Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-30-2020, 07:29 AM   #1
Bus Geek
 
musigenesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 3,018
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
Fuel tank rust dilemma

My fuel tank (and the frame supporting it) and the floor above are fairly rusted like the rest of my floor. Naturally, I can't access the underside of the floor in this area from outside because the tank is in the way.

I don't want to do anything as drastic as cutting the entire floor out above the tank, but what I am considering is cutting out the 8" or so flat strips of floor between each crossmember on the underside. Here's a pic of where I want to cut the floor:

fueltankfloor.png

With these openings cut out, I could access everywhere on the underside here and ospho and paint it and also deal with the top of the fuel tank itself. Then I would screw/bolt/plugweld a single large patch down over these openings (apparently there are weld-through seam sealers that I could use here, which I have to experiment with).

Is there an easier way to deal with this problem? How difficult is it to drop the fuel tank temporarily to allow easy access to the underside? I'd rather not cut these additional holes in the floor if I don't have to.

Is there anything to worry about during the demo as far as the fuel tank itself is concerned? Like, any wires or something I'm likely to cut through?
__________________
Rusty 87 build thread
musigenesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2020, 07:50 AM   #2
Bus Geek
 
brokedown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Weeki Wachee, FL
Posts: 3,019
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: Cummins 5.9
Rated Cap: 72
if you think Ospho is enough to fix it, i've had good luck with spraying it. You can get one of those pump up sprayer kits from Home Depot and cover the top of the tank through that existing hole.

Something like this.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-1-Ga...HDXA/307766754

Painting it could be more of a challenge since spray cans tend to only work upright...
__________________
Keep up with us and our build!
Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and Twitter
brokedown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2020, 08:04 AM   #3
Bus Geek
 
musigenesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 3,018
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokedown View Post
if you think Ospho is enough to fix it, i've had good luck with spraying it. You can get one of those pump up sprayer kits from Home Depot and cover the top of the tank through that existing hole.

Something like this.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-1-Ga...HDXA/307766754

Painting it could be more of a challenge since spray cans tend to only work upright...
It would be kind of tough just getting coverage with the ospho. The whole underside here (and the tank) was originally covered with an undercoating which is now flaking off in a lot of places. Reaching through the hole I might be able to douse the top of the tank but not the underside of the rest of the floor above the tank.
__________________
Rusty 87 build thread
musigenesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2020, 08:11 AM   #4
Bus Geek
 
brokedown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Weeki Wachee, FL
Posts: 3,019
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: Cummins 5.9
Rated Cap: 72
if the tank is empty you could drop it, the fuel lines should all be hard metal coming in and removable with a wrench.There are different setups for filler pipes, I've seen some metal attached to rubber attached to metal and I've see just straight metal. It's not unheard of although I haven't done it personally. A floor jack would make the lifting up and down part easy.

I have an aversion to cutting holes in my bus and would try just about any other option first.
__________________
Keep up with us and our build!
Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and Twitter
brokedown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2020, 08:16 AM   #5
Bus Geek
 
musigenesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 3,018
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
Heh, holes in my floor don't really bother me for some reason.

My tank is about 3/4 full right now, unfortunately.
__________________
Rusty 87 build thread
musigenesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2020, 08:20 AM   #6
Bus Geek
 
brokedown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Weeki Wachee, FL
Posts: 3,019
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: Cummins 5.9
Rated Cap: 72
Sounds like you need to drive bit to burn off that excess fuel. See you at the Skoolie Swarm?

I just re-mounted my diesel heater yesterday which involved a reciprocating saw with a metal blade cutting through our finished floor and metal floor pan. It's still fresh in my mind, I hated it! Worst thus far has to be the 4 inch hole saw I used to run my shower drain.
__________________
Keep up with us and our build!
Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and Twitter
brokedown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2020, 10:32 AM   #7
Bus Crazy
 
banman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,194
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner FS-65
Engine: 7.2L Cat 3126 turbo diesel
Rated Cap: 71 passenger 30,000 gvwr
Eastwood makes a product called "chassis saver". They also make a spray-wand setup for it worth your checking out. Some of the IHC folks like it more than por-15.

Cutting up your floor has an element of risk unless you can see that no fuel lines are running close to where you might cut...

Best way would be to drop the tank. A transmission jack will handle the bulky object better... At 7lbs/gallon you'll wanna transfer most of that fuel...
The 33gal tank in my Scout weighs 80lbs empty -- it's difficult for me to wrestle with by myself but I managed.

I assume your tank is inside a cage like mine (dot safety reg for school buses).
Is your cage bolted to the frame or welded? Maybe lower them both together with four screw jacks on the corners of the cage?

You will need to remove the flaky undercoat/paint to properly treat surface rust and repaint.
__________________
David

The Murder Bus
banman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2020, 02:27 PM   #8
Bus Nut
 
sportyrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: mid Mo.
Posts: 348
Year: 1976
Coachwork: bluebird
Chassis: F33695
Engine: 427 chevy converted to 466
Rated Cap: 84
Tanks aren't hard to drop out, after a good clean out I had mine sandblasted and powder coated so I wouldn't have to ever worry about it again. There were a couple rust spots where the strap meets the tank so I patched them before sandblasting.
sportyrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2020, 09:04 PM   #9
Bus Geek
 
musigenesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 3,018
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
{oops, wrong thread}
__________________
Rusty 87 build thread
musigenesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2020, 03:59 AM   #10
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,739
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas Built Bus
Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
It's your thread you can post here if you want.
Native is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2020, 08:13 AM   #11
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Mt Vernon, WA
Posts: 310
Year: 1996
Coachwork: Bluebird, Collins
Chassis: G30 Bluebird Microbird, E350 Shuttle Bus
Engine: 1995 Chevrolet 350, 1992 Ford 460
I tried a oil paint additive called Owatrol Oil on a rusty truck frame. I mixed it with equipment paint which is pretty tough by itself. I was impressed with the results to give the truck a few more years.
https://www.owatrolusa.com/product/owatrol-oil/
If I couldnít drop the fuel tank I would treat it several times with Ospho then paint it with Owatrol/equipment paint. Then pray.
Doktari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2020, 02:02 PM   #12
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Golden Valley AZ
Posts: 553
Year: 1993
Chassis: ThomasBuilt 30'
Engine: need someone to tell me
Rated Cap: me + 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by musigenesis View Post
My fuel tank (and the frame supporting it) and the floor above are fairly rusted like the rest of my floor. Naturally, I can't access the underside of the floor in this area from outside because the tank is in the way.

I don't want to do anything as drastic as cutting the entire floor out above the tank, but what I am considering is cutting out the 8" or so flat strips of floor between each crossmember on the underside. Here's a pic of where I want to cut the floor:

Attachment 41237

With these openings cut out, I could access everywhere on the underside here and ospho and paint it and also deal with the top of the fuel tank itself. Then I would screw/bolt/plugweld a single large patch down over these openings (apparently there are weld-through seam sealers that I could use here, which I have to experiment with).

Is there an easier way to deal with this problem? How difficult is it to drop the fuel tank temporarily to allow easy access to the underside? I'd rather not cut these additional holes in the floor if I don't have to.

Is there anything to worry about during the demo as far as the fuel tank itself is concerned? Like, any wires or something I'm likely to cut through?



If you have/rent/borrow an inspection camera, shove it in the hole and check it out. Ypu may be ok since the gas tank is shielding it.
kidharris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2020, 05:41 PM   #13
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Princeton, IN
Posts: 37
Year: 2006
Chassis: International
Engine: dt466
Rated Cap: 78
When I bought my bus, one of the things wrong with it was tank starting to leak. I think it is rust and wear from the straps. I was going to drop it, so this thread may be helpful. It isn't a very bad leak, but it's on the todo list to fix.
neversayneverbus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2020, 06:51 PM   #14
Bus Nut
 
TheHubbardBus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hotzona
Posts: 932
Year: 2003
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: 3800
Engine: Navistar T444e
Rated Cap: 24
I think I'd be inclined to agree w/ the others suggesting pulling the tank. At least trying to. It sounds like one of those jobs where trying to find work your way around something you hope to avoid (aka pulling the tank) ends up being more of a pain than if you had just dealt with it up front. Be the best way to ascertain the condition of the tank & deal with it as well, if necessary.
__________________
-Sharon & Jody
Mr Beefy Short Bus Acquisition & Build Thread
TheHubbardBus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2020, 07:20 PM   #15
Bus Crazy
 
banman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,194
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner FS-65
Engine: 7.2L Cat 3126 turbo diesel
Rated Cap: 71 passenger 30,000 gvwr
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus View Post
I think I'd be inclined to agree w/ the others suggesting pulling the tank. At least trying to. It sounds like one of those jobs where trying to find work your way around something you hope to avoid (aka pulling the tank) ends up being more of a pain than if you had just dealt with it up front. Be the best way to ascertain the condition of the tank & deal with it as well, if necessary.
Yup...
Reminding me that one of my tank straps is broken -- since it's supported by the cage I haven't worried about it but that amount of weight left to rub just a little bit could cause an issue...

Anytime I'm on the fence about investigating the condition of a part I'd rather not bother with I ask myself; if this was one of my assigned aircraft would I be hesitating, or recommending "deferred maintenance", or tearing it apart...?
__________________
David

The Murder Bus
banman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2020, 07:54 PM   #16
Bus Geek
 
musigenesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 3,018
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
Unfortunately I lack the experience, tools and a place where I could drop the tank. Even if I could pay some place to do it, they wouldn't then let me spend a few days treating and painting the underside there before putting it back up.

I took a peek in the access hole today, and there's like an inch thick layer of debris on top of the tank, and a few of the loose seat brackets. I wouldn't be surprised to find some of my missing tools down there. Surgery is tomorrow morning.
__________________
Rusty 87 build thread
musigenesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2020, 08:21 PM   #17
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,739
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas Built Bus
Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
Good luck with the surgery. I know you will keep us posted.
Native is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2020, 09:53 PM   #18
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Golden Valley AZ
Posts: 553
Year: 1993
Chassis: ThomasBuilt 30'
Engine: need someone to tell me
Rated Cap: me + 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by musigenesis View Post
Unfortunately I lack the experience, tools and a place where I could drop the tank. Even if I could pay some place to do it, they wouldn't then let me spend a few days treating and painting the underside there before putting it back up.

I took a peek in the access hole today, and there's like an inch thick layer of debris on top of the tank, and a few of the loose seat brackets. I wouldn't be surprised to find some of my missing tools down there. Surgery is tomorrow morning.

Are you fire proof?
kidharris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2020, 09:56 PM   #19
Bus Geek
 
musigenesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 3,018
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidharris View Post
Are you fire proof?
I don't think so. I set fire to my lawn a few weeks ago when my leg was on it, and it hurt.

Why do you ask? I'm not planning on cutting my floor with an acetylene torch or anything.
__________________
Rusty 87 build thread
musigenesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2020, 10:08 PM   #20
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Golden Valley AZ
Posts: 553
Year: 1993
Chassis: ThomasBuilt 30'
Engine: need someone to tell me
Rated Cap: me + 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by musigenesis View Post
I don't think so. I set fire to my lawn a few weeks ago when my leg was on it, and it hurt.

Why do you ask? I'm not planning on cutting my floor with an acetylene torch or anything.



Cut off wheels throw sparks and hot slag. While I know diesel is not flammable like gasoline, it would still bother me to have sparks around it.

I've survived one explosion (natural gas)and set myself on fire twice (welding), enough to make me cautious. Walking thru fire is not much fun ether.


I'm thinking set some trash or oil on top of the tank on fire, then what?
kidharris is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×