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Old 09-11-2018, 08:14 PM   #1
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Fresh Boondocking Water?

Hey Skoolies, I'm in the design phase and am looking into having a water inlet bay on one side or the other that will include the following:

*100' garden hose with a strainer or three in/on it
*A reel for the hose
*A DC pump to suck water through the hose
*At least a trio of water filters for:
....Sediment (washable)
....Charcoal (taste and odor)
....Very fine filter (for biohazards and some chemical)
....Maybe a UV filter too

I'm also open to DI, RO, and just about everything else. I might even put a softener onboard.

The idea here is to acquire water from nearly any source (within reason - even a campground) and purify it really well. This could make boondocking less limited, depending on the poo and food situation.

Got any thoughts? I'm ready to learn!

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Old 09-14-2018, 01:31 PM   #2
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Not sure in the filtration part, but from my understanding, pumps are better at pushing then pulling, so it might be necessary to get a pump that you can put in the water source and pump to the rig
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Old 09-14-2018, 06:55 PM   #3
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I got one of these filters based on a recommendation from my friend: https://amzn.to/2p7ql2b

You use it to filter the water before it goes into the tank. My friend typically fills up at gas stations and also uses a filter at his sink for drinking water.

I haven't installed my water system yet but I"m more or less copying what he did.
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Old 09-14-2018, 07:12 PM   #4
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Sounds like someone is well schooled in dialysis.... Nothing wrong with RO or DI water, just seems cost prohibitive.
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Old 09-15-2018, 12:47 PM   #5
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I bought one from these guys: https://waterfixercompany.com

Used it daily for over two years and am quite happy with it. Great customer service too.
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Old 09-15-2018, 03:13 PM   #6
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You won't be able to draw a suction on a garden hose. It WILL collapse.
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Old 09-15-2018, 03:15 PM   #7
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I have bought water filtration stuff from these people: https://www.rvwaterfilterstore.com/ .

I use a 3 stage unit with an UV unit for my roof collected water on my cabin. Screens on the gutter, then through a sand filter and into the cistern. After the pump it goes through the filters, filtered to like 1 micron, then the UV light.
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Old 09-16-2018, 06:22 AM   #8
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I understand an can appreciate the goal. If I were doing that, I would probably go with an RO system. They aren't cheap or simple but seem to do a fine job. This company & product has a great reputation in the sailing world.

That said, finding fresh water has a never been a problem in my five years of full-timing out west. However; I've always had big capacity (currently 150 gallon fresh tank) and that lasts a fairly long time.
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Old 09-16-2018, 08:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brokedown View Post
I got one of these filters based on a recommendation from my friend: https://amzn.to/2p7ql2b

You use it to filter the water before it goes into the tank. My friend typically fills up at gas stations and also uses a filter at his sink for drinking water.

I haven't installed my water system yet but I"m more or less copying what he did.
Thanks for sharing that.

What you have there is a standard RV filter in use in just about every RV at every campground. I don't know the size of the filtration (in microns) but it isn't for screening out the really nasty stuff, just taste and odor (to a degree). They're not expensive and are on the bottom end of the filtration scale.

The system I'm looking to build will be like a "tank" (think military). Those filters there are in the realm of "jeep". Or, if we were to quantify them on a scale, that one there is a 1 or a 2; I'm trying to get to a 9 or 10.

I do appreciate your input. I apologize if I'm coming off in the wrong way, I don't mean to.

Be blessed.

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Old 09-16-2018, 08:28 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Mango View Post
Sounds like someone is well schooled in dialysis.... Nothing wrong with RO or DI water, just seems cost prohibitive.
What's your health worth these days?
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Old 09-16-2018, 08:36 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
I bought one from these guys: https://waterfixercompany.com

Used it daily for over two years and am quite happy with it. Great customer service too.
That's getting there - close to what I'm looking to accomplish. I didn't see the spec's on your linked page. Maybe I skimmed too fast. Got Microns?

I'm looking to use at least three filters in my system.

How often have you changed the filters? What frequency of use do they get? (Daily, weekly, monthly...) What kind of duty are they expected to perform? (Heavily contaminated with silt and debris, moderate, light...)

Thanks for sharing so far.

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Old 09-16-2018, 08:43 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by CaptSquid View Post
You won't be able to draw a suction on a garden hose. It WILL collapse.
It's not an actual "garden hose" strictly speaking. I'm contemplating the kind in use in RVs, that's "food grade". Have you had experience with this? Do you know of a reinforced hose that will work? Do you know at what pressure it begins to fail (or like with a 6 gpm pump)?

I know that garden hoses come in all kinds of different strengths, there's no real standard. If the hose were to be easily squeezed by hand then I would expect it to fail. If not, then not. (Pretty scientific, huh?)

Great input! Give me more, please.

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Old 09-16-2018, 08:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDOnTheGo View Post
I understand an can appreciate the goal. If I were doing that, I would probably go with an RO system. They aren't cheap or simple but seem to do a fine job. This company & product has a great reputation in the sailing world.

That said, finding fresh water has a never been a problem in my five years of full-timing out west. However; I've always had big capacity (currently 150 gallon fresh tank) and that lasts a fairly long time.
Water MAKER! This is great! I totally forgot about that tech. I wonder if it can keep up with demand in the southwest where there isn't any real humidity.

Best suggestion yet, my friend. I'm going to spend about a week looking into this again (I've studied this technology before, it's totally wicked).

Way to rock my day!

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Old 09-16-2018, 08:53 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bus-bro View Post
I have bought water filtration stuff from these people: https://www.rvwaterfilterstore.com/ .

I use a 3 stage unit with an UV unit for my roof collected water on my cabin. Screens on the gutter, then through a sand filter and into the cistern. After the pump it goes through the filters, filtered to like 1 micron, then the UV light.
Thanks for the link. I'll check them out.

Water collection is a great supplemental method! I like it! It sounds like you've got things really dialed in. Your system sounds very similar to what I'm hoping to accomplish.

I find this very inspiring. Mucho apreciado, Amigo!

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Old 09-16-2018, 09:43 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G Dub View Post
It's not an actual "garden hose" strictly speaking. I'm contemplating the kind in use in RVs, that's "food grade". Have you had experience with this? Do you know of a reinforced hose that will work? Do you know at what pressure it begins to fail (or like with a 6 gpm pump)?

I know that garden hoses come in all kinds of different strengths, there's no real standard. If the hose were to be easily squeezed by hand then I would expect it to fail. If not, then not. (Pretty scientific, huh?)

Great input! Give me more, please.

G Dub
All of the garden hoses or rv hoses I've seen are definitely for pressurized water not vacuum. Even the most sturdy hoses become pliable when sitting in the sun. Black poly pipe is the best, cheap option for suction hose in my opinion. It is difficult to kink and keeps its shape well even when hot. The downside is that it's a pain in the arse to roll up.
You can also buy proper suction hose with the integral wire loops, but that stuff is pricey!
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Old 09-16-2018, 10:04 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G Dub View Post
That's getting there - close to what I'm looking to accomplish. I didn't see the spec's on your linked page. Maybe I skimmed too fast. Got Microns?

I'm looking to use at least three filters in my system.

How often have you changed the filters? What frequency of use do they get? (Daily, weekly, monthly...) What kind of duty are they expected to perform? (Heavily contaminated with silt and debris, moderate, light...)

Thanks for sharing so far.

G Dub
I lived with rain & creek water as my only water supply for 2-1/2 years.

Filter change frequency varried considerably depending on conditions. Anywhere from two weeks to over 3 months. Spring polen bloom was the worst time of year.

I did also use a first flush diverter.
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Old 09-16-2018, 10:14 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by jazty View Post
All of the garden hoses or rv hoses I've seen are definitely for pressurized water not vacuum. Even the most sturdy hoses become pliable when sitting in the sun. Black poly pipe is the best, cheap option for suction hose in my opinion. It is difficult to kink and keeps its shape well even when hot. The downside is that it's a pain in the arse to roll up.
You can also buy proper suction hose with the integral wire loops, but that stuff is pricey!
I'm thinking that the amount of inward pressure would be due to the amount of water in the hose. (?)

I just did a very quick search on how much water is in a 100' garden hose. Here's the result:

"Using these mathematical conversions, you can calculate the volume of water inside a 3/4-inch hose to be 1.01 gallons. The volume inside a 5/8-inch hose is 0.57 gallon, and inside a 1/2-inch hose, there are 0.25 gallon of water."

This came from https://www.hunker.com/13404449/how-...rden-hose-hold

I plan on using either a 3/4" or 5/8" hose (whichever makes the most sense).

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around a gallon of water (8.34 lbs.) displaced over the entire length of the hose being a problem for a fairly hefty hose. It would be a fun experiment. The parameters can quickly boggle the mind though:
  • Lift height
  • Run
  • Diameter
  • Strength of suction
  • Composition of hose material
  • Actual flow after a percentage of blockage due to debris and/or filtration

It would be fun to see when things go south.
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Old 09-16-2018, 10:17 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
I lived with rain & creek water as my only water supply for 2-1/2 years.

Filter change frequency varried considerably depending on conditions. Anywhere from two weeks to over 3 months. Spring polen bloom was the worst time of year.

I did also use a first flush diverter.
I had forgotten about first flush diverters. Thanks for reminding me!
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Old 09-20-2018, 01:19 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G Dub View Post
I'm thinking that the amount of inward pressure would be due to the amount of water in the hose. (?)

I just did a very quick search on how much water is in a 100' garden hose. Here's the result:

"Using these mathematical conversions, you can calculate the volume of water inside a 3/4-inch hose to be 1.01 gallons. The volume inside a 5/8-inch hose is 0.57 gallon, and inside a 1/2-inch hose, there are 0.25 gallon of water."

This came from https://www.hunker.com/13404449/how-...rden-hose-hold

I plan on using either a 3/4" or 5/8" hose (whichever makes the most sense).

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around a gallon of water (8.34 lbs.) displaced over the entire length of the hose being a problem for a fairly hefty hose. It would be a fun experiment. The parameters can quickly boggle the mind though:
  • Lift height
  • Run
  • Diameter
  • Strength of suction
  • Composition of hose material
  • Actual flow after a percentage of blockage due to debris and/or filtration

It would be fun to see when things go south.





You are completely off track. These guys are telling you straight. A typical water hose is not built to handle suction, only pressure. Just hook one up and see. We all have made that mistake. If you have to use one have the pump push thru the hose.


For an easily seen example grab an unopened soda can (closed system, full of liquid) and squeeze it. Now open the can (open system, full of liquid) and squeeze it. Your hand is acting like atmospheric pressure pushing inward on the can. The can, like the garden hose, is built to restrain an outward pressure, not an inward pressure. When the can is closed and full of liquid, it is the fact that liquids are not compressible and that there is no where for the liquid to go that prevents the can from collapsing (the slight flex that you see is the CO2 & air inside the can compressing). Liquids not being compressible is how/why hydraulic brake systems work.


"Wrap your head" around this - 14.7 p.s.i atmospheric pressure is pushing inward along and around the outside of the 100' of hose and if you are on the suction end of the pump the pump is lowering the pressure inside of the hose anytime it is operating. The amount of water inside the hose has nothing to do with it. The hose could be full of air (empty) and the result would still be a collapsed hose after the pump turned on. Enough air and/or water will flow out of the hose to allow the atmospheric pressure to collapse it after the pump reduces the pressure inside the hose.



The comment about pumps pushing better than pulling is also correct. Not sure why, but I think it has something to do with liquids not being compressible and assume the shape of the container, but when you try to stretch them they quickly hourglass till they completely come apart (negligible tension strength). Crappy analogy would be that it is kinda like it is the opposite of pulling a string as opposed to pushing it. String only uses tension? The rigidity of the hose as opposed to a pipe probably has something to do with it. OK, I am lost now.


BTW, the white potable water hoses seem to be the weakest and collapse the easiest.


To me it is not "fun to see when things go south." Might be because I was raised as a southerner. LOL, I prefer to see them go north.
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Old 09-20-2018, 02:22 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G Dub View Post
Water MAKER! This is great! I totally forgot about that tech. I wonder if it can keep up with demand in the southwest where there isn't any real humidity.

Best suggestion yet, my friend. I'm going to spend about a week looking into this again (I've studied this technology before, it's totally wicked).

Way to rock my day!

G Dub

This "Water MAKER!" converts water to potable water (boats are surrounded by water) It does not convert humidity into potable water.


However, if you find something (portable or not)that does convert humidity into potable water, besides energy intensive refrigeration systems and fog based systems, please let us know. I for one would be very interested.
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