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Old 12-29-2019, 04:12 PM   #1
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Gillig Voith shift pattern

All,

It looks like I will be picking up my new Gillig on Friday. Trying to figure out how long it will take me to get home if everything works, ha ha, LOL..

Anyway, from what info I have and can find, I can not ID whether my bus has an Voith overdrive or not. That would be a big difference in cruise speed.

Again, from what I read, the 3 speeds were 50 mph machines and the 4 speeds faster, but not sure how much faster.

One of the puzzles is the picture of the shift buttons, which has 1,2, 3, 3, N, R. I do see where the last 3, N and R are raised, which leads me to believe it has overdrive. But I have no idea as I have never seen a Gillig in person, much less been in one.

Anyway, picture attached.

2001 Gilig Model C27B102N4
VIN: 1GGB271411071428

I did email Gillig yesterday to see if they can give me any service records of build data.

Any experience with the 1,2,3,3 pattern would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

BaconFarms
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File Type: jpg Voith shift pattern.jpg (53.3 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg GJ9180B.jpg (77.2 KB, 16 views)
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Old 12-29-2019, 04:58 PM   #2
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My guess would be that the 2nd 3 is actually DRIVE in automatic mode. use the 1,2,3 for manual operation. Am I wrong?
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Old 12-29-2019, 05:09 PM   #3
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My guess would be that the 2nd 3 is actually DRIVE in automatic mode. use the 1,2,3 for manual operation. Am I wrong?
I was wondering that myself ?
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Old 12-29-2019, 05:27 PM   #4
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I am hoping not, but is suspect that also. Be a long trip home.

Nice to see what a OD has in that spot. Maybe a 4..

Thanks,

BaconFarms
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Old 12-29-2019, 05:57 PM   #5
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Well, I feel a little better now. I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but there was 9 other buses for sale, with the same setups.

Of the four I checked three had a D in that second 3 spot and one had a 1.

So, I'm thinking they ran out of dee's on the service shelf and robbed a 3 from a take-out.

So, hopefully it is 1,2,3,D,N and R and D is 4th..

Fingers crossed,

BaconFarms
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Old 12-29-2019, 11:59 PM   #6
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Something that has confounded me:

I see tons of Voith transmissions in transit buses but I have never seen a Voith service shop.

What's up with that?

I recall a member here having trouble with the Voith transmission in their bus while in Seattle. They got towed to two different shops. Neither one was able to help them. IIRC: they wound up selling the bus for scrap value.
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Old 12-30-2019, 12:00 AM   #7
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Sometimes I really hate auto correct...
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Old 12-30-2019, 07:23 AM   #8
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from what ive known of bus operators at least in columbus and other areas of ohio is that they ship and exchange transmissions from the york PA.. im not sure of where you actually get one fixed..



COTA for instance runs a pretty much all Gillig Low-floor fleet and keeps drivetrains on the shelf and just swaps.. they send the bad Voiths to york PA..



in teresting thing is that the largest portion of their busses make it to overhaul(500-600k) with no transmission trouble.. and thats running stop n go city routes..



I have no idea what the hours / miles are on your gillig .. am guessing it was likely close to overhaul time when retired.. (I know COTA runs a bus till it reaches overhaul time and then auctions it if it is a unit that is up for replacement.. they want their $$ worth out of the bus)..



I would do the normal transmission checks we all do... fluid for smell-color-level, and drive it... Voith transmissions shift very crisply with a definite flare on the 1-2 shift (dont let that one scare you.. it feels like a slip).. and a solid positive engagement into lockup and subsequent gears..



if your bus isnt equipped with gauges.. (many city busses have none to very few.. and just a bunch of idiot lights).. then buy a J1939 device like a Bluefire or scangauge-D so you can watch the engine / trans temps / pressures as you drive her home..



its a city bus dont expect much more than 65 or 70 Max speed.. Gilligs are beautoful busses. but learn it before you just tear it into pieces.. esp the wiring.. depending on your year there can be a lot of multiplex or networked components for the doors / lights / Air-Con / Heat, etc.. things that may very well throw the drivetrain in limp mode if you just start cutting..

-Christopher
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Old 12-30-2019, 08:48 AM   #9
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This bus has 460,000+ miles on it. The city that had these has a 12 year/500,000 miles swap out guide, but apparently held onto these for 5 more years.

From all the reading I can find, the Gillig is a decent bus.

From what I can find on the Voight transmission is they are great, but, yeah, I thing they just swap them out when bad.

I sent an email to Gillig and the city's transit authority for where the bus came from for maintenance and build data records, so I hope they send me something.

Like I said before, this bus is a shot in the dark, but it has everything I am looking for to try out the possibility of traveling with my disabled wife. If it don't make it or pan out, I won't be out a bunch.

Thanks,

BaconFarms
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Old 12-30-2019, 08:52 AM   #10
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The bus has speedometer, volt meter, oil pressure and temperature gauges.

No tach, and especially concerning, no FUEL gauge.

That will take some trip planning.. LOL,

BaconFarms
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Old 12-30-2019, 09:47 AM   #11
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I've never heard of a voith transmission being repaired, or voith repair shops. They're not that common outside of city transit service, so their numbers are inherently small.

They are a neat design if one ever compares them to a traditional automatic transmission. Their "torque converter" is internal to the transmission, and only functional during 1st gear. 1st gear, being torque converter powered, has a really odd ratio. So where your typical auto would have shifted 2-3 times, this thing essentially uses hydraulics and torque multiplication to move. Then, once it is up to speed, it shifts into 2nd, then direct, then overdrive. Those 3 shifts are all mechanical connections, and being that they're not spinning the torque converter like a traditional transmission, they have low inertia and drag, making them pretty efficient.

Like was said, all you can really do is make sure the fluid is topped up and in good shape. And definitely do that because 1st gear operation is hard on it. They also have a pretty regular fluid replacement interval for the transmission, so see if you can get service records for it and continue to follow them.
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Old 12-30-2019, 09:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaconFarms View Post
The bus has speedometer, volt meter, oil pressure and temperature gauges.

No tach, and especially concerning, no FUEL gauge.

That will take some trip planning.. LOL,

BaconFarms
No fuel gauge? Of all the things to save a few dollars on
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:01 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaconFarms View Post
The bus has speedometer, volt meter, oil pressure and temperature gauges.

No tach, and especially concerning, no FUEL gauge.

That will take some trip planning.. LOL,

BaconFarms
Congratulations on your purchase! I hope it makes a good bus for you!

Our 2017 New Flyers (Xcisor CNGs) are the same way, $750,000 bus brand new and a fuel gauge is an option we didn't pay for. 3,000 psi on the gauge in the CNG fill door is full tho and it'll run basically all day on that.

I don't believe our old Gilligs are the same way tho. We had a quartet of former HART buses that we got well used and got our money out of out them a good while ago. One was sent for scrap when I started. Another blew the clutch on the AC compressor and rather than do the $350 repair they decided to cannibalize the bus for a few months then scrap it. Now the highest mile one of the bunch just went down with I think a coolant leak and bad alternator. 750,000 miles and we've never had transmissions issues on any of them.

Best of luck!
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:13 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
No fuel gauge? Of all the things to save a few dollars on

route busses.. they are filled after every shift or every day... a lot of greyhounds didnt have gfas gauges either.. they filled them at every major stop..


fuel gauges are one of the first and most-often things to repair


-Christopher
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:51 AM   #15
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No fuel gauge for me either. I know how many miles I can go, and fill then. Have had a few trucks that way so kind of used to it.
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:53 AM   #16
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your loadstar didnt come with one? that is unusual from, what ive seen
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:57 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker4449 View Post
Congratulations on your purchase! I hope it makes a good bus for you!

Our 2017 New Flyers (Xcisor CNGs) are the same way, $750,000 bus brand new and a fuel gauge is an option we didn't pay for. 3,000 psi on the gauge in the CNG fill door is full tho and it'll run basically all day on that.

I don't believe our old Gilligs are the same way tho. We had a quartet of former HART buses that we got well used and got our money out of out them a good while ago. One was sent for scrap when I started. Another blew the clutch on the AC compressor and rather than do the $350 repair they decided to cannibalize the bus for a few months then scrap it. Now the highest mile one of the bunch just went down with I think a coolant leak and bad alternator. 750,000 miles and we've never had transmissions issues on any of them.

Best of luck!

all of our new city busses are CNG.. pretty much the last 5 years all new buys are.. enough so now the city built their own fueling station. with i think 8 or 10 pumps.
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Old 12-30-2019, 11:16 AM   #18
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your loadstar didnt come with one? that is unusual from, what ive seen
Yes but it does not work, and I changed the sending unit to get it working for a day.... Gave up after that.
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Old 12-30-2019, 11:50 AM   #19
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Loadstars are Notoriopus for craptastic grounds to the individual instrunents.. the fuel gauge sender can on a bad scenerio end up being the "ground" for the other gauges... what happens is you might notice fuel level affects other gauges.. this means they are grounding through the sender.. burns up the sender coil and no more fuel gauge worky..
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Old 12-30-2019, 02:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
Something that has confounded me:

I see tons of Voith transmissions in transit buses but I have never seen a Voith service shop.

What's up with that?

I recall a member here having trouble with the Voith transmission in their bus while in Seattle. They got towed to two different shops. Neither one was able to help them. IIRC: they wound up selling the bus for scrap value.
Do you enjoy giving me bus PTSD? JkJk

It seemed as if the first shop didn't even want to touch the bus and didn't have the proper equipment/cables. The second shop had the same issue with their diagnostics, but they saw debris in the tranny fluid and then drained it. An employee at the second shop worked with me to explore replacing it with a more well-known brand, but didn't think it was possible. I also towed it to the first location through rush hour traffic because they were the only place nearby that had "Voith experience." The bus was stranded across the country and I had exhausted my funds. Bye bye bus. Oh well, I was handed a bomb(retarder) just waiting to explode.

I wouldn't blame the transmission brand completely. It was mostly the seller being dishonest AFTER the purchase with nothing to gain from it except my misery. If you find you're happy with its operation, find a shop that is familiar with them and telling the truth in case it gives you trouble at some point.
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