More than one way to skin a cat. I've been in some real nice buses with steel interiors, but nothing makes it feel like home quite like some wood and insulation.
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Old 09-20-2019, 07:25 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
Its because fiberglass sandwiched between steel sheets is horrible for comfort and avoiding condensation. So lots of folks ditch one side of that steel sandwich and replace the fiberglass fluff with something that's more suited for the job.
More than one way to skin a cat. I've been in some real nice buses with steel interiors, but nothing makes it feel like home quite like some wood and insulation.
You know I like wood, but decided to leave my ceiling metal and painted white to brighten it up a bit, with all the wood on the walls and everything thing else I think mine would have been to dark otherwise.

Just to be real if I am parked in the sun on a 95degree day one of my rooftop a/c will keep it comfortable, now if I want ice box cold to suit Christopher then both need to be going.
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Old 09-20-2019, 07:39 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
You know I like wood, but decided to leave my ceiling metal and painted white to brighten it up a bit, with all the wood on the walls and everything thing else I think mine would have been to dark otherwise.

Just to be real if I am parked in the sun on a 95degree day one of my rooftop a/c will keep it comfortable, now if I want ice box cold to suit Christopher then both need to be going.
Like I said- I've been in some amazing buses that retained the steel interior skins. Yours chief among them.
Its like a cozy spa in there man.

One of the nicest, coziest feeling bus ever is probably SuperDave's. Man it felt just like a solid old house in that thing. Hardwood flooring over insulation, insulated the whole bus with spray foam. It was so comfy and quiet in that bus I couldn't believe it. Had that "new empty house" sound in it.
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Old 09-20-2019, 08:39 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
Bluebird Wanderlodges don't even have metal ceilings. They have cardboard panels. And half the ribs.
School buses are overbuilt and then some. Even with half the ribs and cardboard ceilings a wanderlodge is way overbuilt.
The half-the-ribs thing is interesting because on my bus (typical) the roof and ceiling panels are only riveted to every other rib (the ceiling panels actually have like 4 or 5 rivets on the alternate ribs but that seems to be just to hold them up). If either the roof or the ceiling panels were a really critical part of the structure, that structure would be a lot stronger with the panels fully riveted to every rib.

It's also interesting that perforating sheet metal (like in the ceiling panels on my bus, done for acoustical reasons) weakens it significantly, which you might not want to do as an engineer if it were a major component of overall strength.

Buses are designed around safety/structural concerns but also economic ones. Perhaps sheet metal is used for the ceilings for durability rather than structural strength; where I went to school, the kids would have torn through cardboard ceilings and eaten the insulation.
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Old 09-20-2019, 08:47 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by musigenesis View Post
The half-the-ribs thing is interesting because on my bus (typical) the roof and ceiling panels are only riveted to every other rib (the ceiling panels actually have like 4 or 5 rivets on the alternate ribs but that seems to be just to hold them up). If either the roof or the ceiling panels were a really critical part of the structure, that structure would be a lot stronger with the panels fully riveted to every rib.

It's also interesting that perforating sheet metal (like in the ceiling panels on my bus, done for acoustical reasons) weakens it significantly, which you might not want to do as an engineer if it were a major component of overall strength.

Buses are designed around safety/structural concerns but also economic ones. Perhaps sheet metal is used for the ceilings for durability rather than structural strength; where I went to school, the kids would torn through cardboard ceilings and eaten the insulation.
I think you're correct on all counts man. THe perforated steel is to cut down on noise and echoing. As is the fiberglass insulation.
I've also noticed the less rivets every other rib on buses.

Some folks want a hellaciously stout foundation and I totally advocate being safe and all that jazz. But we have to have some perspective. Cutting a rib or two for some nice big windows or removing a metal headliner aren't going to cause these tanks to become dangerous or seriously compromised.
We all have different ideas and goals.
In the end we're all far better off in a rollover than any stick framed Winnie.
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Old 09-20-2019, 09:47 AM   #72
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Good trick to stubborn screws is tapping them with hammer or adding little heat (use caution).
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Old 09-20-2019, 08:07 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
Its so much more work drilling UP instead of DOWN! Had to put four half inch holes in my truck's frame to put in a hitch and man I was exhausted by the time I was done.
Next time just roll the truck on it's roof and drill down t your hearts content. I'll bet you never even considered that.
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Old 09-20-2019, 08:09 PM   #74
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You can avoid the whole issue of the structure being weakened by not allowing anyone to ride back in the modified part, which nobody should be doing anyway without properly anchored forward-facing seats with shoulder belts (something almost nobody does).
Or better yet, don't weaken the structure.
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Old 09-20-2019, 08:17 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo View Post
Removing the sheet from the ceiling removes some amount of shear strength, but how significant is it?

Have you inspected how an RV is constructed? Consider the difference in hat channel/sheet metal shell construction as compared to a Winnebago’s 1”x2” wood frame.
I just wanted to mention that the way RVs are constructed is exactly what made me gravitate to busses. Heaven forbid you roll your house over, but if it is a bus there will likely be much that is salvageable. If its an RV it is likely to scatter your forgetmenots for several hundred feet. There is a real beauty to the structural integrity of a school bus.
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