Hard start/no start DT 466

Abbott · 11-18-2007, 02:43 PM

IH DT 466

My bus hasn’t been started for about 2-weeks, now I need to move it. It will turn over fine; plenty of battery power but the engine will not fire. I have the engine heater plugged in and still no fire…unless I use Starting Fluid in the air intake. Then the engine will turn over and run as long as I keep spraying in the starting fluid. When I do get the engine running on the Starting Fluid using the accelerator pedal has no effect on the engine, just the fluid itself seems to be firing. The second I stop spraying the engine dies.

I have the engine heater plugged in for over 12 hours now and still no fire without starting fluid.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

crazycal · 11-18-2007, 03:21 PM

How cold is it up there? Fuel might have gelled. Check your fuel filter, fuel pump and don't forget to make sure you have fuel. I know it sounds stupid to say, but I know from personal experience.

Hopefully it's not your injection pump. I wouldn't use a whole lot of that starting fluid. Using it as an aid is one thing, letting your engine run on it can't be too good. I'm not a mechanic, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Abbott · 11-18-2007, 03:34 PM

Half-tank of fuel. It's been getting down into the 30's at night.

crazycal · 11-18-2007, 03:42 PM

Maybe try to pour hot water on your fuel lines to warm them up. Start at your injectors and work backwards. I don't know that 30 degrees would gel your fuel, but it won't cost you anything to try it. Don't forget to pat your head with your left hand while rubbing your stomach with your right and jump up and down on your left foot. Or was that the right?

Abbott · 11-18-2007, 03:44 PM

Heh, ok, It may work. The Bus was running perfectly when I parked it.

crazycal · 11-18-2007, 03:51 PM

Let me know if it was the right or left foot.

the_experience03 · 11-18-2007, 06:51 PM

I had an issue with an air leak causing the fuel in the lines to bleed back down. You might have a similar problem. I would change the filters and prime the system. If nothing else, crack an injector line at the injector to make sure you are getting fuel that far forward.

Abbott · 11-18-2007, 07:16 PM

How do you prime the system?

I was thinking of replacing the fuel filter and filling the new one with fresh fuel..

the_experience03 · 11-18-2007, 08:18 PM

I'm thinking you should have a similar primer to mine. It is a little plunger on the injector pump that you unscrew. You pump it until your arm goes numb (about 100 times) and crack either the bleeder on the filter housing or an injector line. Either way you will likely have to do it a couple of times before it runs. Once you get it cranked over and running it will be angry for a few if there is still some air in the system. Hold the go pedal to the floor and just let it try and clear itself. If it doesn't you need to bleed it some more. It won't take long before you understand why a lot of us have installed electric priming pumps.

The primer is the little round thing below the two gray steel lines and to the right of the black rubber hose.

Abbott · 11-18-2007, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_experience03

I'm thinking you should have a similar primer to mine.

Thanks! I have my bus parked on the power line road next to my property while I removed some trees, dropped a couple dump truck loads of gravel and did some grading. I'm all done with the driveway and the new parking area and I need to get the bus moved and parked for the winter. I will use the information you and Cal posted tomorrow and see if I can't get the darn thing running. I have had the in-line hose heater and the battery charger/minder plugged in and running over night for the past day or so. I also purchased some fuel treatment that is supposed to treat gelled fuel, I should be able to get the thing running tomorrow.

crazycal · 11-20-2007, 12:40 AM

Any luck?

beekay · 11-20-2007, 06:11 AM

I had a similar no start problem with my 5.9 Cummins when I stopped to take a break in a rest stop. It would run ok on starter fluid but would immediately die after I stopped spraying. It turned out to be the shut down solenoid. Seems like it put the motor into "off" regardless of the ignition key position.

Abbott · 11-20-2007, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beekay

I had a similar no start problem with my 5.9 Cummins when I stopped to take a break in a rest stop. It would run ok on starter fluid but would immediately die after I stopped spraying. It turned out to be the shut down solenoid. Seems like it put the motor into "off" regardless of the ignition key position.

Thanks, I will add that to the list of items to look for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazycal

Any luck?

Not yet, the weather turned to crap, I am hoping to have it moved by Thanksgiving. My satellite television provider doesn't supply Network television channels, so I don't get to watch much Football. I planned to build my wife a nice heavy duty garden wagon (I have four wheel-barrow wheels and tires) on Thanksgiving Day but it looks like I may be working on my bus instead.

lapeer20m · 11-20-2007, 11:27 AM

if you have to pull a handle to shut your motor down then you don't have a fuel shutoff solenoid but rather mechanical linkage (or cable) between the lever you pull to shut her down and the fuel cut-off on the side of the injector pump.

are you sure the handle is pushed all the way in?

have someone move the handle in/out while you look at the injector pump and watch the corresponding fuel-cut off lever move back/fourth. If it doesn't move, then that's your problem.

It's very likely to me that it's air in the diesel line. Follow the directions in the above post to prime the system and see if she'll start.

Abbott · 11-20-2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lapeer20m

if you have to pull a handle to shut your motor down then you don't have a fuel shutoff solenoid (snipped)

Yes, I do have a "fuel kill" pull handle. Thanks for that tip, I will certainly look into it!

Abbott · 11-22-2007, 08:10 PM

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

My bus is running, covered with tarps and parked for the winter. I ran the block heater and battery charger on it for the past 48 hours. This morning I checked the fuel kill pull-handle and cable, it was operating correctly. I then located the manual fuel primer on the injector pump. It is round, made from black plastic and about the size of a 12-gauge shotgun shell. It is also spring loaded so once pushed down it returns up to it's starting position automatically. The primer was easy to get to and very easy to depress. It took about 20 seconds to push it down 100 times and let it spring back up, the engine then turned over and fired right up, all while hoping on my right foot. Problem solved. Thanks guys, this Forum is a friendly and fantastic resource!

the_experience03 · 11-22-2007, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abbott

Problem solved.

Well...sorta. The bus starts now which is great, but now you have some homework to do. The fuel travels in a closed system. There should be no reason why it would lose prime in a day, week, or eternity as long as everything is tight. Maybe it isn't a big deal to you to have to pump the primer a few times every couple of months when you start it, but that does mean that fuel might be getting out or contaminants in so I would start figuring out where the leak is if I were you.

For what it's worth I hit my primer a few times if my bus has been sitting for a long time (10-15 pumps). I have an incredibly small leak and I know where it is. I really don't even think I need to hit the primer, but I do.

Abbott · 11-22-2007, 11:52 PM

The cold weather came in all off a sudden, which it tends to do this time of year. I am guessing that it was due to the cold weather and the fact I hadn't added any fuel stabilizer. I added enough to the tank a couple of days ago to treat what I estimated to be about 30 gallons of fuel. Today I idled the bus for about 20 minutes and then drove it a few hundred feet, I then backed it in to it's winter parking. I believe that sloshed the remaining fuel around in the tank enough to mix the stabilizer with the fuel and that the engine ran long enough to refill the lines and fuel pump with the treated fuel.

wtom24 · 11-26-2007, 05:24 PM

Sounds like no fuel. While cranking white smoke should be evident at the exhaust. If not, then no fuel. Most likely the fuel cutoff. If in doubt, crack one of the injector lines and see if fuel squirts out while cranking. Go easy on the starting fluid as this can break rings and pistons if overdone.

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